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  1. #41
    Senpai Member mgsplayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luimac View Post
    well, I bash Naruto all the time although I use to love the character. As mentioned before he is the way he is because of the way he was brought up in Leaf and most people dont mind his attitude in general just his attitude being a ninja. What I mean is that he is a ninja yet he acts and prioratizes situations like a 15 year old girl in love, oh wait.. he has a 15 year old girl in love in his team that doesnt act like him... see what I mean?
    When it comes to his development, of course people will be mad... common, he trained 3 years with the man that trained the 4th and Pain... and he comes back after his training not knowing the full extent of Kagebunshin (knowledge transfer when dispell) or not even knowing about elelemtal chakra or chakra recomposition???!! Jiraya spend 3 years with 3 Rain kids WITHOUT KNOWING HOW TO EVEN MOLD THEIR CHAKRA and in that time span they ALL learned how to use elemental jutsus.
    I mean just how dumb can Kishi make Naruto. For all this things NOT to happen for Naruto during a 3 year 1 on 1 training with one of the strongest, if not the strongest, ninja and/or teacher in the Narutoverse. How can fans not be mad at Naruto lack of growth as a character and as a ninja??
    Most likely I would get flamed by this but if it wasnt for Kyuubi, because of Naruto dumbness and lack of growth, personal and professional, he would died a long time ago. I have always said that I dont consider Kyuubi a "cheat" since he has had it from birth but Kishi is pushing it... even after the true reason behind his "speed of learning" and winning is Kyuubi (Rasengan wouldnt have been learned so fast if he couldnt heal and recharge after spending all his chakra and damaging his nerves after just 1 goodnight sleep, every major battle has been won after accessing Kyuubi's chakra and of course the reason he can train like he trained to achieve Fuuton-Rasengan) Naruto not only seems but IS in fact still the same Naruto as when he was 12.... it is not only dissappointing but a little sad as well.
    Of course this is just my personal opinion ;p

    OH PS I mentioned before as soon as I saw that Naruto could possibly be the new "Chosen One", that Kishi will mess his own manga if he does. His manga has always been about hard work, to quote the manga itself, "a drop-out WILL beat a genius with hard work" and conserning destiny "it you think its impossible then dont do anything" and suddenly will changes to making Neji right, "Destiny cant be changed, everything is chosen since your born".
    i read the first 6 ot 7 lines and it's refreshing
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  2. #42
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    No kidding, but you are still missing my point. First you argued Naruto bashing is acceptable because he develops too slow. Now you argue, about the purpose and importance of Sasuke > Itachi when compare to Naruto > Sasuke chase. Which I'm not disagreeing but I see both chases as equally important, which is why Naruto needs to keep chasing Sasuke regardless the danger level involved. By the way, if Sasuke really wants Naruto killed, this isn't even the first chance he had....should flash back to 3 yrs earlier. It's the dangers of these chases that makes the plot and without it Kishimoto will have no story.

    If you think Sasuke said he is willing to kill anyone... has he really killed any random stranger during his training? I could easily pull a page where he is shown resting on top of pile of men he defeated but Orochimaru commented Sasuke for not killing them. If we are going to take what every character said literally... we'll be arguing all day.





    Again, you are missing my point here as well. Safety from moving around makes no sense to you? So now Jiraiya is dead and Naruto isn't safe anymore? Do you really think Naruto sees himself as the man one of the hour and need 24/7 protection? I don't know what you have been reading... did you noticed it's Jiraiya and Tsuande whom wanted to keep sending Naruto out on missions?

    How often do you see Naruto travel alone outside of the village? How often does Kishimoto emphasize the importance of teamwork? Safety and winning battles comes from teamwork. This has been demostrated repeatedly throughout plots and it's not because you are super strong and act solo. The solo battles we see between character are often used to illustrated each character's unqiue skills, determination, character growth or lack there of.





    Correct, you didn't state Jiraiya trained Naruto in a strict close environment but in your posts you implied them just like right now. So what is the point in having Jiraiya training Naruto if not making him stronger than everyone else?

    You need to read my earlier post again, I don't think we are asking the correct questions prior to bashing Naruto's slow development. First, his personal chakra is way off the chart. Does anyone think it's not important for Jiraiya to monitor and teach Naruto how to better control himself?

    Secondly, Naruto's semi-complete Rasengan alone was enough to defeat an Akatsuki that even Kakashi with Shikamaru's smarts wasn't enough to beat. At this story arc, Naruto has already developed a better usage of his clones to fight a mid-range fighter, do you really think Naruto still can't hold his own?

    Thirdly, Naruto's "slow" development is often compared to Sasuke's fast growth. Well, I suppose Kishimoto can pack a Sharingan eye xmas gift for all characters and so they can all grow to the same strength and pace?

    Look, Sasuke has a unique bloodline that allows him to learns faster than most characters. This has been a fact from the start and it's not going to change now that he absorbed Orochimaru. In theory, he should be stronger than Naruto and until Naruto magically gain completly control of the 9-tail inside him, Sasuke will continue to have an edge over him. Naruto's robust chakra is a big part of his strength but also his weakness when he has no control of it.
    first of all you don't seem to understand what i'm trying to say. in all my posts what i've been trying to get at is that naruto isn't an all around ninja and in order for him to become that he needs time to train. running after sasuke isn't going to help him get stronger. naruto's ulterior motive should be to get stronger but chasing sasuke is distracted him from this goal. sasuke even said it himself if you have time to chase after me you should have used it to train harder. like i said in my posts sasuke would stop or kill anyone that stands in the way of him acquiring his revenge, i mean look at orochimaru.

    sasuke already explained why he didn't kill naruto three years back and it was because he didn't want to achieve power the way itachi wanted him to gain power. also i never said anything like sasuke is willing to kill anyone. i said sasuke is willing to kill anyone that is going to stand in the way of his plans to seek revenge. sasuke has said time and again that he only cares about revenge. you are the one who needs to read my posts again since you don't seem to understand what i'm trying to say.

    don't forget that kakuzu was already half beaten before naruto used rasenshuriken to get him. if not for kakashi naruto wouldn't have been able to land the punch. don't forget naruto got kakuzu on the second try and he wouldn't have been able to get a second chance if not for kakashi. also you're forgetting that kakashi didn't use MS so you can't just assume that he couldn't have taken out kakuzu without naruto.

    again like i said earlier staying in konoha is much safer than naruto travelling. true naruto isn't gonna travel alone but with people like pein and tobi it'll only be a matter of time until naruto and co. eventually die at the hands of akatsuki. look at pein he defeated jiraiya and hanzo. look at tobi right now, he's practically playing around with 8 konoha shinobi. if tobi truly decided to go all out and fight those guys considering what we know of him don't you think that they would all be dead and naruto would already be in akatsuki's hands. if naruto is in konoha he would be on his home turf so he has the advantage also he can train there and be very safe as opposed to just running around where akatsuki could get him.

    finally true sasuke does seem to have an edge because of his sharingan but you're forgetting that naruto has kage bunshin. naruto learned kage bunshin in the first chapter yet he was unaware of the fact that you could learn from their experience. because naruto has a huge amount of chakra he can create a lot of kage bunshins so his learning process would be much faster and the effect would be similar to the sharingan. so naruto has little excuse for his slow growth. so like i said earlier you are the one that failed to read my earlier posts. so please read them before jumping to conclusions.


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  3. #43
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    on the other hand Naruto isn't the type of sitting quietly in the village training cuz someone could come and get him.

    I think that Naruto didn't just completed Rasengan after the training. I keep getting this feeling that his development there was bigger than just a new jutsu he can't use anymore. Remember when Yamato said that Kakashi was about to see a completely new Naruto? He might have been talking about KBNJ but I still think that when we get to see Naruto fighting alone next time we'll be a lil surprised.

    And in the same line as Kakashi might have defeated Kakuzu without Naruto, Naruto might have defeated Kakuzu without Kakasshi's weakening him.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draciel View Post
    And in the same line as Kakashi might have defeated Kakuzu without Naruto, Naruto might have defeated Kakuzu without Kakasshi's weakening him.
    do you really think naruto could have defeated kakuzu without kakashi weakening him. naruto tried to use rasenshuriken on a weakened kakuzu but missed and he would have died if not for kakashi and yamato. i'm pretty sure naruto would have died if he fought full strength kakuzu. don't forget kakuzu said that the last person that took out two of his hearts was the first hokage. i'm pretty sure naruto isn't hokage level so i'm going with naruto wouldn't be able to take on kakuzu.


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  5. #45
    Preacher of Haruhiism draciel's Avatar
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    the last heart could be under extreme protection to avoid death, being that the rasen-shuriken could have taken more hearts with more available and with more hearts the style of fight is different, being that he would've attacked some other way and Naruto would've KBied him in that way (not to talk the condition he was in after taking the blow).

    Plus he doesn't necessarily needs a hokage to be defeated one-on-one, even if he says so.

    But you're absolutely right Naruto messed up the first time but he could have also quickly used other techniques to get out of there (Kawarimi, KB to maneuver in mid-air) but my point was that Kakashi might have not defeated Kakuzu with the MS, which is a possibility as much as he could and as Naruto defeating Kakuzo alone and as much as not being capable of. From what we know he did needed help but only in that particular situation and every fight changes even if the terrain, opponents and conditions don't.

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  6. #46
    The End All DonMegaPLP's Avatar
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    Naruto

    Fact of the matter is, Naruto is the main character, the principle character. The manga and show are named after him. At some point we're supposed to be impressed by him through his actions or accomplishments. So far I believe the biggest impression he's left on us was his fight against Gaara. A victory that came mostly from him and not his reliance on the Kyubbi.

    His fight against Sasuke was... colorful but not so much impressive. The fight itself was awesome, but mostly a showcase for Sasuke's new power and what he was capable of. Not to mention what Naruto is capable of all juiced up on demon-fox chakra.

    The disappointment we have in Naruto comes from more than just comparing him to Sasuke, but also Sakura. To be honest Shikamaru, Neji, Kiba, and Choji back before the 3yr-jump left better impressions on me than Naruto has UP UNTIL now. I'm not doubting that what Naruto has achieved to this point is great (the number of clones he has, the range inwhich he can use them, his fuuton-rasengan and uhh... well thats about it) but it's not enough warrant praise.

    For Naruto to achieve any victory from here on out is going to mean Kishi is going to have to "bend" reality and push things in his favor... like he normally does. I believe the only real sensible thing he's done with his story so far is Naruto losing his fight against Sasuke.

  7. #47
    Full Member gray fox's Avatar
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    i never said anything abourt the steroids increasing his speed fuktard all i said is "pluss he took sterioids" it was a joke thats why the "" was there and as for the genjutsu i was saying he uses his sharingans doujutsu to cast them not his own talent as diedara commented during his fight "your mistaking the gifts of you clan as your own power" or something on those lines. the chidori nagashi is the chidori released from all over his body its a counter argument to the "naruto hasnt lernt anything new all hes done is made the rasengan bigger and added some wind chakra" that part was sarcasm and if you re read my post knowing that yourll see that we agree on pritty much everything.
    hmm i wonder what obitos doing right now.... decomposing and smelling up the joint i gess coz hes dead!!

  8. #48
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gray fox View Post
    i never said anything abourt the steroids increasing his speed fuktard all i said is "pluss he took sterioids" it was a joke thats why the "" was there and as for the genjutsu i was saying he uses his sharingans doujutsu to cast them not his own talent as diedara commented during his fight "your mistaking the gifts of you clan as your own power" or something on those lines. the chidori nagashi is the chidori released from all over his body its a counter argument to the "naruto hasnt lernt anything new all hes done is made the rasengan bigger and added some wind chakra" that part was sarcasm and if you re read my post knowing that yourll see that we agree on pritty much everything.
    well if your first post was a joke then why does this post have insults. why don't we try to refrain from insults and state our opinions like grownups. well the only problem i have with your post is that you're saying sasuke doesn't use his own talents to cast genjutsu but rather relies on his sharingan. well if that's so then that also means that itachi has no talent in genjutsu as well. it's really all in his sharingan. c'mon give sasuke some credit. he trained with orochimaru for 3 years there's no way he would come out of that training empty handed.

    don't you think that the reason why deidara said that sasuke was nothing without his sharingan was cuz he hated itachi and the sharingan. if you remember before deidara blew himself up he said something along the lines of you and your accursed brother have eyes that show no appretiation for my art. eyes that look down on my creations. his problem with sasuke and itachi was that he thought they were really cocky cuz of their sharingan.


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  9. #49
    Full Member gray fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaidenlive22 View Post
    well if your first post was a joke then why does this post have insults. why don't we try to refrain from insults and state our opinions like grownups. well the only problem i have with your post is that you're saying sasuke doesn't use his own talents to cast genjutsu but rather relies on his sharingan. well if that's so then that also means that itachi has no talent in genjutsu as well. it's really all in his sharingan. c'mon give sasuke some credit. he trained with orochimaru for 3 years there's no way he would come out of that training empty handed.

    don't you think that the reason why deidara said that sasuke was nothing without his sharingan was cuz he hated itachi and the sharingan. if you remember before deidara blew himself up he said something along the lines of you and your accursed brother have eyes that show no appretiation for my art. eyes that look down on my creations. his problem with sasuke and itachi was that he thought they were really cocky cuz of their sharingan.
    yes it is one of the reasons but itachi is a genjutsu type he uses his fingers and the crow jutsu to cast genjutsu sasuke just uses doujutsu but i gess it can be exsplained by the fact that he was barly more talented at chakra control than naruto thats all i am saying about it and sorry for the insult:(.
    i have given sasuke credit on his speed and intelegence because there what hes good at like i gave naruto credit for his power and sakura credit for her chakra control, oh and the thing about new jutsu was a response to a comment about naruto on the first page.
    hmm i wonder what obitos doing right now.... decomposing and smelling up the joint i gess coz hes dead!!

  10. #50
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Bunch of haters, that's all i gotta say. Just try to enjoy the manga, it's a great story. There's a reason why kishimoto has chosen to make naruto the underdog. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing.

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