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  1. #11
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaros536 View Post
    Its not Wb's fault that people died after his death,nor could he had stopped it.You're being completely unreasonable here.Is protecting millions of people not a great thing?Is creating a new era not a great thing?Is ruling the seas not a great thing?How can you possibly say a man who did all that wasted his life?

    You just think that Wb could have done even greater things,but that doesnt change the fact that he did great things and altered the world.
    He wasted it because the things he could had done far outweigh anything he did, also I don't think he created a Era, I think he just renewed the era Roger started by inspiring a new generation of would-be pirates to take to the sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by halaros536 View Post
    No,he couldnt.And Wb wouldnt be able to move an army strong enough to fight the whole WG without them noticing it.

    You dont even know if he had any special information or proof about the WQG's evil plans or shit like that.He only knew from his persoinal experience that the WG is corrupted but thats not something you can just tell others and make them believe it or make them revolt.
    Dragon moves entire armies and convinces people to rebel against WG, Whitebeard could too, except unlike Dragon Whitebeard had one of the strongest DF's known (able to destroy entire islands), conquerors haki, plus was acknowledged and the worlds strongest man - you are correct that he may not have had 'special' information, but he most certainly knew about Buster Calls/experiments/torture and it wouldn't be a shock if he knew a bit about how the WG was formed.

    (he must had known something because he knew One Piece held something WG doesn't want to get out and 'people will find it one day' - which then made Sengoku angry)
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  2. #12
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    "Wasted" is a strong word. WB being a "failure" is more debatable coz WB did try. Failed in the end but attempted to do something big so It's not a waste of life or by the way I see what you are trying to say is a waste of his full potential as a pirate. Wasting one's life is doing nothing productive or anything worth mentioning.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Zafran's Avatar
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    whitebeard is A pirate. he lived his life the way HE wanted. he was in no obligation to go out of his way and save the world tbh.
    he, being the great pirate he is, protected towns and islands that he liked OR had friends in it, he was friends with neptune on FI.
    the fact that he could have done more, doenst mean he should've.
    and when comparing him with dragon and his army. they are rebels. rebels are anti-government. thats why you see them attacking the WG and planning against them.
    Pirates just dont care.

  4. #14
    Master of Bludging ChaosMaster's Avatar
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    TLR... some of it. Lolz, now I know how some people feel when they read my post.

    On topic though, WB didn't waste his life. However, he did fail, although it was most likely out of his control. Here's my reasoning:
    -WB wanted to make Ace PK, and have him complete Roger's dream.
    -WB, in the past few years, hadn't been very active, as shown by the civilians discussion when the war was announced.
    -The reason for this, was because he was having Ace move about to spread more reputation. Ace was shown recruiting Squadro which confirms this.
    -WB had intended to die at the war from the get and go. The reason is simple, to start a new age, the old one must end. He had intended for Ace to take over as Captain, then go out and rule the seas.
    -Ace was the one thing that didn't go to plan, falling to Akainu's stupid taunts. Which pretty much screwed everything up.
    -WB started a new age with his death, but in the process, he saved Luffy, and passed on Roger and Ace's will to him through creating unrest around the world, to keep the WG busy from concentrating on hunting Luffy.

    Had Ace not been so stupid, the territories that were WB's would have fallen to him, and possibly spread to taking over all the seas. I mean Shanks himself was part of Roger's crew, that and the fact that his friends with Luffy, Ace's brother, means that they were very likely to join forces in some way. WB had all the connections, e.g. Neptune and Jimbei meant that the fishmen would have been on Ace's side.

    Also note that WB had no reason to take out the WG after Ace's death. I mean sure, with him gone, islands that were under his protection would be targetted, but that's only a small amount. With the WG gone, all the worlds islands would be under unrest, not to mention his not a D, nor does he carry the will of D, he best protect those who do (in other words Luffy).

  5. #15
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    Of course not, he open a new century of Pirate, and it will lead more and more people to search for the freedom, the truth of this world!
    火影忍者 狐忍

  6. #16
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosMaster View Post
    TLR... some of it. Lolz, now I know how some people feel when they read my post.

    On topic though, WB didn't waste his life. However, he did fail, although it was most likely out of his control. Here's my reasoning:
    -WB wanted to make Ace PK, and have him complete Roger's dream.
    -WB, in the past few years, hadn't been very active, as shown by the civilians discussion when the war was announced.
    -The reason for this, was because he was having Ace move about to spread more reputation. Ace was shown recruiting Squadro which confirms this.
    -WB had intended to die at the war from the get and go. The reason is simple, to start a new age, the old one must end. He had intended for Ace to take over as Captain, then go out and rule the seas.
    -Ace was the one thing that didn't go to plan, falling to Akainu's stupid taunts. Which pretty much screwed everything up.
    -WB started a new age with his death, but in the process, he saved Luffy, and passed on Roger and Ace's will to him through creating unrest around the world, to keep the WG busy from concentrating on hunting Luffy.

    Had Ace not been so stupid, the territories that were WB's would have fallen to him, and possibly spread to taking over all the seas. I mean Shanks himself was part of Roger's crew, that and the fact that his friends with Luffy, Ace's brother, means that they were very likely to join forces in some way. WB had all the connections, e.g. Neptune and Jimbei meant that the fishmen would have been on Ace's side.

    Also note that WB had no reason to take out the WG after Ace's death. I mean sure, with him gone, islands that were under his protection would be targetted, but that's only a small amount. With the WG gone, all the worlds islands would be under unrest, not to mention his not a D, nor does he carry the will of D, he best protect those who do (in other words Luffy).
    So this post covers a lot of things, and paragraph form makes no sense so I'm going to do the bullets like you did and hopefully respond to each one.
    -But why? Ace would never had been Whitebeards equal, not to mention Whitebeard most likely didn't even know about Ace being Rogers son until after Ace was already in the NW - so that was like 18-20YEARS after Roger died.
    -And that's why I say his life is wasted, he was so powerful yet he was inactive, even if he didn't take the WG down, he could had done more with strengthening the islands under his command, we know he didn't do anything like that because the turmoil that happened when he died.
    -But that still doesn't account for the 15years+ when he didn't even know Roger had a son (and unless Garp told him, he couldn't have known since Ace's mother died giving birth and Roger told Garp in secret)
    -But this future never had to happen, before Roger died he offered WB the way to Raftel and thus One Piece, Whitebeard at the time was still relatively young (maybe 40) yet he didn't do anything... and of course he would had died eventually but he could had done so much more while he was healthy/younger.
    -I think I answered this bullet.
    -I don't think he started a new age, rather inspired a new generation, those are not the same things

    Still, thats only IF Whitebeard knew about Ace before Ace was a NW Pirate... And I doubt he did, Roger wouldn't had let something like him having a son slip out to anyone considering the WG was committing infanticide on those islands he visited unless he was planning to give the baby to Whitebeard - and there's no way WB would had turned down Rogers son (considering how he was about family) yet despite that, Roger gave Ace to Garp.

    Quote Originally Posted by luluxiu View Post
    Of course not, he open a new century of Pirate, and it will lead more and more people to search for the freedom, the truth of this world!
    People keep saying this, but Whitebeard did not start a new age, at most he extended the Pirate Age that Roger started by inspiring a new generation to take to the sea... but that's not the same as starting a 'new' pirate age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zafran View Post
    whitebeard is A pirate. he lived his life the way HE wanted. he was in no obligation to go out of his way and save the world tbh.
    OK so, this is the best arguement I've seen about WB not wasting his life, he was a pirate and did the shit he wanted regardless what was right or wrong..

    I and would be fine with that if he was a guy like BB, but WB was shown to be a generally goodly person - he protected islands and asked for nothing in return and because he did that I say he could/should had done more with his life/powers.
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  7. #17
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    -But why? Ace would never had been Whitebeards equal, not to mention Whitebeard most likely didn't even know about Ace being Rogers son until after Ace was already in the NW - so that was like 18-20YEARS after Roger died.

    -But that still doesn't account for the 15years+ when he didn't even know Roger had a son (and unless Garp told him, he couldn't have known since Ace's mother died giving birth and Roger told Garp in secret)
    -But this future never had to happen, before Roger died he offered WB the way to Raftel and thus One Piece, Whitebeard at the time was still relatively young (maybe 40) yet he didn't do anything... and of course he would had died eventually but he could had done so much more while he was healthy/younger.

    Still, thats only IF Whitebeard knew about Ace before Ace was a NW Pirate... And I doubt he did, Roger wouldn't had let something like him having a son slip out to anyone considering the WG was committing infanticide on those islands he visited unless he was planning to give the baby to Whitebeard - and there's no way WB would had turned down Rogers son (considering how he was about family) yet despite that, Roger gave Ace to Garp
    I'll answer this one since I think I'm the one who brought up this idea.

    First of all, Ace has the potential to be WB's equal. He's the son of the PK after all. So why Ace? Because he is a D. Actually WB just adopted Ace mainly because he just wanted to. Being a D just presented itself.

    So why being a D is important? If we study the conversation of Roger and WB plus the things WB said in the war before he died, we can conclude that not anyone can be the PK or at least not anyone can be what Roger was waiting for. Roger wanted a D. Let's break it down.

    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...6/page011.html
    Roger asked WB if he wanted to know to go to Raftel. WB declined as he never wanted to go anyway so Roger just told him why is the WG trying to hide that he's a D.

    http://read.mangashare.com/One-Piece...6/page012.html

    So Roger told WB who was he waiting. Roger waits for the men who carries his will who has been passed down to Ace and now to Luffy. He's simply talking about the will of the D. Something that BB doesn't have even though he's a D himself. Therefore WB can't be PK so instead he wanted to guide Ace to be one. Knowing whether Ace is the son of Roger or not is irrelevant. WB just wanted a D who is carrying the will. Ace being directly the son of Roger was just a bonus. Same thing why Shank sacrificed his arm for Luffy. He wanted him to be the PK one day.

    Now back on topic.. uhmm I'll let CM answer that.

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  8. #18
    Buzzzz recklesmayhem's Avatar
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    Whitebeard didn't do anything to reveal the true nature of the World Government because it is not his place to do so.

    Whitebeard exposing the government as the 'evil-doers' of the world is like criminals saying that the police are the 'real criminals'... first of all, people wouldn't believe it because they wouldn't want to believe it and they were brought up trusting the WG and the Marines. You just can't instantly change someones mind.
    That's why you see Dragon and thr revolutionaries continuously opposing the WG but never really try to expose them. The revolutionarys only go around helping and saving people.

    Maybe the WG isn't really the evil ones. They're methods and the things they might do may seem evil to us and to them but in the end of they day, they are 'justice' in the world of OP and that will not change. Pirates will always be seen as scum and the evil-doers as long as things go the way they are going.

    People praise the WG and the Marines but cower in fear when they hear the names of pirates.

    Even if the pirates were to go on another full on, all out war with the government and navy... things still will not change, even if the navy does lose.

    Whitebeard did not waste his life, he simply enjoyed it and lived the way he wanted to live. He had everything he needed. plus he was a clever man, he wouldn't just go running around various islands shouting 'the WG and Marines are evil!'
    Buzzzz

  9. #19
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    I'll answer this one since I think I'm the one who brought up this idea.

    First of all, Ace has the potential to be WB's equal. He's the son of the PK after all. So why Ace? Because he is a D. Actually WB just adopted Ace mainly because he just wanted to. Being a D just presented itself.

    So why being a D is important? If we study the conversation of Roger and WB plus the things WB said in the war before he died, we can conclude that not anyone can be the PK or at least not anyone can be what Roger was waiting for. Roger wanted a D. Let's break it down.
    Yeah, I don't buy this, first off, Ace had a strong DF for sure, but WB's DF alone put him in a class above anyone who could be his physical equal .. and that's something else, I doubt a Logia would ever be WB's physical equal, When Ace fought BB the comment was made how surprised Ace was by being hit and how much it hurt.. So obviously WB/Marco were not trying to train Ace to become stronger.

    Also I don't think Roger cared much a 'D' finding One Piece, after all he offered it to WB - you may say "well, it wasn't in WB's personality to want it" but that's not the point, if WB had asked for it Roger would had given it to him.

    And Pirate King is just a title, anyone with the drive can get it, and in One Piece it seems peoples "will" is reborn when they die - even if WB didn't have the 'Will of D' he obviously had a very very strong Will.

    Spoiler!


    For the whole first part of your comment all I have to say is 'Rodney King' - you say people will always believe in the establishment but here was a case were ONE guy got abused by the system and basically all of Los Angeles started a riot, killing like 50people and injuring thousands (not to mention the looting/arson).

    Now what the WG in OPverse does is much worse then what the L.A.P.D did (Not saying the officers were innocent, obviously they all should had went to jail) not to mention the WG isn't like 1 country, its more like a Empire but not like a normal Empire, because it has at least hundreds of countries in it, and EACH country and its own King/Army/Navy with little WG oversight.

    Say.. only 1/3 of the Kings are like Cobra and are goodly, if they all left the WG would be powerless to do anything about it since from all we know right now the WG is powerless to stomp out Dragon and the new governments he helps install.

    I agree he wouldn't have to run island to island shouting "WG and Marines are evil" he could find the proof, hell, Luffy has been on the ocean (minus training time) for *maybe* 8-9months and he's already encountered so much, who knows what WB knew about the WG but it had to be something important because Sengoku looked scared when WB mentioned someone would find One Piece.
    Last edited by Airicks; 06-13-2012 at 09:36 PM.
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  10. #20
    Master of Bludging ChaosMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    So this post covers a lot of things, and paragraph form makes no sense so I'm going to do the bullets like you did and hopefully respond to each one.
    -But why? Ace would never had been Whitebeards equal, not to mention Whitebeard most likely didn't even know about Ace being Rogers son until after Ace was already in the NW - so that was like 18-20YEARS after Roger died.
    -And that's why I say his life is wasted, he was so powerful yet he was inactive, even if he didn't take the WG down, he could had done more with strengthening the islands under his command, we know he didn't do anything like that because the turmoil that happened when he died.
    -But that still doesn't account for the 15years+ when he didn't even know Roger had a son (and unless Garp told him, he couldn't have known since Ace's mother died giving birth and Roger told Garp in secret)
    -But this future never had to happen, before Roger died he offered WB the way to Raftel and thus One Piece, Whitebeard at the time was still relatively young (maybe 40) yet he didn't do anything... and of course he would had died eventually but he could had done so much more while he was healthy/younger.
    -I think I answered this bullet.
    -I don't think he started a new age, rather inspired a new generation, those are not the same things

    Still, thats only IF Whitebeard knew about Ace before Ace was a NW Pirate... And I doubt he did, Roger wouldn't had let something like him having a son slip out to anyone considering the WG was committing infanticide on those islands he visited unless he was planning to give the baby to Whitebeard - and there's no way WB would had turned down Rogers son (considering how he was about family) yet despite that, Roger gave Ace to Garp.
    Sorry about late reply, exam period so a lot of head in book type stuff… that and D3.

    Back on topic
    One thing I notice you keep mentioning is that WB didn’t know of Ace’s existence before he came into the Grand Line. And it’s true, he didn’t. But how does that go against WB wanting to make Ace PK? I mean:
    -WB has been waiting for one carrying the Will of D to come (which most likely is the will to overthrow the Celestial Dragons, void period, that kinda stuff).
    -Ace carry’s the name D. Which is why even before Ace revealed his identity as Rogers’s son, WB recruited him. I mean seriously, why else would WB be so persistant with keeping Ace on his ship when the guy kept trying to assassinate him.
    -WB was said to be inactive in the last few years, which are the few years after he recruited Ace. If he had been totally inactive over the decades, who would still know of him? Don’t forget, the people who were talking weren’t old people, they were middle aged to young.
    -WB was the one who started the taking over islands thing. He protected islands all around the grand line and new world with just his name. He made a difference to so many people’s lives. How is that a waste?
    -WB was only taking over islands in trouble, in need of help from pirates that were brought out through Roger’s words. He was continuing Roger’s will in a way. The reason that he doesn’t have total control over the sea’s, one could argue, is because unlike Big Mom and possibly Kaidou, he didn’t force those island/countries under him. Places like Alabastra B.C (before Croc) were peaceful places, with a fair government and a strong justice system. Those places didn’t need his help so he didn’t offer it.
    -WB didn’t want to take over all the sea’s and islands, it’s not his job, it’s the job of the D’s.
    -As mentioned in my previous post, WB went to the war ready to die. He went to save Ace. He went to end his era. HE DIDN’T’ GO TO WIPE OUT THE WG. He knows that if he did so, the world would go under havoc. Don’t forget that he protects only ΒΌ of the NW, but the WG protects all islands on all 4 seas, the grand line and the NW. There may be some corrupt Marines going around the majority are there for justice. Not to mention his death would have been insignificant by comparison if Ace had survived and became Captain, like he had originally planned (reason stated/proven in previous post).

    Summary:
    So basically put, in the past 15 years or so, B.A (before Ace), WB was carrying out Roger’s will. He was protecting islands that needed protection. He was waiting for a D carrier to come out (other than BB who then seemed unambitious).

    When Ace came out, he instantly recruited him, because he was a D carrier. And when he learnt of Ace’s bloodline, he made preps to push Ace to become PK.

    WB never had any intent on taking out the WG because he knew it would bring more chaos into the world that anything else.

    All his plans went down the sink because Ace was stupid, luckily he had Luffy as a backup.

    God this is getting long again.

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