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  1. #21
    The Patriot Kendoki's Avatar
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    Like sealing matters anyways.

    It's not a battle of "Who can seal the Kyuubi better."

    I'm just saying that Jiraiya and Orochimaru both did seal it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendoki View Post
    Like sealing matters anyways.

    It's not a battle of "Who can seal the Kyuubi better."

    I'm just saying that Jiraiya and Orochimaru both did seal it.
    i see your point but what i was trying to state in my posts was that orochimaru and jiraiya have been in some similar situations and looking at the end results jiraiya came out on top. i'm just using that as some evidence to justify why jiraiya is stronger. i think it was afrothunda that said this a while ago orochimaru was pretty strong until he started switching bodies.


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  3. #23
    The Patriot Kendoki's Avatar
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    We didn't see 4-tails vs Jiraiya though.

    All we know is that Jiraiya got his chest all fucked up. We can't say that just because Orochimaru lost an arm (which he gained back) and Jiraiya got scars then Jiraiya > Orochimaru.

  4. #24
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendoki View Post
    We didn't see 4-tails vs Jiraiya though.

    All we know is that Jiraiya got his chest all fucked up. We can't say that just because Orochimaru lost an arm (which he gained back) and Jiraiya got scars then Jiraiya > Orochimaru.
    ok you make a good point. maybe we can't use the encounter with the 4 tails for both jiraiya and orochimaru as good evidence. but we can still use their encounters with itachi as evidence. in orochimaru's case he got pwned, but in jiraiya's case itachi didn't want to fight cuz he realized the cost of him potentially winning were too great even with the help of kisame. true orochimaru knew a lot of jutsus and as a result was bound to know a lot of kinjutsus but i think the same can go for jiraiya.

    i mean he was traveling around the world there's no way he wouldn't have picked up some nifty jutsus. i say if they were both gonna fight jiraiya would win cuz of that genjutsu that pa and ma used. it's probably really hard to dispel and it can't be avoided either.


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  5. #25
    The Patriot Kendoki's Avatar
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    I think the whole Itachi and Kisame avoiding Jiraiya thing was just bollocks.

    Honestly; if Itachi and Kisame aren't enough to take on Jiraiya, then that totally throws Jiraiya's strength out the window. His fight with Orochimaru during the search for Tsunade would have ended much quicker, and would also mean that Pein is uber-unbeatable.

  6. #26
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendoki View Post
    I think the whole Itachi and Kisame avoiding Jiraiya thing was just bollocks.

    Honestly; if Itachi and Kisame aren't enough to take on Jiraiya, then that totally throws Jiraiya's strength out the window. His fight with Orochimaru during the search for Tsunade would have ended much quicker, and would also mean that Pein is uber-unbeatable.
    hmm...theoretically pein is pretty unbeatable as long as you don't know his secret. like i said earlier the reason why orochimaru got pwned by itachi was the way he intended on defeating itachi. he used genjutsu and from what we know itachi excels in that so orochimaru was screwed from the beginning. i guess in a way it does make sense. i mean they were both in akatsuki so there's a chance that itachi was familiar with orochimaru's style of fighting.

    but jiraiya on the other hand is a different case. itachi most likely had no idea of how he fought so he calculated that in the worst case scenario even though he and kisame fought jiraiya they would either win and be badly injured or they would die as well as jiraiya. but i guess we could debate on this topic as long as we can and still not get a precise answer since there really isn't too much solid evidence to state who's stronger.


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  7. #27
    Out his mind pranabowjake's Avatar
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    oro would probably win, if their all at full power. oro didnt have a real body so even if he did the genjitsu, assuming oro let it go off since he could edo tensai to make it a 3 or 4 on 1 fight. + oro`s poison. if he wasnt in such a weakend state sasuke couldn`t have beaten him. although in a 1v1 fight itachi would probably come out on top against jiraiya since he could use mangikyo. when they were going into that area they had to make sure to perserve naruto and he was already close to his limits due to travel and using it once before in a time close to it. oro is heavy ninjitsu based which is why he couldnt beat itachi, and if jiraiya sticks to heavy taijitsu it will be close to the same. look back at the naruto v sasuke fight, even though naruto was superior in power and speed, the sharingan could still predict his moves and naruto`s regular taijitsu was no match.

    in the end at full power i belive oro is the strongest of the three. although due to all the forbiden jitsu`s oro has been working on, his body has probably been really weak ever since him and jiraiya faced off the last time, at which time oro won.

    also take into account, acording to kakashi, using the sharingan`s strongest abilities makes you go blind, which would be a reason itachi would be hesatent to use it unless he had too, which would be the case if he fought jiraiya, but the paralizing effect of mangikyo + black flame = game over for anyone in a one on one, but this only counts if he has the power to do it at the time, and he`s not already blind. doubt he will use anything like that against sasuke since he wants to fight sasuke at his strongest and if he just burned him down at the start, he wasted all that time he let him live.
    i`m just waiting on the twist..."i`m a good guy" lol dont see it happening, but ya never know itachi could throw it out there.

    i guess this got a bit out of hand, since itachi v jiraiya is all theory and not even apart of this topic. jiraiya v oro happened, a few times. the first one that we know of, not counting any one when they were still on the same team, was oro leaving the leaf and jiraiya trying to stop him, at which time they were both very powerful since this is post sannin time, and oro won that fight. the next time was a weakend oro, who was even weaker than normal because he lost his arms v a poisoned jiraiya and fearful tsunade. oro still held his own despite the numbers against him and handycaps. so in the end if they were both at max power during their lifetime, which i think the first fight represented, oro would win
    Last edited by pranabowjake; 12-23-2007 at 05:36 AM. Reason: itachi

  8. #28
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    jiraiya would have one the fight with pain, temporarily at least, had he not underestimated the summoner by cutting off his arms
    that was jiraiya's only serious fight we saw
    i can't say we have ever seen a serious orochimaru fight
    the guy seems to think he's better than all others, so he just merely messes around with them... if he was going all out against the third, thats just pitiful

    "oro didnt have a real body so even if he did the genjutsu, assuming oro let it go off since he could edo tensai to make it a 3 or 4 on 1 fight. + oro`s poison"
    i have no clue what ur saying
    oro has a mind, and so genjutsu will have an effect
    edo tensei requires a tag to inserted into the summoned bodies to make them into puppets essentially.. meaning, oro must use his brain to control the bodies to some extent, otherwise they would just remain motionless as they did before the tag is even inserted
    besides, edo tensei summons must have a brain too since the former hokages recognized the third and spoke to him a little... the souls of the hokages simply took over the bodies of the ppl oro sacrificed

    anyways, that genjutsu the two old toads do would always take down orochimaru
    i just don't see how u could get around that
    plus, i think orochimaru takes that snake form only when he is going to do the eternal youth technique, but if he did manage to take that form without repercussions, then i suppose that could be the fall of jiraiya
    i don't see anything else working

    that three sannin battling out was not a serious battle
    both oro and jiraiya were just talking
    plus, jiraiya hasn't approached orochimaru seriously in a fight because of their friendship
    like the initial attitude of third was i don't want to kill oro
    but then he realized oro dies or konoha dies
    if a battle escalated to a level of this magnitude, then oro and jiraiya might go at it for reals

    but even then, they seem to keep as many of their techniques hidden as possible
    notice, jiraiya had ample time to pull of a whole bunch of crazy techniques on orochimaru, as did orochimaru on jiraiya
    both of their most powerful forms or techniques never came out

    if it was a game of endurance or strength, jiraiya would win
    if it was a game of wits, orochimaru would win
    any battle between them would probably be decided on how much thought is required for the win
    i think, orochimaru being himself, would underestimate jiraiya and try to just mess around for a while until getting serious... if orochimaru makes the battle require more mental usage, then he will win at this point... otherwise he would lose
    hermit mode definitely would overwhelm orochimaru
    i get the feeling that jiraiya has a chakra storing technique like tsunade using that stuff on his face
    nevertheless, summoning those two toads would end the battle
    summons would be useless
    genjutsu would be gameover
    there's rasengan
    crazy hair

    i think they could throw ninjutsu at each other forever
    its just a matter of whether hermit mode is used or not
    or if oro goes into snaky mode (unlikely)

  9. #29
    Senior Member iron_maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pranabowjake View Post
    oro would probably win, if their all at full power. oro didnt have a real body so even if he did the genjitsu, assuming oro let it go off since he could edo tensai to make it a 3 or 4 on 1 fight. + oro`s poison. if he wasnt in such a weakend state sasuke couldn`t have beaten him. although in a 1v1 fight itachi would probably come out on top against jiraiya since he could use mangikyo. when they were going into that area they had to make sure to perserve naruto and he was already close to his limits due to travel and using it once before in a time close to it. oro is heavy ninjitsu based which is why he couldnt beat itachi, and if jiraiya sticks to heavy taijitsu it will be close to the same. look back at the naruto v sasuke fight, even though naruto was superior in power and speed, the sharingan could still predict his moves and naruto`s regular taijitsu was no match.

    in the end at full power i belive oro is the strongest of the three. although due to all the forbiden jitsu`s oro has been working on, his body has probably been really weak ever since him and jiraiya faced off the last time, at which time oro won.

    also take into account, acording to kakashi, using the sharingan`s strongest abilities makes you go blind, which would be a reason itachi would be hesatent to use it unless he had too, which would be the case if he fought jiraiya, but the paralizing effect of mangikyo + black flame = game over for anyone in a one on one, but this only counts if he has the power to do it at the time, and he`s not already blind. doubt he will use anything like that against sasuke since he wants to fight sasuke at his strongest and if he just burned him down at the start, he wasted all that time he let him live.
    i`m just waiting on the twist..."i`m a good guy" lol dont see it happening, but ya never know itachi could throw it out there.

    i guess this got a bit out of hand, since itachi v jiraiya is all theory and not even apart of this topic. jiraiya v oro happened, a few times. the first one that we know of, not counting any one when they were still on the same team, was oro leaving the leaf and jiraiya trying to stop him, at which time they were both very powerful since this is post sannin time, and oro won that fight. the next time was a weakend oro, who was even weaker than normal because he lost his arms v a poisoned jiraiya and fearful tsunade. oro still held his own despite the numbers against him and handycaps. so in the end if they were both at max power during their lifetime, which i think the first fight represented, oro would win
    i'm guessing by saying oro didn't have a real body you're referring to him being in the snake form. well let me ask you this question if oro went into snake form wouldn't he be a sitting duck. the purpose of that form was for oro's transmigration jutsus nothing else. in that form he isn't able to do any jutsus. also just because he's in snake form doesn't mean that he can't be affected by jiraiya's genjutsu. remember jiraiya said that the genjutsu affects your senses. so orochimaru will be screwed cuz that's a really powerful genjutsu. also the genjutsus would also have similar effects on the edo tensei summons.

    remember gai said that in order to counter the sharingan's genjutsu abilities all you had to do was not look into the sharingan users eye. that way jiraiya can counter the genjutsus of MS. chances are if itachi were to fight jiraiya he would probably have to resort to using the MS in order to come out on top but the since the risks are too much he would back down.

    though the first time jiraiya and orochimaru fought they were considered sannin but that doesn't mean there wasn't any room for improvement. just cuz they were considered sannin didn't mean they couldn't get any stronger. also just cuz jiraiya lost to orochimaru then doesn't mean he can never defeat orochimaru. here's something you should take into account. during their battle jiraiya still considered orochimaru his friend so chances are he held back during that battle.

    well do you call orochimaru getting seriously pummeled by tsunade holding his own during the battle of the three sannin. do you consider him running away and saying he had another way of healing himself a sign of him holding his own. you do realize that the only reason orochimaru survived that ordeal was cuz he was in a young body. they were all handicapped but in the end orochimaru lost fare and square.


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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pranabowjake View Post
    oro would probably win, if their all at full power. oro didnt have a real body so even if he did the genjitsu, assuming oro let it go off since he could edo tensai to make it a 3 or 4 on 1 fight. + oro`s poison. if he wasnt in such a weakend state sasuke couldn`t have beaten him. although in a 1v1 fight itachi would probably come out on top against jiraiya since he could use mangikyo. when they were going into that area they had to make sure to perserve naruto and he was already close to his limits due to travel and using it once before in a time close to it. oro is heavy ninjitsu based which is why he couldnt beat itachi, and if jiraiya sticks to heavy taijitsu it will be close to the same. look back at the naruto v sasuke fight, even though naruto was superior in power and speed, the sharingan could still predict his moves and naruto`s regular taijitsu was no match.

    in the end at full power i belive oro is the strongest of the three. although due to all the forbiden jitsu`s oro has been working on, his body has probably been really weak ever since him and jiraiya faced off the last time, at which time oro won.

    also take into account, acording to kakashi, using the sharingan`s strongest abilities makes you go blind, which would be a reason itachi would be hesatent to use it unless he had too, which would be the case if he fought jiraiya, but the paralizing effect of mangikyo + black flame = game over for anyone in a one on one, but this only counts if he has the power to do it at the time, and he`s not already blind. doubt he will use anything like that against sasuke since he wants to fight sasuke at his strongest and if he just burned him down at the start, he wasted all that time he let him live.
    i`m just waiting on the twist..."i`m a good guy" lol dont see it happening, but ya never know itachi could throw it out there.

    i guess this got a bit out of hand, since itachi v jiraiya is all theory and not even apart of this topic. jiraiya v oro happened, a few times. the first one that we know of, not counting any one when they were still on the same team, was oro leaving the leaf and jiraiya trying to stop him, at which time they were both very powerful since this is post sannin time, and oro won that fight. the next time was a weakend oro, who was even weaker than normal because he lost his arms v a poisoned jiraiya and fearful tsunade. oro still held his own despite the numbers against him and handycaps. so in the end if they were both at max power during their lifetime, which i think the first fight represented, oro would win
    the only reason oro won that fight was because jiraiya was trying to bring him back to the village while oro didnt care and was trying to kill.

    also i think this was before all his travels where he becamse much stronger.

    also i think that it was because of this failure and minatos death that he became much stronger to protect those that he cared about.

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