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  1. #41
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    With his medical skills, he could heal and save people and with his ET, he could reunite people, allow people to say their goodbyes and lift off their regrets. In a sense, a Sage of Life & Death.
    in regards to healing, yes, but as for reuniting, no, ET still requires Human sacrifice (Unless you want to use criminals or something like that).
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off


  2. #42
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggeroff View Post
    in regards to healing, yes, but as for reuniting, no, ET still requires Human sacrifice (Unless you want to use criminals or something like that).
    Not really, I mean the sacrifice is a mean to create a new, battle ready with instant recovery, container for the soul that was summoned. The basic thing that ET does, is summon a soul from the Pure World. It's possible that they can be put into a different non-alive container, but then they are stripped of their fighting capabilities.

    Although, even if we assume that the body and life of the sacrifice, is meant to create a new container for the coming soul, it's possible that the soul can be summoned to the Impure World, only through exchanging places with the sacrifice's soul. Basically, the sacrificed person's soul and the soul from Pure World, swap their places.


    Kamui, Izanagi, Izanami, Tobi's Phasing jutsu... is it me or are Uchiha's most powerful (Sharingan based) jutsu related to altering time and space ?



  3. #43
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Not really, I mean the sacrifice is a mean to create a new, battle ready with instant recovery, container for the soul that was summoned. The basic thing that ET does, is summon a soul from the Pure World. It's possible that they can be put into a different non-alive container, but then they are stripped of their fighting capabilities.

    Although, even if we assume that the body and life of the sacrifice, is meant to create a new container for the coming soul, it's possible that the soul can be summoned to the Impure World, only through exchanging places with the sacrifice's soul. Basically, the sacrificed person's soul and the soul from Pure World, swap their places.


    Kamui, Izanagi, Izanami, Tobi's Phasing jutsu... is it me or are Uchiha's most powerful (Sharingan based) jutsu related to altering time and space ?
    1) We have no indication in the Manga that ET is even possible without the presence of a living sacrifice. That is not to say that King Kishimoto can't just write it in on a whim if he so desires.

    2) Yes,Yes, Yes. The Sharingan has very strong Space-Time abilities.

    BUT, to be more precise, the Sharingan's powers are Spiritual powers. In other words, Sharingan powers deal with thought and imagination, and things that are seen and or conceived mentally, that are then given a temporary manifestation on the physical plane. This is where Tobi's description of Izanagi and SO6P Izanagi becomes explanatory.

    If you look at susanoo, it is an imaginary construct given a temporary (if formidable) substance by the Sharingan, and the sharingan user's chakra. but it fades and returns to nothingness when the user stops concentrating on sustaining it. The SO6P on the other hand could manifest a Susanoo that would remain a permanent part of the physical world.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Sasuke being now under Kotoamatsukami would give answer to a couple of mysteries:

    - When the Ushiha went to the cave, why did we see a dead crow? -->That was the Sishui crow. Itashi destroys it after using it.
    - How The Ushiha ended up so strangely in the cave? -->There is no cave.
    - Why Kabuto is now in a cave while the hide-out from where he controlled the edos looked different? -->There is no cave.
    - Why Sasuke is so useless while he was excellent before (best at school, so good that Oro preferred him to the child of destiny, he took down danzo, etc, he's powered up with Itashi's eyes and was supposed to be more powerful than ever)? -->Because what he does now is what Itashi decides he does.
    - Why Sasuke doesn't react to Itashi's statement that he put him under Kotoamatsukami (Sasuke is supposed to go crazzy: "what? Do did that? When was it? What did you make me do?"). --> Because Itashi controls his thought, so he's avoiding Sasuke saying and even thinking that.

  5. #45
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    FFS, Sasuke isn't actually under Koto Amatsukami. Itachi was just talking about the jutsu he implanted in Naruto.

  6. #46
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    Sasuke being now under Kotoamatsukami would give answer to a couple of mysteries:

    - When the Ushiha went to the cave, why did we see a dead crow? -->That was the Sishui crow. Itashi destroys it after using it.
    - How The Ushiha ended up so strangely in the cave? -->There is no cave.
    - Why Kabuto is now in a cave while the hide-out from where he controlled the edos looked different? -->There is no cave.
    - Why Sasuke is so useless while he was excellent before (best at school, so good that Oro preferred him to the child of destiny, he took down danzo, etc, he's powered up with Itashi's eyes and was supposed to be more powerful than ever)? -->Because what he does now is what Itashi decides he does.
    - Why Sasuke doesn't react to Itashi's statement that he put him under Kotoamatsukami (Sasuke is supposed to go crazzy: "what? Do did that? When was it? What did you make me do?"). --> Because Itashi controls his thought, so he's avoiding Sasuke saying and even thinking that.
    It could be if..months of writing, Kabuto sub-plot and resolution, and the question of why Shisui had three sharingans are all ignored.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Jean-Marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    FFS, Sasuke isn't actually under Koto Amatsukami. Itachi was just talking about the jutsu he implanted in Naruto.
    You wrote that already. And I wrote it myself before you as a possible option. Instead of writing several time the same thing you should explain why you think it's the only possible option.

    Quote Originally Posted by guy View Post
    It could be if..months of writing, Kabuto sub-plot and resolution, and the question of why Shisui had three sharingans are all ignored.
    It's how Edo works: you bring back people from the dead. Itashi was brought back. An Itashi from an age chosen by Kabuto, an age before he was blind and an age when he still had the crow with a functional Sishui eye too.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    You wrote that already. And I wrote it myself before you as a possible option. Instead of writing several time the same thing you should explain why you think it's the only possible option.


    It's how Edo works: you bring back people from the dead. Itashi was brought back. An Itashi from an age chosen by Kabuto, an age before he was blind and an age when he still had the crow with a functional Sishui eye too.
    The summoning creatures (in this case, the crow with implanted sharingan) are still alive, only EDZombies are dead. From the beginning Shisui's eye was implanted inside a 3rd party live creature, not Itachi. Only later in the story, Itachi hided the Crow with Sharingan within Naruto. Then Itachi was dead, then summoned back and then the Crow with Shisui's eye came out and casted the jutsu on Itachi instead (the target was his own eyes, but he assumed that Sasuke would have implanted them to himself, but before Naruto met (EMS)Sasuke with Itachi's eyes, Naruto first met Zombie Itachi). And finally, ZItachi destroyed the eye (with the crow ?).

    The first eye was already stolen by Danzou, before the final meeting between Itachi and Shisui.



  9. #49
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    This chapter was interesting but a bit hard to follow, there was a lot of information that didn't make a lot of sense. Itachi said that the Uchiha who used Izanagi became arrogant because they could undo anything that they did but that doesn't make a lot of sense because if they loose their eyes with each use then they would only be able to use the technique twice. Unless they, like Madara, had access to many Sharingan's. Izanagi and Izanami seem more like desperatation techniques, it seems crazy that a Uchiha would become arrogant using it since loosing their eyes would not only cost them their vision like a normal person but the power that makes the Uchiha clan so feared.

    Even Tobi, who appears to have hundreds of Sharingan's only ever uses Izanagi when he has exhausted his other options, he clearly doesn't use the technique out of conceit. The cost of a sharingan is a very high cost even for someone who has multiple. I am also still confused about what is really required to perform Izanagi and Izanami. When Tobi used Izanagi he made it sound as though it was important to have both Senju and Uchiha blood to use it but based on Itachi's explanation any Uchiha could use these techniques. Tobi still looses his eye when he uses the technique so I am a bit confused as to whether or not Tobi can use the technique with the Rinnegan without any sacrifice. I still believe that the current Rinnegan is the only Rinnegan and were made form Madara's Eternal Mangekyou but I am curious to know the limits of those eyes. As we have seen Madara seems fully capable of using Susanoo with his Rinnegan so I suspect that he can use all of the sharingan's abilities. Sofar though we really haven't seen what the limits are.

    Since Izanagi is decended from the Sage of Six Path's creation of all things technique, I suspect that he did not create Izanagi or Izanami. I think that Izanagi was created by the Elder Son. The Elder Son might have been able to perform Izanagi without the concequence of loosing his eyes. Since we know that the sharingan is basically a devolved version of the true Rinnegan, I would not be surprised if the Elder Son's eyes were capable of using the technique without restriction, much like how someone with the Eternal Mangekyou does not need to worry about loosing their eyesight over time. One could easily see how the Elder Son could have thought himself godly if he could use Izanagi without limits.

    Itachi's explanation for why he chose to spare Kabuto raises some interesting questions about what will happen next. It seems like there are too many loose ends for Kabuto's story to end here, so I believe he will survive but I am curious as to what effect this experience will have on him. Kabuto really seems to be having a bit of a breakdown here, so its hard to see how he could go through this unchanged. The same is true for Sasuke, Itachi has put both Kabuto and Sasuke in a position where they really need to face up to their current choices before they can move forward. Kabuto may finally loose himself completely or he may finally choose to become his own person but the results of either are hard to predict. As for Sasuke, it is hard to see how he can walk away from this and still only be interested in revenge. I do have to wonder if he will finally hear the truth about the massacre from Itachi and how he will take it.

    On that subject I am still wondering what really happened at the beginning of the fight, the whole situation seemed very odd with Itachi summoning crows to stop Sasuke (which he had to have known wouldn't work) and then he seems bothered that Sasuke followed him. The whole situation seems off considering Itachi's nature. I was beginning to think that Itachi had also caught Sasuke in Izanami but that doesn't seem to make much sense considering Itachi is only missing one eye and Sasuke doesn't seem to be in an illusion of any kind. Sasuke is really in a strange position right now, I will be very curious to see where his story goes from here.

    With all of these powerful eye techniques being revealed I am getting progressively more curious as to what the 4th Mangekyou technique really is.

  10. #50
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    You wrote that already. And I wrote it myself before you as a possible option. Instead of writing several time the same thing you should explain why you think it's the only possible option.
    Regarding Koto Amatsukami, It is very hard to read the statement by Itachi and not conclude that at some point in the past (perhaps before Sasuke left Konoha), Itachi had use Koto Amatsukami to drive him toward hatred. That could possibly explain his sudden personality change after his encounter with Itachi and Kisame. Of course the other explanation could also be true, and the awkwardness of translation from Japanese to English is to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean-Marie View Post
    It's how Edo works: you bring back people from the dead. Itashi was brought back. An Itashi from an age chosen by Kabuto, an age before he was blind and an age when he still had the crow with a functional Sishui eye too.
    I am really curious why do you always say Itashi instead of Itachi, and Ushiha instead of Uchiha?

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