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  1. #81
    Hi Guys, I have been following you for a long time and decided to write my very first post to discuss this key chapter. I gave a 5/5 for this chapter because Izanami was finally revealed.

    According to Itachi, Kabuto is now trapped in an infinite loop which looks like the "groundhog day" movie great movie by the way)! Also, Itachi kept talking in many chapters about fate and destiny and how it changed its views in the ninja world. This leads to the beauty of Izanami. I strongly believe the person who is trapped in Izanami can only exit if he performs certain actions or takes decisions chosen by the justu caster. Once the actions or decisions are fullfilled then it becomes reality! Hence, Kabuto will only escape if he decides to change his destiny by performing the hand seals to undo zombi-mode. Clearly, Izanami is the strongest genjutsu in Narutoverse since the caster will decide the fate or destiny of the castee.

    This being said, I come back to my statement about why this is a key chapter.

    1- How come a single-use jutsu such as Izanami is known by Itachi? Jutsus are typically only acquired through experience unless I am wrong.
    2- Have you always wondered why Itachi wiped out his entire clan (children included) based on the motives his father and fellows were planning a coup.

    I strongly believe that 1 is related to 2 because Itachi's fate was chosen when he was himself trapped by Izanami. Who would be the best character to do such an advanced jutsu? The masked man with a missing left eye would be a good answer. He wanted to wipe the whole clan for revenge purposes without being accused of it and was Itachi's master at some point.

    I know this would raise up more questions than actually solve ones (for example, why Sasuke was the only survivor).

    Ideas????

  2. #82
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Mons,

    Welcome to Mangashare: I'd like to think this is where the thoghtfull Naruto fans gather to deliberate.

    On your first point, I do agree, but to be honest I am biased because I reject the notion of Izanami boilling down to being just a Genjutsu, albeit an unavoidable genjutsu.

    On the second point, here are my thoughts:

    I think Itachi found out about Izanami and Izanagi by reading it off the stone carving in the secrete underground Uchiha gathering place. Izanami and Izanagi are probably only discernible to people who have the MS Sharingan. One important reason I have for not agreeing with your proposition is that Tobi-Madara already had a One Eyed Mask when Itachi fist saw him, in other words, the loss of a left eye cannot be the reason for the one eyed mask. Actually I believe he always had two sharingans.

    Remember also that Tobi has an Eye Bank full of Sharingans and he has been shown to transplant eyes. Furthermore, his Original Eyes cannot be the ones he was seen using at the time he met Kisame or when he met Itachi. I believe his Originals were Madara's EMS that Became the Rinnegans he gave Nagato. So for Tobi, losing an eye or not is kind of normal for him. He switches eyes just as easily as he switches arms. The exception is that he keeps and protects the Right eye because it posseses the power to let him teleport himself and become intangible.

    These are my theories at least, and I don't claim to be right, It's just how I feel about things.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  3. #83
    Hello Paubee,

    First of all, please let me thank you for your warm welcome and detailled reply. This was indeed my first post and after rereading it I guess some of the terms I used were not necessarily appropriate and were also misleading.

    I completely agree with you on the fact that Izanami can not be categorized purely as a genjutsu. Also, as you mention it is indeed possible Itachi learnt about it on the stone carving. I truly hope we learn more of this sacred tablet in the upcoming chapters. So much revolves around it.

    Maybe I was not clear about Tobi. Yes Yes Yes when Itachi met him he already wore that one-hole mask this indicating he was mastering eye switching well before that period. (On the side funny note, I would certainly define Tobi as Mr Potato with spare Uchiha eyes and Zetsu limbs). What I meant is, it is also possible Tobi casted Izanami on Itachi since he has tons of spare eyes to play with and thus did not fear to lose eyesight on his original eye. Also agree with you his original's were Madara's EMS to start with anyhow. The fact he read the tablet with the rinnegan before he gave it to Nagato might have allowed him to access to this space-time teleportation technique which is quite singular in Narutoverse.

    Because there are so many unkwows at this point, the discussion between the brothers about "the truth" in the next chapter or so will be very very interesting to clarify our discussion.

    Thanks again for sharing your theories

  4. #84
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I'm psyching myself up for Itachi to take us on another series of flashbacks, this time involving the Uchiha Massacre and possibly Tobi. That might be as good a lead-in as any for returning to Naruto vs. Tobi. Depending on how things go with Kabuto/Edo Tensei, Tobi may rush off to meet and/or revive Madara.

  5. #85
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    I'm psyching myself up for Itachi to take us on another series of flashbacks, this time involving the Uchiha Massacre and possibly Tobi. That might be as good a lead-in as any for returning to Naruto vs. Tobi. Depending on how things go with Kabuto/Edo Tensei, Tobi may rush off to meet and/or revive Madara.
    Man, Kishi better not dissapoint us on this one. I'm bracing myself for Itachi to drop some heavy duty classifed info on us via Itachi.

    Looking back, I remember how some readers were saying (words to the effect) that Danzo was a good guy. In actuality, even Orochimaru was nothing in comparison to Danzo's Villany. I expect that Madara and Danzo together account for most of the evil done in this manga, and I tachi is going to reveal exactly just how bad the Demonic Duo have been.

    I am expecting that Madara was present at the meeting the Uchihas had when Shisui died, and he had something to do also, with their meeting when the fox was unleashed. Madara probably did this to cause suspicion to fall on the Uchihas. The only thing the Uchihas didn't know was that he had already decided to kill them off.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #86
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    My theories/take on the subject:

    I definitely think that Tobi was playing both sides against each other in the Danzou/Uchiha conflict. Tobi told us that Itachi was the only one to discover him; that makes sense, considering Itachi was working with both the Uchiha and ROOT as a double agent. Tobi played on the old hatred between the clans, along with the memory of Madara's attack on the village. All it took was a second Kyuubi attack to make all the old clan hatred resurface, and the Uchiha were bound to think, "Maybe Madara had it right all along." Then along comes Tobi claiming to be Madara, telling them how the Senju always intended to suppress and betray the Uchiha, and reminding them of their former glory under Madara's leadership back when they were proud and strong. Likewise, Tobi probably confirmed Danzou's fears of an Uchiha rebellion.

    It all boils down to fear and greed towards the Sharingan. Danzou and ROOT couldn't trust the Uchiha, who were too powerful to be truly controlled. People like Danzou view anything they cannot control as a potential threat. Likewise, the Uchiha were too proud as a clan, and viewed others as inferiors. Their pride kept them isolated from the village as much as anything else, and that isolation made them a target. The same could be said of the Hyuga, but the Hyuga are less powerful, have less of a history of war with the Senju, and never produced a renegade on the level of Uchiha Madara. Most importantly, the Hyuga's eyes cannot control the Kyuubi... who knows, maybe Danzou/ROOT always considered stealing the Sharingan as a potential benefit of the Uchiha Massacre (finally being able to control those pesky eyes). I'm sure Danzou didn't like the fact that no one in Konoha could hope to actually wield the Kyuubi's power as a military asset except for the Uchiha.

    I'm sure Tobi's intent was always to take the eyes. He may even share Madara's ideology/memory of the clan betraying him, and wanted to command their powers once again, in a sense. I'm still waiting for Tobi's army of Sharingan-armed Zetsu clones (or perhaps even an Edo Tensei'd Uchiha clan). He's got to have some big plans in store for that massive supply of Sharingan.

  7. #87
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Interesting, Famous. The Zetsus have not been particularly effective so far, except as a tool for attrition, and Zetsus weilding Sharingans would have Hashirama's chakra to power the Sahinrgans, but I still don't see them as being able to sway the course of the war because there are too few of them (Sharingans), and it takes years for a Sharingan bearer to develop true skill, and even longer to be able to use Amaterasu and Suzanoo.

    I am in complete agreement with you on the role of Tobi-Madara though.

    For now however, the most immediate issues are:-

    How long will it take for Itachi to force Kabuto to Undo Edo Tensei?
    Will any of the Kages die in the interim?
    How will Naruto (exhausted as he is), and Killerbee (wounded as he is), fare against Tobi using Geddou Mazou?
    .....And what the H$#@* is Samaheda good for these days?
    Will the Ninjas headed toward Naruto's location make it there on time, and will the sheer numbers force Tobi to retreat?

    Somehow, I feel there will be an interlude where both sides withdraw/retreat to lick their wounds and recompose themselves. This probably means there will be some Kage deaths. Lastly I hope Tsunade doesn't die because I suspect she may have some secertes to pass on to Naruto about Minato..Just a Hunch.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  8. #88
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ Let's hope that Kakashi will obtain obtain Samaheda from Bee, then will draw from him the 8-tail's chakra (since they are wounded and can't fight) and then will cast a gigantic Kamui, which will send GM (or it's part) to the sun .



  9. #89
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    I still think Samahada still has a part to play. The lust it would have for the Gedo statue (and all of the chakra contained therein) would be overwelming, so i think that just has the Gedo statue is about to lay a finishing blow to Naruto/Bee Samahada ducks in and either sucks a bit of the chakra away (foiling the shot) or jumps in the way of a massive blast and is destroyed/killed.

    Paul: If any Kages get killed they only have themselves to blame. Just before Naruto left the fight to them they had a chance to seal Madara, but they were too busy being all uppety and giving Naruto a lecture to bother, and it is coming back to haunt them. They should have just listened to Naruto.

    As i have said before - Tsunade is going to die - she has to in order for the village to elect Naruto Hokage. If she lives then i predict Naruto will never be Hokage, he will be something higher that puts him in charge of all shinobi's.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
    The virginity is strong in this one.

  10. #90
    Regular Member Ahmad Jamal's Avatar
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    @ Paulbee: I remember the discussion where you stated this point, that something should be exempted from ET, and i agreed it is interesting and i am on my part waiting for it too...!!

    About the role of Tobi and Madara i also agree with Rlinfamous and Paulbee, and i also think that Shisui's death had more meaning to it, it becomes more credible if you think about Tobi, Danzou double team...!!

    Izanami got to be way more than any of the powerful genjutsu....!! hope we see the real effects of it in next chapter....!!


    yeah i desperately want Itachi to spill up the hidden beans..... he deserves to go in peace this time, i mean if you look at Itachi he is the tragic hero of Naruto series and even now in ET he has realized that all his life long sacrifice has backfired coz his little brother has after all chosen the dark path....!! its completely out of how series is meant to be but i wish that once Itachi starts departing this time it is with the knowledge that Sasuke is not astray... so may be Itachi would turn Sasuke's heart, he is certainly going to apologize for all the wrong he did on him, this ought to have certain soft effect on anyone...!!


    And about Zetsu, if they get Sharingan and have Hashirama dna...couldn't they spawn Rinnegan ? hey that might be dangerous you know "Shinra Tensie" everywhere (ok that was way over, Kishi can't do that )

    About the end of Kabuto: How many of you think, Itachi is going to strike him with his legendary sword ?

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