Rinnegan vs Mangekyou Sharingan

[Gamemaster83]

I don't see it that way. I never saw that Pain bowed down to Madara in any kind of way. I think they are just working towards the same goal, and they both need each other to succeed. Tobi.....I mean "Madara"....hasn't showed us anything yet either so why would you say that. There isn't anything on Tobi/Madara in the Databook yet. there is more concrete evidence backing up the sharingan, but I highly doubt If the Rinnegan is a fluke from what we seen so far.


besides if Pain could easily defeat Hanzou, someone that couldn't be defeated by combined strength of Orochimaru Tsunade, Jiraiya, one would have to say The rinnegan is truly awesome.

I feel you but no. They clearly have a leader-subordinate relationship. When Madara instructed Pain to get the Nine-tails, he also told him "I will NOT ACCEPT failure." That's not something you say to a co-leader. You say that to a subordinate. Madara later went on to COMMAND Pain to tell the others to hurry up and capture their beasts. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/16/ Finally Madara says "soon our goals will be achieved, then the sharigan's true power, my power, Uchiha Madara's power..." It's as though all of Akatsuki's goals benefit Madara the most. After all it was Pain who joined Akatsuki and acts as the front man. It's not the other way around. Most of the members didn't even know that Madara was even in Akatsuki let alone the real one pulling the strings.

Pain defeating Hanzou is nothing. Any ninja with Pain's abilities could've defeated Hanzou. He controls six bodies with unique abilities that he can continue to revive because he can only be killed in a special way. The fact that the Sannin lost to him was most likely due to the their relative inexperience at the time.

While its probably true Madara may be stronger than Pain the reason has more to do with thier age gap and experiance diffrence. Madara is about 100 years old where as Pain is about 30 a huge diffrence in experiance.


In the same way that Sasuke has the potential to surpass Itachi and possibly Madara atm hes still just a 16 year old kid and will take possibly years for him to develop his abilites. The same may be true of Pain he may not have reached his full potential yet but has the capcity to surpass Madara.

The flaw in that theory is simply that if age and experience were the true deciding factors, then Kakuzu could've just as easily have been the leader since he is just about the same age as Madara. Remember he too encountered Shodaime.

And if you are willing to admit that Pain may not have "reached his full potential yet" you are also admitting that Pain is weaker than Madara. You are saying that Madara is seasoned while Pain still needs more growth, and the implications of that are simple: Madara is more powerful than Pain, which is why he's the true leader of Akatsuki, a point that I made initially. So thanks for agreeing with me. XD

[POW]

i think its judgement..not experience

You talking bout the Manga or the US ELections

The flaw in that theory is simply that if age and experience were the true deciding factors, then Kakuzu could've just as easily have been the leader since he is just about the same age as Madara. Remember he too encountered Shodaime.

And if you are willing to admit that Pain may not have "reached his full potential yet" you are also admitting that Pain is weaker than Madara. You are saying that Madara is seasoned while Pain still needs more growth, and the implications of that are simple: Madara is more powerful than Pain, which is why he's the true leader of Akatsuki, a point that I made initially. So thanks for agreeing with me. XD

I wouldnt compare Kakuza to Madara because one possess one the most powerfull dojutsu eyes and bloodline the other does not. Try to imagine in the 100 years or so hes been alive how many battles Madara has been in how many thousands perhaps hundreds of thousand Jutsus he has copied.

Hes got 70 years of exepriance over Pain so of course Madara is probably stronger when at full strength and health. Pain takes orders from Madara so its clear whos in charge but we are not talking about who's stronger right now but which dojustsu is potentially stronger.

You can borrow form my many Star wars anologies and see Pein as being Vader and Madara being the Emporer. The Emporer clearly is in charge but Vader always held the capacity to surpass him even he recognized that is why he choose him. It just that with his age and wisdom he could control/ manipulate and mold him to his likening

[Gamemaster83]

^^I agree that is not a question of who is stronger, rather which Dojutsu is stronger, but I believe that we have not seen the full capacity of either one; so that question is unanswerable at the moment. I merely mentioned the superiority Madara exercises over Pain as a parenthetical.

[Hardcasex]

This is a pointless and irrelevant thread..why? We know nothing of the Rinnengan,we know nothing of the EMS abilities..And the databook confirmed one of my theories that the 6 bodies cant be killed in the traditional sense so that Body on the autopsy table in leaf is indeed alive.
We havent seen Tobi/madara actually use a jutsu yet people are making up all this fan fiction of him and akatsuki when none of it has been spelled out in the manga as of yet...We arent even clear on Akatsuki's real motives and goals..

[Gregge]

Rinnegan is the strongest. Said so by Jiraiya himself.

I'd rather have Sharingan personally. It looks cool and being able to put anyone into a genjutsu with just a look into your eyes. Sweet.

Would help me in school and being able to land any job I wanted.

[erratic]

This is a pointless thread because we haven't even see what the Rinningan can do.

It's like asking "Hokage vs Raikage" ?

[Gamemaster83]

This is a pointless and irrelevant thread..why? We know nothing of the Rinnengan,we know nothing of the EMS abilities..And the databook confirmed one of my theories that the 6 bodies cant be killed in the traditional sense so that Body on the autopsy table in leaf is indeed alive.

Clearly the body is "dead" otherwise Pain wouldn't have went through the trouble of obtaining a new body. If it were alive it wouldn't allow itself to be captured and examined. It's dead, but can be revived, but my guess is that it has to be through direct contact with one of the other bodies.

[Heaven's Cloud]

I feel you but no. They clearly have a leader-subordinate relationship. When Madara instructed Pain to get the Nine-tails, he also told him "I will NOT ACCEPT failure." That's not something you say to a co-leader. You say that to a subordinate. Madara later went on to COMMAND Pain to tell the others to hurry up and capture their beasts. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/16/ Finally Madara says "soon our goals will be achieved, then the sharigan's true power, my power, Uchiha Madara's power..." It's as though all of Akatsuki's goals benefit Madara the most. After all it was Pain who joined Akatsuki and acts as the front man. It's not the other way around. Most of the members didn't even know that Madara was even in Akatsuki let alone the real one pulling the strings.

Pain defeating Hanzou is nothing. Any ninja with Pain's abilities could've defeated Hanzou. He controls six bodies with unique abilities that he can continue to revive because he can only be killed in a special way. The fact that the Sannin lost to him was most likely due to the their relative inexperience at the time.

The rinnegan gives Pain those abilities, true or no? The rinnegan allows Pain to use six bodies. That is reason enough to believe that the rinnegan is great. How could you say Pain defeating Hanzou is nothing. That is insulting the legendary Sanins. It wasn't just because the legendary Sanins couldn't defeat him. It was the fact that he was a legend. I kinda agree with you on the Madara in command thing but still there is no proof of the EMS or anything on Madara so I'm still sticking to what I said about the abilities he has.

[Gamemaster83]

The rinnegan gives Pain those abilities, true or no? The rinnegan allows Pain to use six bodies. That is reason enough to believe that the rinnegan is great. How could you say Pain defeating Hanzou is nothing. That is insulting the legendary Sanins. It wasn't just because the legendary Sanins couldn't defeat him. It was the fact that he was a legend. I kinda agree with you on the Madara in command thing but still there is no proof of the EMS or anything on Madara so I'm still sticking to what I said about the abilities he has.

I love the fact that you are from Alabama, I don't think I know a single person from Alabama, that's cool. LOL

Anyway yeah I guess saying it's "nothing" is a bit of a stretch, I think I just get tired of people portraying Pain like he's the ultimate Shinobi in Naruto. Yeah he's definitely powerful but it's only because he must killed in a special manner.

I think the Sannin could've beaten Hanzou, he told them that "this battle will most likely end in Konoha's victory." Then he told them that in exchange for their lives they were to call themselves "Sannin" from that point on. Jiraiya exclaimed that he didn't need any mercy and that he could "still fight" and I'm sure Tsunade and Orochi were good to go for another round as well. When Jiraiya learned that Hanzou had been defeated, his surprise was due to the fact that Pain being "one person" killed Hanzou (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/369/13/) but upon learning that Pain is actually 6 people (7 because the real one doesn't actually set foot on the battlefield) it makes more sense. Jiraiya knew that Hanzou was powerful, a legend, so it didn't make sense that he could be defeated by a single person. And he right, that doesn't make sense, and that didn't happen, Pain is 6 people.

[poof]

Shadow clones are bound by how much chakra the user has, that's why we usually never see anyone use more that two at once, other than Naruto. User's remaining chakra gets evenly distributed to clones, so any jutsu used is also bound by the user's skill and the amount of chakra available (reply to someone who suggested shadow clones can counter Pein's bodies all willy nilly). Where as Rinnegan can have 7 bodies and 7 different chakra circulatory systems, 6 separate bodies being controlled by 1 user. The doujutsu has every elemental affinity and allows you to thus master them all. Through these different paths the Rinnegan displayed strong mastery over powerful jutsu such as summoning creatures with distinct abilities never seen before (invisibility, explosives, replication), powers over gravitation, chakra absorption (so theoretically the user can continually replenish their chakras infinitely), and most importanly control over life and death. Rinnegan was the original doujutsu, containing many unknown forbidden/powerful jutsu's which we haven't seen, "Paths". This allowed the Sage of Six Paths to tame the 10-tails and create the tailed beasts upon his death, as well as giving him powers of creation from which "Izanagi" was derived. Esentially all techniques are just mutations or variations of what the original Rinnegan possesed and allowed it's user to do. Ultimately it comes down to the skill and resolve of the ninja in control of the Kekkei Genkai, meaning that though I don't think Nagato was stronger than Madara, even though he was an Uzumaki with the Rinnegan making him a direct Sage/Senju descendant, the Rinnegan is more powerful than the Mangekyo.