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  1. #11
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    itachi being ill due to already having a bad health or due to guilt over killing his own family is still a much more plausible reason tho. he couldnt read the tablets, atleast not the part that needed the rinnegan to read and you're assuming that the rinnegan comes from the sharingan of which there is no real proof. you're assuming that once you have the prerequisite for developing the rinnegan it strains the body which is just illogical bcoz that would mean that some1 like kakashi who would also meet the same requirements as itachi atleast according to you, would be just as sick as itachi.

    i think your theory and arguements are heavily shrouded in your own itachi fanboy'ism, fact of the matter is, we dont know for sure how you develop the rinnegan, for all we know itachi wasnt even close, and the info we have about developing the rinnegan is shady at best as we dont know why and what caused madara to gain the rinnegan(a lot of ppl are assuming it was the sharingan which could be true but it could also not be true), nor do we know for sure if tobi gave the rinnegan to nagato or if nagato developed the rinnegan naturally and tobi was simply using mind games which fits perfectly with tobi's mindset for manipulation.
    I have never been a fan of itachi, i do tend to get carried away in my excitement for theories but kakashi is nowhere near meeting the same conditions as itachi so don't put those words in my mouth. He hasn't the bloodline, he hasn't awoken a second Ms technique, he is nowhere near awakening susanoo or using izanagi/izanami, he isn't a master of sharingan in the slightest. And check your notion of logic because last time i checked meeting the prerequisites to something is a safe bet that something is attainable. If you want to say he was physically ill from being sick, fine, we may never know the real reason but kabuto and orochimaru already had their theory confirmed of the evolution of the eye doukutsus Whig is partly why i say itachi was awakening rinnegan. Sharingan outside the uchiha bloodline causes strain and physical ailment to those who use it. Rinnegan OS teased to be similar but moreso and that's not just for uchiha. Nagato's use of rinnegan and chakra transmission caused him physical ailment, not his own guilt or regret from his failures. The fact that sharingan has physical drawbacks even for uchiha (Ms blindness, darkness for forbidden techniques) suggests something more powerful will be more taxing. And have you forgotten the basic idea throughout the manga that the split bloodline meansthe true power of the so6p can't be fully realized in either one by itself. Uchiha can't sustain rinnegan without the stamina of senju or uzumaki. How can you say even if circumstantial in itachis case, he is better candidate than any for. Awakening rinnegan after madara. Do you deny that? He has completed thus far all known sharingan tech sans ems. Perhaps once he obtained ems he would have all the ingredients but not completing that allowed him to live as long as he did.

  2. #12
    /\ this guy. pretty much silenced almara with that retort, which through my years of trolling this forum, have only seen happen a time or two. On the subject of whether Itachi was on his way toward gaining the rennegan...my only question is why? He is the type of man who always had a reason and an end result in mind. He needed to die at the hands of his brother. He didn't need rennegan for this. Which brings up the second reason why he probably wasn't on track for activating it...Why wouldn't he have mentioned this to sasuke? It just doesn't add up. Pretty much a closed book IMO

  3. #13
    Senior Member inu_qq's Avatar
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    How amazing would it be if Oro had a major part to play in the formation of Tobi? We already know that he had been doing research on the 1st hokage's DNA for a long time, but who's research started first, Oro's or Tobi's? This might be a simple answer that has been stated in the manga that I have missed, I will have to check. But to me, it would be no surprise that they know eachother well and even worked together.

    Think about this though, Oro wants an Uchiha body. BAD. So what does this crazy ape do? He tries to create one, artificially. With Uchiha DNA, the body he created would be capable of wielding the sahringan. When would an abundance of said DNA be available? After the massacre of course! If he had been doing so much research on the first's DNA, why not the strongest Uchiha to have ever lived. I think Oro def knows who Tobi is, because he helped to create him

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I have never been a fan of itachi, i do tend to get carried away in my excitement for theories but kakashi is nowhere near meeting the same conditions as itachi so don't put those words in my mouth. He hasn't the bloodline, he hasn't awoken a second Ms technique, he is nowhere near awakening susanoo or using izanagi/izanami, he isn't a master of sharingan in the slightest. And check your notion of logic because last time i checked meeting the prerequisites to something is a safe bet that something is attainable. If you want to say he was physically ill from being sick, fine, we may never know the real reason but kabuto and orochimaru already had their theory confirmed of the evolution of the eye doukutsus Whig is partly why i say itachi was awakening rinnegan. Sharingan outside the uchiha bloodline causes strain and physical ailment to those who use it. Rinnegan OS teased to be similar but moreso and that's not just for uchiha. Nagato's use of rinnegan and chakra transmission caused him physical ailment, not his own guilt or regret from his failures. The fact that sharingan has physical drawbacks even for uchiha (Ms blindness, darkness for forbidden techniques) suggests something more powerful will be more taxing. And have you forgotten the basic idea throughout the manga that the split bloodline meansthe true power of the so6p can't be fully realized in either one by itself. Uchiha can't sustain rinnegan without the stamina of senju or uzumaki. How can you say even if circumstantial in itachis case, he is better candidate than any for. Awakening rinnegan after madara. Do you deny that? He has completed thus far all known sharingan tech sans ems. Perhaps once he obtained ems he would have all the ingredients but not completing that allowed him to live as long as he did.
    you're assuming that you need to be an uchiha to develop the rinnegan, you're assuming you need to develop susanoo or a 2nd MS technique or being able to use izanagi/izanami, but these assumptions just arent facts, as i said in the post you linked, we dont know for sure how to develop the rinnegan, for all we know every1 in narutoverse is currently on the brink of developing the rinnegan, we know madara did, so you're assuming you need the things he had, ill refer you to the SO6P who didnt have the sharingan making your whole argument about the sharingan pointless so the sharingan isnt needed at all.

    also i think you're confusing strain and physical ailment with chakra drain, atleast when it comes to kakashi it is purely chakra draining but that can be explained by the fact that technically what kakashi has is EMS as kakashi like all ppl with EMS has gotten his eye operated in thus bypassing the blindness that would normally hit ppl with MS.

    i dont exactly get why you're saying that bcoz the sharingan has a drawbacks for uchiha that it would suggest something more powerful will be more taxing, and assuming your right about the whole "sharingan needed for rinnegan" thing that you're preaching then you might have a point, but my point is, we know too little about the development of the rinnegan, yes, it seems the bloodline may be important, but for all we know it might be utterly pointless, the uchiha/senju/uzumaki bloodline mix might just be the easiest way to achieve an impure form of it and even then the version can never be the same as the version that the SO6P had since the uchiha/senju/uzumaki bloodlines would have been severely tainted and with very little of the SO6P blood left suggesting that it is entirely possible for some1 to develop the rinnegan without having the mixed bloodline.

    and based on what you're argueing about then yeah ofc itachi is a candidate, but so would kakashi as he already have something from the uchiha clan and depending what his other heritage is, if it is senju or part senju, then kakashi would be atleast an equal or greater candidate, and naruto would be an equal candidate too if not greater since he is alive and all.

    im not saying you're wrong, knife eater, but you're basing most of your arguements on things that havent been verfied, so as i said, i cant say you're flat out wrong, i just doubt you are correct, there are so many things in the manga that we are assuming to be true or false but have no way of prooving.

    Quote Originally Posted by inu_qq View Post
    How amazing would it be if Oro had a major part to play in the formation of Tobi? We already know that he had been doing research on the 1st hokage's DNA for a long time, but who's research started first, Oro's or Tobi's? This might be a simple answer that has been stated in the manga that I have missed, I will have to check. But to me, it would be no surprise that they know eachother well and even worked together.

    Think about this though, Oro wants an Uchiha body. BAD. So what does this crazy ape do? He tries to create one, artificially. With Uchiha DNA, the body he created would be capable of wielding the sahringan. When would an abundance of said DNA be available? After the massacre of course! If he had been doing so much research on the first's DNA, why not the strongest Uchiha to have ever lived. I think Oro def knows who Tobi is, because he helped to create him
    i highly doubt that oro had anything to do with te creation of tobi as oro was most likely not alive when tobi was created.

  5. #15
    Seriously though guys, why wouldn't he have mentioned it to sasuke during their last conversation? If he had, or was in the process of obtaining the rennegan, he FOR SURE 100% would have mentioned it to him, as he is counting on Sasuke and naruto to defeat madara/tobi and help win the war.
    It COULD be argued that he wouldn't want saucegay to use those powers against Konoha. I understand that, but then, think about when he was revived with Pain. He didn't act at all like he had personal, first hand, knowledge of all the powers associated with Rennegan. It all seemed like a mystery to him, how he achieved it and all..

    BTW, is my avitar link broken? Sometimes I can see it and other times I cant. haha
    Last edited by BlackZetsu; 07-18-2012 at 12:52 AM. Reason: questions fool

  6. #16
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZetsu View Post
    Seriously though guys, why wouldn't he have mentioned it to sasuke during their last conversation? If he had, or was in the process of obtaining the rennegan, he FOR SURE 100% would have mentioned it to him, as he is counting on Sasuke and naruto to defeat madara/tobi and help win the war.
    It COULD be argued that he wouldn't want saucegay to use those powers against Konoha. I understand that, but then, think about when he was revived with Pain. He didn't act at all like he had personal, first hand, knowledge of all the powers associated with Rennegan. It all seemed like a mystery to him, how he achieved it and all..

    BTW, is my avitar link broken? Sometimes I can see it and other times I cant. haha
    I wasn't clear before about one point. Itachi may not have known he had rinnegan emerging within him. If its a mutation or legacy (a curse if sorts even) then its not something you necessarily consciously activate like a new hip replacement. There would be no reason to tell sasuke anything and for the better service of the story it works better if itachi didn't know or didn't say anything. If he didn't know then he didn't know and my posts stand as they are concerning the subject. If he did know (I'd like to point out that with the heresay available thus far in the manga, I've done a good job showing itachi as a candidate for rinnegan naturally, again, that's based on heresay so far) if he did know he was on the cusp of rinnegan, he most certainly would hide it from sasuke, as itachi in truth was never about get power and kick ass cuz power is awesome get all you can. He understood limits and was wise before the fact of the unique role he cast himself into. If rinnegan kills uchiha who activate it then of course itachi isn't going to share that curse with sasuke, look what it has done to the two people who have used it in the manga! They got a comfy wheelchair and weightloss for the summer or nasty freak of science body from kabutos pile of snake poo. You think itachi is going to lead sasuke that. Direction after all he went through? Itachi's whole point to sasuke of chowing his path, the one he hoped, has little to no room for hints at getting ultimate power that so far seems an ultimate curse.

    And about facts and evidence. We are dealing with an ongoing thrilling story which relies on the author to deliberately conceal and misdirected us on several levels. The discussion of itachis illness relies on how well you can see into the heresay and murkiness of cloudy details and use other devices or symbols to paint a picture that holds up. Things will change of course and speculation will be overturned, its why i like these threads but until they take rinnegan out of the direction if evolved sharingan its been going IM going to stick to my idea because its plain awesome and when sasuke finds himself on the cusp of that same power he will think back to his sick older brother who knew power wasn't everything and there is always a weakness. Having itachi sick from this sort of mutation had very clean fitting pieces of potential for sasukes character development in the future unless kishi tells us rinnegan can only be activated in the black cauldron of orochimaru's puffy snake den of legendary DNA excretement.

    @almara, the kakashi argument isn't working, it so clearly doesn't fit. You did fine with the differences of exhaustion and ailment but it doesn't hurt my idea, though. Just need you guys to see that it makes more sense for him to not tell sasuke and even more evidence, actual evidence for this is itachi didn't bother telling sasuke much of anything about uchiha/sharingan powers. He was trying to show sasuke a path, not give him the instruction manual to sharingan. He knew izanagi but it wasn't important to tell sasuke. Sasuke learned most of the advanced sharingan elsewhere and independent of itachi. He demonstrated susanoo but never told sasuke he should have all the cool powers he had so he can beat madara. All of that is what he put on naruto.
    _____
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I wasn't clear before about one point. Itachi may not have known he had rinnegan emerging within him. If its a mutation or legacy (a curse if sorts even) then its not something you necessarily consciously activate like a new hip replacement. There would be no reason to tell sasuke anything and for the better service of the story it works better if itachi didn't know or didn't say anything. If he didn't know then he didn't know and my posts stand as they are concerning the subject. If he did know (I'd like to point out that with the heresay available thus far in the manga, I've done a good job showing itachi as a candidate for rinnegan naturally, again, that's based on heresay so far) if he did know he was on the cusp of rinnegan, he most certainly would hide it from sasuke, as itachi in truth was never about get power and kick ass cuz power is awesome get all you can. He understood limits and was wise before the fact of the unique role he cast himself into. If rinnegan kills uchiha who activate it then of course itachi isn't going to share that curse with sasuke, look what it has done to the two people who have used it in the manga! They got a comfy wheelchair and weightloss for the summer or nasty freak of science body from kabutos pile of snake poo. You think itachi is going to lead sasuke that. Direction after all he went through? Itachi's whole point to sasuke of chowing his path, the one he hoped, has little to no room for hints at getting ultimate power that so far seems an ultimate curse.

    And about facts and evidence. We are dealing with an ongoing thrilling story which relies on the author to deliberately conceal and misdirected us on several levels. The discussion of itachis illness relies on how well you can see into the heresay and murkiness of cloudy details and use other devices or symbols to paint a picture that holds up. Things will change of course and speculation will be overturned, its why i like these threads but until they take rinnegan out of the direction if evolved sharingan its been going IM going to stick to my idea because its plain awesome and when sasuke finds himself on the cusp of that same power he will think back to his sick older brother who knew power wasn't everything and there is always a weakness. Having itachi sick from this sort of mutation had very clean fitting pieces of potential for sasukes character development in the future unless kishi tells us rinnegan can only be activated in the black cauldron of orochimaru's puffy snake den of legendary DNA excretement..
    He still would have mentioned it to him, obviously. How could Itachi, a loving brother, not say at least "Sasuke, this power they want you to achieve, it will KILL YOU. LOOK AT WHAT IT HAS DONE TO ME. don't be fooled by their promises of power, they are using you. Trust the eyes you have now."

    He would've said something like that. For sure

  8. #18
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZetsu View Post
    He still would have mentioned it to him, obviously. How could Itachi, a loving brother, not say at least "Sasuke, this power they want you to achieve, it will KILL YOU. LOOK AT WHAT IT HAS DONE TO ME. don't be fooled by their promises of power, they are using you. Trust the eyes you have now."

    He would've said something like that. For sure
    I strongly disagree. Keeping sasuke ignorant is a better course. If itachi gave sasuke a warning as you described, sasuke would immediately try to obtain it and ignore the warning. Sasuke hasn't yet been redeemed and rinnegan isn't relevant to what itachi wanted for sasuke. The primary modus of itachi was keeping secrets from his brother. Sasuke having rinnegan or not, itachi leaves that to be decided at sasuke's chosen path with naruto there with him. Just, even by the time itachi vanished from his edo tensei, sasuke was still not ready to have knowledge or consideration of achieving rinnegan within himself, it would be disasterous and itachi knows it.

    Do you protect an alcoholic brother or sister by warning them of all the beer in the fridge? Same principle.
    _____
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  9. #19
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    i would agree with blackZetsu, itachi would have told sasuke if he had been developing the rinnegan and itachi's M.O. wasnt keeping secrets from sasuke but to do whatever he could to protect sasuke and if itachi became ill due to the sharingan or dvelopment of the rinnegan, he would definately have told sasuke.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    i would agree with blackZetsu, itachi would have told sasuke if he had been developing the rinnegan and itachi's M.O. wasnt keeping secrets from sasuke but to do whatever he could to protect sasuke and if itachi became ill due to the sharingan or dvelopment of the rinnegan, he would definately have told sasuke.
    haha, thanks man. It seems so obvious to me! I'm glad some one else agrees.

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