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  1. #1
    Legendary Member halaros536's Avatar
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    Ace's bounty revealed(SPOILER)

    This hasnt been posted here,so i thought i should post it.


    http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t...=1#post2539383

    http://raftelforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=419

    So,Ace's bounty was 550 million.

  2. #2
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    A cool, shows that Luffy still has a long way to go (and that Ace could beat Enel)
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  3. #3
    Legendary Member halaros536's Avatar
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    Yes.Its good that now people who were saying that Enel was a top-tier because of his bounty,need to rethink.

  4. #4
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggeroff View Post
    A cool, shows that Luffy still has a long way to go (and that Ace could beat Enel)
    Really? So that's how we decide who's stronger now huh? By who has a bigger bounty? So Ace should have kicked Jinbei's (which we now now that has a little over 400 mil bounty) ass before? Lol, if we dissect Ace's bounty I'm pretty sure most of it was due to the fact that he is Roger's son. I mean the WG was even willing to go to war just to exterminate him.

    Unlike Enel, Oda had a basis on how Ace's bounty should be because of what he has done and what he was to the sea. Enel was just a hypothetical question which was more than likely answered based on his pure strength alone.

    Just the mere destructive power of Enel's df is enough for me to classify him as top tier. Ok, not quite but he's on it's doorstep. His major weakness is he's overconfident, inexperienced and doesn't know shit about the life below.

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  5. #5
    Legendary Member halaros536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Really? So that's how we decide who's stronger now huh? By who has a bigger bounty? So Ace should have kicked Jinbei's (which we now now that has a little over 400 mil bounty) ass before? Lol, if we dissect Ace's bounty I'm pretty sure most of it was due to the fact that he is Roger's son. I mean the WG was even willing to go to war just to exterminate him.
    Ace should be stronger than Enel even if we did not take into account the bounty.

    And yeah Ace should obviously be stronger than Jimbe.He was equal to him 2 years before he joined the Wb pirates and he was someone who was growing constantly.

    And since we have learned that after the 500 million it gets extremely hard to get a higher bounty,a difference in bounties there could mean much,unlike when we're in the range of 300-400 million,where inconsistencies should be greater.

    Unlike Enel, Oda had a basis on how Ace's bounty should be because of what he has done and what he was to the sea. Enel was just a hypothetical question which was more than likely answered based on his pure strength alone.
    Since you acknowledge that bounties do not reflect only strength,are you stubborn enough to say that Oda didnt take into account what somene like Enel would do when giving an answer to his bounty,just to find something to make your claims seem valid?

    Also keep in mind that Oda have said that Enel would have 500 million bounty at most.That says something.

    No matter the case Oda's the author of this manga,so his words are cannon.

    And now we're changing arguments arent we?All the times that i was debating with Enel supporters here a main argument to prove his strength was "500 million bounty!!!OMFG 500 million!!!".And i still remember that i was the one saying that nothing indicates 500 mill is even close to top-tier bounties.And now,when its shown that his bounty wasnt as great as you thought,unless you think that someone like Marci is gonna have only like 50 million more than Ace,now we cant use Enel's bounty to gauge his strength.No,since it doesnt fit the argument of the Enel supporters.


    Just the mere destructive power of Enel's df is enough for me to classify him as top tier. Ok, not quite but he's on it's doorstep. His major weakness is he's overconfident, inexperienced and doesn't know shit about the life below.
    It is enough for you,because you lack analytical skills and you go purely by whats been visually impressive and not by logic.

    I've repeated like a million times that people like Enel or Croc who only have strong logias,but their physical skills suck wont be anything compared to the real top-tiers.People like you or Cross were saying that i was underestimating him.

    Now the manga itself via Pekoms,made it even more obvious that it already was.Logia users who only rely to their df are useless in the NW.Enel might have a greater fruit than Caribou,but it hardly means anything.

    Pit him against current Sanji for example.The gy who's physical stats are lower than pre TS base Luffy's wouldnt be able to even see his movements.He'd be one shotted.IAnd you compare him with guys leagues above Jimbe Sanji,Luffy or Ace.Guys like Rayleigh or Aka.It was somewhat funny when you couldnt understand that before the timeskip,but now you are just being thick headed.

  6. #6
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    Ace should be stronger than Enel? How come? What has Ace done to make you think of that?

    For me, it was actually the downfall of Ace's development when he became a WB pirate. He lost his desire to prove himself thus losing a little motivation to become stronger. At the end of the day Ace only wanted to be accepted, to have a family and it got fulfilled. Yes he was still developing but imo, not as much as he should be. And it's not like Jinbei is slacking off or something. Yes he's older and his progress should be slower but he has more reason and motivation as he needs to be as strong as he can be to protect FI.

    Even if we go back to the war, Both Ace and Jinbei could only give it that much to the Admirals. As far as I can see it, their power level is still about the same. If only Ace was confirmed to have fully mastered haki then I would favor him but still not that much.

    Yeah going further above 500 mil is hard but like I said a hefty amount of Ace's bounty was due him being son of Dragon. Ace could easily have a 450 mil bounty based on his personal strength at that time then an added of a 100 mil because of Roger's blood running in his veins.

    The question was hypothetical. I'm not saying Oda wouldn't think something like "Enel will have a 500 mil bounty coz he would have attacked Marijoa and killed a tenryubitto so his threat level would be really high" but that sounds illogical to me. I'm just saying more than likely it was based purely on strength and disregarded the rest. This not a fact but this is my opinion on it. And you can't say that Oda would have considered it either. We both got no proff on that.

    I don't remember saying Enel was top tier but I probably did so I'm gonna restate my opinion on it. If Admirals are top tiers then Enel would be just below it. I have changed my mind after seeing the war and saw the Admirals do their stuff outside of their DF's.

    Lol, yeah their bodies might be weak but not that weak as you think. Croc took a full blow from freaking Joz and still got back up. I don't know how strong Pekoms is but I don't think he could top Joz in terms of physical strength. Croc got beaten up by pre gear Luffy but hell it took a lot. If croc took Luffy seriously, Luffy wouldn't even land any significant punch. Croc can make up for defense so I would still favor him over Pekoms. I could change my mind until I see more feats from lion face though.

    Enel took a reject dial to the heart and survived. Luffy punched him using an unconventional technique and Enel rises yet again. Yes he's not the toughest guy out there but he could take a few before going down. And it will take a lot of effort to land anything if Enel actually fight seriously and drop the "I'm god and no one is stronger than me" attitude.

    I've already stated this but you seem to ignored it but I already admit that his lack of knowledge and experience would be his downfall. He would be underestimating each and every opponent he faces. If he would learn about CoC and other stuff in the sea, his mind would be prepared and would do just fine. Still not on Admiral level but close to it. Certainly above VA for sure.

    I don't recall comparing Enel to Rayleigh and Aka. Rayleigh is obviously stronger and I only compared Enel's and Akainu's df power and it pure destructive force.

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  7. #7
    Legendary Member halaros536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Ace should be stronger than Enel? How come? What has Ace done to make you think of that?
    He was able to fight equally with Jimbe near the sea.As for why Jimbe would own Enel see my Sanji reference lower in my post.

    For me, it was actually the downfall of Ace's development when he became a WB pirate. He lost his desire to prove himself thus losing a little motivation to become stronger. At the end of the day Ace only wanted to be accepted, to have a family and it got fulfilled. Yes he was still developing but imo, not as much as he should be. And it's not like Jinbei is slacking off or something. Yes he's older and his progress should be slower but he has more reason and motivation as he needs to be as strong as he can be to protect FI.
    Jimbe was much more of a static character are you gonna try to deny that?Are you gonna say that Jimbe would somehow progress as fast as Ace?

    Even if we go back to the war, Both Ace and Jinbei could only give it that much to the Admirals. As far as I can see it, their power level is still about the same. If only Ace was confirmed to have fully mastered haki then I would favor him but still not that much.
    Both Ace and Jimbe were totally weak compared to the admirals,so i dont know what do you hope to prove with this.

    And i'm not denying that he and Jimbe were on similar levels.Its just that Ace should be the stronger of the two.

    Yeah going further above 500 mil is hard but like I said a hefty amount of Ace's bounty was due him being son of Dragon. Ace could easily have a 450 mil bounty based on his personal strength at that time then an added of a 100 mil because of Roger's blood running in his veins.
    Nah 100 mill bounty is a great difference after what we learned about the 500 mil mark.Point taken though.


    The question was hypothetical. I'm not saying Oda wouldn't think something like "Enel will have a 500 mil bounty coz he would have attacked Marijoa and killed a tenryubitto so his threat level would be really high" but that sounds illogical to me. I'm just saying more than likely it was based purely on strength and disregarded the rest. This not a fact but this is my opinion on it. And you can't say that Oda would have considered it either. We both got no proff on that.
    I'm not saying that Oda would have thought of a specific event like this,but he would take into consideration his character.And there must be a reason why he said 500 mil at most.Why would he limit him if a crazy action that he hadnt thought then could just simply make his bounty 560?Its clear that even 500 was much for him.Hence i take Ace's bounty as suggestive though his origin might have raised it.

    Yes neither of use has "proof",but its much more reasonable to assume that Oda of all people who take that in acccount.


    I don't remember saying Enel was top tier but I probably did so I'm gonna restate my opinion on it. If Admirals are top tiers then Enel would be just below it. I have changed my mind after seeing the war and saw the Admirals do their stuff outside of their DF's.
    No,you said that he's close or something similar.Here's your post:

    Just the mere destructive power of Enel's df is enough for me to classify him as top tier. Ok, not quite but he's on it's doorstep
    He isnt there.

    Lol, yeah their bodies might be weak but not that weak as you think. Croc took a full blow from freaking Joz and still got back up. I don't know how strong Pekoms is but I don't think he could top Joz in terms of physical strength.
    Of course he isnt stronger than Jozu.I'm not reffering to his feat of owning Carribou.I'm talking about his statement that those who only have a strong logia wont survive in the NW or something along those lines.

    And Croc with a single hit was almost out of battle.Not to mention that obviously that wasnt Jozu's mmost powerfull hit not even near.I agree on Croc being stronger than Arabasta Luffy,but you must not be in your right mind to think that an admiral level fighter like Jozu couldnt muster enough power to one shot the guy who got brought down by Luffy,whose hits should feel like a mosquito bite to even post TS Sanji.And yeah Luffy had the power to bring Croc down,thats why he managed to do it.

    Its common in this manga that people wont use near their strongest attacks to people much weaker than them.Luffy is obviously not putting all his strength when he hits fodder marines or when he hit Coby,BB obviously wasnt trying his hardest when he smashed Luffy's face on the floor,Mihawk when he was attacking Luffy,etc.

    Not to mention that this particular move Jozu used is more likely just used to start a battle or push someone aside,which was the reason he attacked Croc back then.I mean try to run with your forearm extended like this and see if you can muster enough power.


    Enel took a reject dial to the heart and survived. Luffy punched him using an unconventional technique and Enel rises yet again. Yes he's not the toughest guy out there but he could take a few before going down. And it will take a lot of effort to land anything if Enel actually fight seriously and drop the "I'm god and no one is stronger than me" attitude.
    You dont seem to realize that we have left Skypeia arc behind since a long time.Those feats you're mentioning were impressive back then,but are irrelevant now.Him surving hits from that Luffy is a laughable feat when g2 Luffy is many times stronger than that,post TS Luffy could fodderize pre TS g2 Luffy and he's still far from the top.

    And him surviving the reject dial was not a feat of his great endurance or anything.His heart actually stopped,but he used hidf power to start again.

    Also answer to my point about Sanji.Does Enel even have comparable endurance to a px?Does he have reaction speed good enough to react to a guy much,much,much faster than g2 Luffy?How would he not get one-shot be Sanji?

    He would.


    I don't recall comparing Enel to Rayleigh and Aka. Rayleigh is obviously stronger and I only compared Enel's and Akainu's df power and it pure destructive force.
    You said that he's close to the top-tiers and Ray is one of them.He isnt.I've explained how even Sanji would destroy him.He's not close to the admirals or the Dark King.
    Last edited by halaros536; 03-29-2012 at 05:23 PM.

  8. #8
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Really? So that's how we decide who's stronger now huh? By who has a bigger bounty? So Ace should have kicked Jinbei's (which we now now that has a little over 400 mil bounty) ass before? Lol, if we dissect Ace's bounty I'm pretty sure most of it was due to the fact that he is Roger's son. I mean the WG was even willing to go to war just to exterminate him.

    Unlike Enel, Oda had a basis on how Ace's bounty should be because of what he has done and what he was to the sea. Enel was just a hypothetical question which was more than likely answered based on his pure strength alone.

    Just the mere destructive power of Enel's df is enough for me to classify him as top tier. Ok, not quite but he's on it's doorstep. His major weakness is he's overconfident, inexperienced and doesn't know shit about the life below.
    You really enjoy taking people out of context don't you? I said COULD not WILL in which I mean it is possible for Ace to beat Enel, but not that it would defiantly happen.
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  9. #9
    pirate hunter arisart's Avatar
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    Ok, so you think Jinbei and Sanji would one shot Enel? Is that what you saying? True Jinbei could one shot Enel or myabe two shots but actually doing it is another story.

    Pekoms said that people who only rely on their logia df would not be enough true but Enel doesn't rely on his df alone. The guy uses his haki every time. And Jinbei or Ace who until now hasn't been confirmed to be able to use/control haki would have a hard time hitting Enel right on the button. Just because you could one shot someone doesn't mean you're stronger than him in general. And before Jinbei could land any meaningful shot Enel would have thrown some of his own too and that's just bad match-up for Jinbei.

    I know you will say that Enel isn't fast enough to avoid their attacks because he couldn't even avoid Luffy's final attack. First of it's quite faster than his usual attack with his arm twisted like that and he's got an extra stretch there with the golden ball's weight that also added to it's strength. Yes it's still way slower than anything sanji could pull out of his sleeve now (Jinbei might not be able put an attack that fast, he's not a speed type anyway) but at the same time Enel wasn't fighting smart and he's out of his comfort zone there. Enel doesn't have to be that near against Luffy but he had to coz his trident is the only way to hurt him. Just imagine Enel could fight Sanji an island away. How would sanji's speed be able to catch Enel when he's that far away. And Enel's movement is fast, he's lightning after all. It's only his reaction time that's slow. He could back away when he feels if Sanji is closing in granted that Sanji would even know where his location is.

    I can agree with you on Jinbei and Ace is on the same level. That's what I'm trying to say anyway. Ace should have been much stronger than Jinbei but his progress slowed down. And if both were on the same level then just basing on strength and if both have the same threat level then Ace should also be just at 400+ mil (though I could be wrong if Oda actually put a 499 mil bounty for Jinbei lol, though I predict it's about 440-450 then could be just Ace 460). Granted that Oda even thought of Enel's might have been a threat let's say simillar to Jinbei, he would still have a higher bounty than both of them.

    I don't see his lack of physical strength as a major weakness as much as his lack of fighting experience and always being over his head. If Enel could actually see and fight some people on the sea with haki preferably and would clear his head about this "I'm God" thing and always fight smart like Law, he might actually breach the top tier column imo (not gonna hapen though). Still weaker than the Admirals due to physical disadvantage but he can be there.

    All I'm saying is it's all on just pure offensive point of view. His power is indeed comparable to the top tier characters. Overall strength maybe not because he has to work out his defense first but his offensive skills is top tier or at least knocking on it imo. I don't even see any Shichibukai, past or present outside of BB and Mihawk who could best him offensively based on what we have seen so far.

    In the end, Enel is like a gatekeeper. Stronger than most mid-tier fighters but can't be classified as top tier due to glaring weaknesses. He's half and half. One part can be top tier, the other is just mid tier.

    This is what I interpreted by what Oda means of "at the most". 500 mil is the separation of mid tiers to top tier fighters (again if we go by my idea that Oda assessed Enel's bounty purely on strength). Those who have higher than 500 mil is either a top tier or a person who is a huge threat for the WG. High bounties like 800 or 900 is not given based on personal strength anymore but as a whole crew like the emperors.

    @aggeroff, ha ha, ok you got me. Still using bounties to assess someone being able to beat another is not the best way.

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  10. #10
    Legendary Member halaros536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Ok, so you think Jinbei and Sanji would one shot Enel? Is that what you saying? True Jinbei could one shot Enel or myabe two shots but actually doing it is another story.
    Thats what i said,so obviously thats what i think.Asking me to repeat my self wont change anything.

    Why is it a different story?Whats stopping them from doing it?He cant react to them and his durability wont allow him to take one hit and keep going.

    S
    Pekoms said that people who only rely on their logia df would not be enough true but Enel doesn't rely on his df alone. The guy uses his haki every time.
    It doesnt matter.He still is too weak without it.At least if we see him in global scale.

    And Jinbei or Ace who until now hasn't been confirmed to be able to use/control haki would have a hard time hitting Enel right on the button.
    They havent but its obvious they did.Seriously Tashigi has haki and you doubt that those two do?Even if they dont,which they most assuredly do,they still are leagues above him overall,which was the point i was trying to make.Enel as far as physical abilities goes is weakshit compared even to Jimbe.

    The top-tiers who are actually dozens of times stronger than Jimbe or Iva are according to you only a little bit stronger than Enel.Yeah,no.You arent even giving arguments anyomore,you're just making excuses and you actually are ignoring all logical evidence and common sense.



    Just because you could one shot someone doesn't mean you're stronger than him in general.
    Thats exactly what it means.And its not that they could one shot him.Its that this is the only logically possible outcome.



    Seriously,just stop and think for a second about what you're typing,cause i doubt you do.Enel's physical stats are around pre TS gearless Luffy's.That makes him terribly weak on a world scale and thats a fact.Anyone who's on current Luffy's level with haki can oneshot him,just like he could oneshot pre TS Luffy.

    There's nothing to debate here.



    I know you will say that Enel isn't fast enough to avoid their attacks because he couldn't even avoid Luffy's final attack.

    First of it's quite faster than his usual attack with his arm twisted like that and he's got an extra stretch there with the golden ball's weight that also added to it's strength. Yes it's still way slower than anything sanji could pull out of his sleeve now (Jinbei might not be able put an attack that fast, he's not a speed type anyway) but at the same time Enel wasn't fighting smart and he's out of his comfort zone there. Enel doesn't have to be that near against Luffy but he had to coz his trident is the only way to hurt him. Just imagine Enel could fight Sanji an island away. How would sanji's speed be able to catch Enel when he's that far away. And Enel's movement is fast, he's lightning after all. It's only his reaction time that's slow. He could back away when he feels if Sanji is closing in granted that Sanji would even know where his location is.
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    The reason as for why he couldnt avoid Luffy's final attack is irrelevant.The point is that this was pre TS gearless Luffy and Enel was on his level.Again Enel was generally on the same level as pre TS gearless Luffy in terms of physical stats.

    These guys arent just slightly stronger than pre TS Luffy.They are tremendously stronger.How comes that you cannot comprehend a simple fact as this.Are your bias that strong that you cant use common sense?

    I don't see his lack of physical strength as a major weakness as much as his lack of fighting experience and always being over his head. If Enel could actually see and fight some people on the sea with haki preferably and would clear his head about this "I'm God" thing and always fight smart like Law, he might actually breach the top tier column imo (not gonna hapen though). Still weaker than the Admirals due to physical disadvantage but he can be there.
    Then you need to rethink.The NW is a place filled wih haki users.Enel's intangibility is useless,so he needs to be able to keep up with those guys and the only way to do that is by being strong enough.Again deal with the fact that we're not dealing with small differences,in which case we could say that yeah he might be weaker physically,but his hax can save him.We have seen that people like Post TS Luffy are many times stronger than pre TS m3 and by extention mmultiple times above Enel.Enel cant overcome such a great difference with hax.


    All I'm saying is it's all on just pure offensive point of view. His power is indeed comparable to the top tier characters. Overall strength maybe not because he has to work out his defense first but his offensive skills is top tier or at least knocking on it imo. I don't even see any Shichibukai, past or present outside of BB and Mihawk who could best him offensively based on what we have seen so far.
    No.You seem to believe that his strength might not be up there with the top-tiers but that its close.It isnt.

    His physical stats are on the same general level as pre TS gearless Luffy-Fact.
    Current Luffy is dozens of time stronger than that-Fact.
    In the NW everyone and their mothers have haki-Obvious.
    All top-tiers have haki-Painfully obvious.
    All top-tiers are leagues above current Luffy/Jimbe level people- Fact

    Conclusioin:Any top-tier can stomp Enel.Its not rocket science.




    This is what I interpreted by what Oda means of "at the most". 500 mil is the separation of mid tiers to top tier fighters (again if we go by my idea that Oda assessed Enel's bounty purely on strength). Those who have higher than 500 mil is either a top tier or a person who is a huge threat for the WG. High bounties like 800 or 900 is not given based on personal strength anymore but as a whole crew like the emperors.
    Mid tiers-High tiers and then top tiers.You cant posibly put Lucci,curent Luffy and Dofla in the same tier.

    Enel is a high tier.

    Again,you're making the same mistake as people did with the 500 mill mark.You somehow assumed that Marco cant have 800 million bounty.

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