PAST [cross] FUTURE: Senju Hashirama x Naruto Uzumaki

[POW]

People should keep in mind Naruto is a 16 year old boy he has not yet reached his prime. Hashirama was a grown ass man who's had years to perfect his powers.


If you want the fight to be even then at least wait until the end of the manga then compare him to Hashirama.

This is like comparing Sasuke a 16 year old boy to Orochimaru a 54 year man not exactly even. Even someone like Itachi who is immensely powerful is only 21 if he lived its possible he could have become even stronger.

[Aga bomBa]

People should keep in mind Naruto is a 16 year old boy he has not yet reached his prime. Hashirama was a grown ass man who's had years to perfect his powers.


If you want the fight to be even then at least wait until the end of the manga then compare him to Hashirama.

This is like comparing Sasuke a 16 year old boy to Orochimaru a 54 year man not exactly even. Even someone like Itachi who is immensely powerful is only 21 if he lived its possible he could have become even stronger.

Exactly.. imagine Itachi Uchiha being even STRONGER then he already is, that would be some crazy shit if you ask me.

- on a side note; do you think that Hashirama's scroll where the kage bunshin was written, will be used again in any way during this war??

It could be that there are more secrets written, that could benefit Naruto.. who knows.

[Rlinfamous]

Exactly.. imagine Itachi Uchiha being even STRONGER then he already is, that would be some crazy shit if you ask me.

- on a side note; do you think that Hashirama's scroll where the kage bunshin was written, will be used again in any way during this war??

It could be that there are more secrets written, that could benefit Naruto.. who knows.

I want to see Naruto go back to that Secret Scroll that taught him Kagebunshin, yes. I also want that scroll to be tied to the Senju/Rikudou in some way, similar to what the Stone Tablet was for the Uchiha.

[Sirxxx]

People should keep in mind Naruto is a 16 year old boy he has not yet reached his prime. Hashirama was a grown ass man who's had years to perfect his powers.


If you want the fight to be even then at least wait until the end of the manga then compare him to Hashirama.

This is like comparing Sasuke a 16 year old boy to Orochimaru a 54 year man not exactly even. Even someone like Itachi who is immensely powerful is only 21 if he lived its possible he could have become even stronger.

And yet Sasuke defeated Orochimaru. He also defeated 40-to-50-something year-old Danzou, who's had PLENTY of battle experience and was not coughing up his esophagus like Oro.

That's why I listed Naruto's quick adaptation as a strength--he has constantly whipped out wacky/risky strategies on-the-fly to counter/defeat his opponents. Furthermore...

Exactly.. imagine Itachi Uchiha being even STRONGER then he already is, that would be some crazy shit if you ask me.

...You guys are treating it like DBZ or something, where pushing your body to even greater limits makes the person stronger. In truth, Itachi (and to a lesser extent, Naruto and Sasuke) already hase all the power that he can/will get. Growing older at this point would only get them more battle experience that can help them combine their powers in new ways or develop new strategies or what not.

So in that way, yes they will get stronger, but it won't be because they have gained more power. So that's why I think Naruto could conceivably have the power to defeat Hashirama as he is right now. If he can come up with a "#1 unpredictable knucklehead ninja" way to apply that power (as he has many times before), you wouldn't have to wait until the end of the manga.

[POW]

Sasuke didnt fight Orochimaru in a true battle he used his Sharingan to counter his Reincarnation jutsu with a weakened opponent. Had Orochimaru been at 100% health and a true fight emerged it likely wouldn't have ended well for Sasuke.

The Danzou fight yes as they both were in good health.


In any case Naruto has a decent chance in a battle against Hashirama.

[paulbee]

My thoughts are that Hashirama is far more impressive as an individual than Naruto.

Naruto has benefited form:-

1) Uzumaki Bloodline
2) Minato's foresight (giving him the Kyuubi)
3) Jiraiya's Tutelage
4) Sage training from Toads
5) Help from Mom and dad (from beyond the grave, mark you) to gain Kyuubi's Chakra
6) SO6P's Prophesy (convincing the Bijuu to help him)
7) Kurama's Change of heart

Naruto's real true power is his own large chakra, and his ability to make friends.

I think that when you look at all the above coincidences, this is clearly not a simple case of exceeding the previous generation. It is more like being supported by and provided with Cheats by the previous generation. And funny thing is that even with all the advantages Naruto has gained with help from others, he still might not be guaranteed to defeat Hashirama in a one on one fight.

Hashirama fought The Kyuubi (Yin and Yang intact), and Madara together at the same time, and he beat them both. He just might beat a Yang only Kyuubi and Naruto combined.

[almara]

i dont think it is actually stated that hashirama fought the kyubi but i might be mistaken. The thing is, hashirama subjugated the kyubi, naruto made it into his friend, i find that much more memorable and a much greater accomplishment as no other person has done it b4, hell only 3 ppl have ever gained the level of control over a tailed beast like that and not only that, he has pretty much gotten it from ALL bijuus.

we also dont really know enough about hashirama t ostate that naruto has more benefits than hashirama, after all hashirama benefitted from his bloodline as well and im sure he had a sensei as well. we just dont know enough to make any precise assumptions about hashirama in this department atm. to use an arguement that ppl have used so often when it comes to ppl like sasuke and itachi about the sharingan, most of those things are merely tools to be used by a shinobi like a kunai.

[Hand Banana]

Sasuke didnt fight Orochimaru in a true battle he used his Sharingan to counter his Reincarnation jutsu with a weakened opponent. Had Orochimaru been at 100% health and a true fight emerged it likely wouldn't have ended well for Sasuke.

The Danzou fight yes as they both were in good health.


In any case Naruto has a decent chance in a battle against Hashirama.

Naw, we don't have to wait that long. 1st to me isn't that strong as Madara is dickriding him to be. Madara idoled the dude so of course he is going to make him seem strong. The strongest ninja in the Naruto series is easily the 4th. He made child's play out the raikage and his bro. He also tanked tobi, teleported the Kyuubi, and still had time to give baby naruto a bath, all in one night. Second ninja would be the 3rd. He tanked both the 1st and 2nd with the same powerups as Madara had. Honestly it might be a tie between him and the 4th as opposed to who was the strongest.

Now to Naruto. His strongest battle came from fighting a very fractional power of what the SOT6Ps had to offer. He already had foresight on how to defeat them. Every major battle he has fought, he's always had assistance. Fighting the Tailed beast he was told where to look for the stake. Fighting the dude with 4 hearts, he was told his strategy. Fighting Gaara he was told to force the 1st tailed beast away by awaking Gaara. he's never really battled an hard opponent on his own without help. So him going toe to toe with the first with no guidance would result in him losing easily.

[Sirxxx]

My thoughts are that Hashirama is far more impressive as an individual than Naruto.

Naruto has benefited form:-

1) Uzumaki Bloodline
2) Minato's foresight (giving him the Kyuubi)
3) Jiraiya's Tutelage
4) Sage training from Toads
5) Help from Mom and dad (from beyond the grave, mark you) to gain Kyuubi's Chakra
6) SO6P's Prophesy (convincing the Bijuu to help him)
7) Kurama's Change of heart

Naruto's real true power is his own large chakra, and his ability to make friends.

I think that when you look at all the above coincidences, this is clearly not a simple case of exceeding the previous generation. It is more like being supported by and provided with Cheats by the previous generation. And funny thing is that even with all the advantages Naruto has gained with help from others, he still might not be guaranteed to defeat Hashirama in a one on one fight.

Hashirama fought The Kyuubi (Yin and Yang intact), and Madara together at the same time, and he beat them both. He just might beat a Yang only Kyuubi and Naruto combined.

That's not a fair point to make. In the same vein, you could say that Hashirama has benefitted from:
1) Senju Bloodline that grants crazy physical energy
2) His master's tutelage (whoever the heck he/she might have been)
3) Whoever the heck taught him Mokuton
4) Some other fourth thing. etc., etc.

The last four things on your list were ONLY made possible because of Naruto's power. If anything, you should be treating those like Naruto's accomplishments, as each were likely similar in difficulty to fighting and defeating Madara.

Oh, and let's not forget that a tailed beast in partnership with a Jinchuuriki is stronger than a tailed beast on its own.

Now to Naruto. His strongest battle came from fighting a very fractional power of what the SOT6Ps had to offer. He already had foresight on how to defeat them. Every major battle he has fought, he's always had assistance. Fighting the Tailed beast he was told where to look for the stake. Fighting the dude with 4 hearts, he was told his strategy. Fighting Gaara he was told to force the 1st tailed beast away by awaking Gaara. he's never really battled an hard opponent on his own without help. So him going toe to toe with the first with no guidance would result in him losing easily.

I'm gonna use the same argument as I used on Paul: Having knowledge/foresight/cheat codes would not have done Naruto a bit of good if he was not:

A) Strong enough to actually take advantage of the information, and
B) Smart enough to incorporate the knowledge into his own battle plan

My point is: Naruto is strong and smart. Heck, Hashirama fought Madara dozens, maybe hundreds of times, and it took all that battle experience before he was finally able to put Madara down for the count.

In addition, there's no such thing as Naruto going into battle with no guidance, since he can very easily generate his own. So "lack of experience with opponent" shouldn't be a handicap for him.

EDIT: It's been about 7 minutes, and I still don't think I'm comfortable with your avatar O_O

[Hand Banana]

Same logic then can be used with Sasuke vs Naruto where they tied fighting. Of course Sasuke could have killed off Naruto at the VOTE.