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  1. #11
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    well, what about this: i have a theory that tobi is the creation of a kage bunshin using izanagi on himself (or something similar)which would explain the weird mask he is using and becoz of that the last sharingan eye is linked to him as in without it he will die. Also Tobi wouldnt be able to do this if he was "created" prior to madara activating his rinnegan. Basically the sharingan needs to be there for tobi to exist and the rinnegan give him access to some of the rinnegan's powers that he needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post

    Of Interesting Note:

    Since The Rinnegans are (IMO) Madara's originals, then that leave open the possibility for Obito fans, that The Right Eye that Tobi uses might be You Know Who's. (I am NOT saying that Tobi is Him, only that the eye might be, based on its similarity to Kakashi's eye, THAT"S ALL I'M SAYING).

    I still don't think Tobi is any real person, I think he can use Sharingans because he has Madara's Mental energy and Hashirama's cells.
    thats assuming that what tobi said to the paper girl was correct and not just a manipulative ploy to force a certain reaction out of her. personally i dont think the rinnegan(the ones retreived from nagato) is madara's but i cant safely exclude it at this point either.

    i think you are correct that tobi isnt a real person, i believe he is something like i said earlier and not the elder son or the original madara at all, it would also explain why he told naruto that he was no1.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    The two eyes are some sort of compensation for what he once had. Obviously the sharingan is not his own, cause his own eyes turned into the rinnegans. So technically he's got only one of his own eyes. I believe I have figured out the story, but I can't decide whether Tobi is Madara's real body, repaired with Hashirama tree-parts. Or if he's completely Zetsu.

    I noticed in the Konan fight as well, that the other side of Tobi's face looked black. It could be shadows, but it could also very well be the other part of the original Black Zetsu.

    Guys, what if Tobi and Black Zetsu are the remains of Madara's original body? Split in two? Obviously Black Zetsu is Madara's DNA and white zetsu is Hahirama DNA. But if the other side of Tobi's face (which we've never truly seen) is all black zetsu...

    That could mean that Madara's experiments led him to find a way to live "forever". He's had to used creation of all things to actually create Zetsu. I believe he did this shortly before his death, using his newly gained rinnegans. Btw, the rinnegans explained to Madara what the entire Uchiha tablet said. So Madara must have use some jutsu to split his chakra. Allowing him to die, but remain his soul. Which is now inside Tobi. This is why Tobi knows so much.

  3. #13
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Bones View Post
    The two eyes are some sort of compensation for what he once had. Obviously the sharingan is not his own, cause his own eyes turned into the rinnegans. So technically he's got only one of his own eyes. I believe I have figured out the story, but I can't decide whether Tobi is Madara's real body, repaired with Hashirama tree-parts. Or if he's completely Zetsu.

    I noticed in the Konan fight as well, that the other side of Tobi's face looked black. It could be shadows, but it could also very well be the other part of the original Black Zetsu.

    Guys, what if Tobi and Black Zetsu are the remains of Madara's original body? Split in two? Obviously Black Zetsu is Madara's DNA and white zetsu is Hahirama DNA. But if the other side of Tobi's face (which we've never truly seen) is all black zetsu...

    That could mean that Madara's experiments led him to find a way to live "forever". He's had to used creation of all things to actually create Zetsu. I believe he did this shortly before his death, using his newly gained rinnegans. Btw, the rinnegans explained to Madara what the entire Uchiha tablet said. So Madara must have use some jutsu to split his chakra. Allowing him to die, but remain his soul. Which is now inside Tobi. This is why Tobi knows so much.
    Pretty sure the "black" side of Tobi's face was just shadow from his mask, but it could be that he's actually part Black Zetsu as you say. Also, I'd like to assume that both halves of Zetsu are based on Hashirama's DNA, as Black Zetsu also has the ability to combine with plants. It is possible that Tobi has some of Madara's original mind, and may have Madara's original body. Tobi and Madara seem to have somewhat different personalities, but maybe it's because Tobi is older/crazier/has no soul.

  4. #14
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It quite simple, He can't Warp or become intangible without the Sharingan. No need to look any further. If the rinnegans are trully Maadara's, then he should be able to switch back and forth, or use Sharingan jutsus while in Rinnegan mode, just as the real Madara (Edo) is doing.
    Exactly.. he needs the sharingan for doin that. So, It's possible that he saved his mental energy etc. into a sharingan eye, which tobi now possesses. And that extra jutsu that you gain, after the transplant.. could be the warping jutsu. Madara said to kakashi, when he wanted to use Kamui: that won't have any effect on me. --> probably because his version is the advanced version of Kamui.

    - Though I'm wondering IF MADARA LITERALLY GAVE those eyes to Nagato. Like back in the days, when we had that discussion Paul.. did he GAVE them directly or indirectly??

    I mean: if he just TRANSPLANTED it into the sockets of Nagato, then he could've do that to any other Uzumaki's!! Why Nagato? He was a child.. so HOW could he know that Nagato would be capable of HANDLING such power?? Besides, I still believe that it's a GIVEN FROM HEAVEN, for wielding the Rinnegan.
    Madara Uchiha in his prime, manipulated his body for awakening such doujutsu.. I truelly believe that Nagato AWAKENED it himself.

    I know what I'm saying right now, contradicts what Tobi said to Kabuto; but it doens't just FIT RIGHT, do you know what I mean??

    It was mine to begin with, that's what Tobi said. What does he mean with that: those eyes literally, of " THE RINNEGAN ". Madara awoke it way before Nagato, so " it was mine to begin with ", does he mean that he was the second rikudou, but didn't had the lifetime anymore for using such powers, therefor it was mine to begin with?


    ** Is it shadow?? don't know about it yet.. the other side showed us wrinkels below the eye. I can say for sure; that 1/3 of that body, is Madara's real body.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  5. #15
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    I disagree agabomba. It makes absolute no sense for nagato to "awaken" the rinnegan on his own; why? Because he's an uzumaki, and the sage's eyes were specifically passed down to his elder son. Period.

    Nagato inherited the sage's body, which can house a bijuu, and even the rinnegan.(if he was a normal shinobi, the rinnegan would be too much, much like the sharingan has its toil on those who were not meant body for those eyes.) Meaning an uchiha body should be much more compatible for the rinnegan since the uhciha inherited the sage's eyes anyways, and it's power must be dormant within their eyes to begin with.

    Yet since nagato was an uzumaki, this emant that his body was compatible to acquire the eyes, and efficiently use them, NOT awaken them since he did not inherit the eyes from the sage, but his body can handle the eyes if they ere given to him.

    Madara transferring his eyes to nagato make MUCH MORE sense than nagato awakening the eyes he did no inherit on his own.

    The sage probably did and I believe he did "receive the eyes from heaven." But from that point on, his eyes were passed down to his elder son, and the sage's body was passed down to the younger son.

    @Roku: Dude. I meant how the sharingan can put someone in a genjutsu with a simple stare alone, something we have yet to see the rinnegan be capable of. Jerk... >:[

    Besides, you might be in danger of wrongly assuming as far as the mugen tsukuyomi is concerned. It wasn't a simple rinnegan pattern on the moon when tobi mentioned the mugen tsukuyomi technique, there was totems as well, totems which have so far only been attributed to the sharingan, not rinnegan. The tsukuyomi technique is also, so far, is a technique that we have only seen the sharingan have access to.

    The mugen technique can really only be the mangekoyu tsukuyomi technique exponentially amplified by the chakra of the juubi, reflected on the moon, rather than a technique possessed only by the rinnegan. There might be a mugen amaterasu for all we know
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  6. #16
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    we really know too little about the uzumaki clan make any real assumptions about them, you say that the sharingan and rinnegan need the spiritual energy of the uchiha and that may be true, but we dont know if the uzumakis was related to the SO6P(as many of the strengths of the uzumakis can be perceived as being both spiritual and physical in nature), all we know is that they were distant relatives of the senju, but the senjus are also distant relatives to the SO6P, so it would make some sense if the Uzumakis were related to the SO6P with the SO6P possibly being of that clan or family, making nagato more than capable of developing the rinnegan himself, you can disagree and that is fine but you cant rule it out.

  7. #17
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    I'm going to submit to the idea the sharingan and rinnegan can have separate usage. as well as the demand of chakra being reduced with lower "forms" of doujutusu, and doujutsu requirement ( whether it be killing some, certain people(s) , transplant, Hashirama cells, etc)

    tobi's eyes, not to be confused with tobi himself ( the body that we see) may have been from the original madara, and the body may be some extention of himself, and hashirma. just as madara seems to be in edo-form, abeit, tobi may possibly well be a more advanced form of what madara was going for. science. adaption. evolution.

    but back to the original question the sharingan seems to be a much more yin based doujtusu. the rinnegan seems to be more of both spiritual and physical. much like the basics of the series, that which is spiritual and physical, balanced in nature, is considered ninjutsu, but that which is more spiritual then physical, is genjutsu. the rinnegan has crazy stuff but its primitive, in terms of yin. unless of course you are the so6p.

    current reading: Naruto:shipuuden, Bleach, Fairytails, Historys strongest diciple kenichi,
    berzerk, deadman wonderland, claymore, hunter x hunter, gantz, blue exorcist, one piece, zetman, witch hunter, liar game, and vagabond ..... I need more!

  8. #18
    Senior Member zeroLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Tobi's Right eye has the indispensable property of transporting him anywhere he wants to go, and it probably allows him to perform his "Can't touch this defense". I think that he keeps it for that, and that reason alone.

    I believe the Rinnegans are The Original Madara's eyes, but powerful as they are, they can't teleport Tobi, or make him intangible, so Tobi does the logical thing and keeps both types of eyes.

    Of Interesting Note:

    Since The Rinnegans are (IMO) Madara's originals, then that leave open the possibility for Obito fans, that The Right Eye that Tobi uses might be You Know Who's. (I am NOT saying that Tobi is Him, only that the eye might be, based on its similarity to Kakashi's eye, THAT"S ALL I'M SAYING).

    I still don't think Tobi is any real person, I think he can use Sharingans because he has Madara's Mental energy and Hashirama's cells.

    Your Obito idea is interesting, Perhaps every sharingan has a unique ability, Shisui Uchiha had his uber genjutsu, Itachi seemingly(its stretch) has "weapons" that his Susanoo could use, Obito's unique ability would have been Kamui, Kakashi's current uber move so... If Tobi is using Obito's other eye it would explain why when Kakashi wanted to One Shot Tobi, he claimed it wouldnt work, maybe because if its Obito's eye, it would automatically negate it?

    A lot of assumptions but I think its at the very last plausible

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  9. #19
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Thinking about it some more, possibly, The Rinnegan can perform Sharingan Doujutsus......IF and only IF, the User has the Spiritual Body of an Uchiha, to complement the Spiritual Half of the Rinnegan.

    If this is indeed true, THEN Nagato could not do Genjutsu, or Amaterasu. ALSO Tobi, Who (IMO) is an artificial being loaded with Hashirama's power, could not use the purely spiritual aspects of the Reningan either. So Tobi needs to keep a Sharingan handy in order to spam Spiritual Effects.

    Note that Madara is not limited by this That is why he uses Susanoo.

    Now I suppose that if Sasuke somehow got Rinnegan (transplanted), he would face some limitations as he would not be able to do Rinnegan Jutsus that Nagato did, possibly.

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  10. #20
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Thinking about it some more, possibly, The Rinnegan can perform Sharingan Doujutsus......IF and only IF, the User has the Spiritual Body of an Uchiha, to complement the Spiritual Half of the Rinnegan.

    If this is indeed true, THEN Nagato could not do Genjutsu, or Amaterasu. ALSO Tobi, Who (IMO) is an artificial being loaded with Hashirama's power, could not use the purely spiritual aspects of the Reningan either. So Tobi needs to keep a Sharingan handy in order to spam Spiritual Effects.

    Note that Madara is not limited by this That is why he uses Susanoo.

    Now I suppose that if Sasuke somehow got Rinnegan (transplanted), he would face some limitations as he would not be able to do Rinnegan Jutsus that Nagato did, possibly.
    if this is true it kills sasuke getting the rinnegan, unless if the rinn increases spiritual capabilities, just as higher and higher forms of sharingan do.

    current reading: Naruto:shipuuden, Bleach, Fairytails, Historys strongest diciple kenichi,
    berzerk, deadman wonderland, claymore, hunter x hunter, gantz, blue exorcist, one piece, zetman, witch hunter, liar game, and vagabond ..... I need more!

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