One Piece 652 Discussion/653 Predictions

[cross777]

BR how did we not know that post was coming lol. also i was not motivated enough to read all that but, about moria he was once able to stand against kiadu in a fight. he just got old, fat, out of shape, and lost what he once had. now there is a chance we see a renewed moria but i doubt it, he should be alive but who knows in what shape. he is 50 years old so who knows. although i would not mind seeing him teamed up with a nova or another pirate, like croc or maybe the RA. there is a lot of stuff up in the air right now and i for one am super excited for this chapter in a day or two.

[FenixMarco]

Now you're trying to twist my words in a pathetic effort to prove me wrong?

No one needs any effort to prove you wrong. You prove yourself wrong.

I'm saying they are on the same general level,not that they are equal.There is no contradiction to that.If you wish to debate with me,try to read what i post,so that you can answer properly,instead of making yourself look like a clown.

It turned out to be pretty bad for him because Ace was far weaker than Aka.

I'm talking about Shanks who had physical strength great enough to clash equally with Wb and make the sky split alngside with him.

On the same general level means that he can give him a hard fight.

My post was a response to you,who pretty much said that because Shanks was so weak back then,he cant have gotten to the level i'm talking about.

So in short Shanks improves over time and Whitebeard stays the same as he was 20 years ago, ahh ok now I see why your so confused about this.

Show where i said that.I'm saying that they are on the same general level and that the clash between the two was shown to us for a reason and not because Shanks isnt one who can give Wb a good fight.

So the backbone of your argument is Shanks can give WB a good fight. Why would you want to send Shanks to his death? You do realize Whitebeard would MURDER him 1v1. It's like Luffy vs Sanji.

Again,show me where i said what you're claiming i did.If you dont you're making things up.

Yeah I'm just making this up, none of your post imply any of this. Your obviously not rewording anything. Just me randomly bashing your set in stone one piece logic.

I really did:

There's a reason I didn't quote that. Can't figure it out aye? Not surprising.

Luffy needed two years to go to Jimbe level.And thats where he is currently.

No one knows what Luffy needed, no one knows whats Jinbe level. You gonna start saying "general shichibukia level" now? Since we sure know how well balance they are right?

And just so you know you're not any better than Cross.

Just so you know IDGAF

I used to see you as a reasonable poster,but now you're a joke.The opinion that Luffy is strong enough to beat Big Mom anytime soon(In the story.I dont know how much time will it take for us to read it,cause Oda can speed up things, or the opposite.),is just as laughable as Cross' Croc wank ,or his "rose logia" theory.

You need to reread One Piece starting from Laboon arc.

Failed Mutineer.

[The Spaz]

Luffy needed two years to go to Jimbe level.And thats where he is currently.

It's never stated. Anywhere
Personally, I think Luffy is way stronger than Jinbe.

[arisart]

Which are very,very low and most of the shichibukai besides Croc and Moria far surpass those standards, if they exist at all.

As i've said the main reason for why the Shichibukai are picked are for their infamy.They just dont want you to be weakshit.Thats the only standard i can see.When they learned that Moria got beaten by a rookie it was obvious to them that he was far too weak.But it seems that they didnt know how strong exactly Moria was atm.

If you want me to show feats,i dont have any because we havent seen much from these guys,but that doesnt mean that we should ignore all common sense and say that pre TS Luffy should be stronger than these guys.

Anyone who has sufficient brain capacity can understand that the VAs were considered an inmortant force in a war where Luffy was considered an ant.

And they are not the second strongest marine force after the asmirals for nothing.Thats obvious.To say that those guys are on the same level as a rookie,who would get fodderized by guys who would get fodderized by any top-tier,is ludicrous.

And if you want feats,we have Onigumo handcuffing Marco.Of course,everybgody knows that Marco got caught off guards,but you're not gonna claim that someone on the same level as Luffy would do something like this to Marco even if he caught him off guard,right?

Also, two of them lolblitzed Luffy in the war.

No,but the fact that they are division leaders in the crew,which is most probably the strongest in the world,while Luffy wasnt ready to even enter to the NW is enough.

And there are different kinds of fame.Luffy was widely know, but he wasnt considered as anything more than a rookie by the strong guys and he was only considered as a threat for his potential.

Its different to be famous like Luffy and different to be famous like Vista.

Their standards are low indeed, good thing they have changed their mind and get rid off Moria. They can now actually increase the minimum level of power and infamy before they give someone a seat. I

Just like I said, his fame=strength. He's a supernova (which means a rookie of course). I didn't say he's Vista famous, he's a supernova famous.

I didn't actually say Luffy is stronger than these VA. What I'm saying is Luffy "could" beat them. He has a real chance unlike fighting someone like Akainu. He' and the VA is at the same room, the same way as Shanks and WB's is on the same room though WB is obviously stronger.

Well for an "ant", he did some incredible things in the war. He actually managed to go to the platform and helped to free Ace. Stop talking like Luffy wasn't even a factor in the war. He was a darkhorse that almost change the tides in the war.

Luffy wasn't ready to enter the NW? Lol, if other supernovas was able to enter and survive NW why can't Luffy?

Moria got beaten by luffy, didn't stand a chance against jinbei even above water where jinbei has the disadvantage. he got owned by donflamingo (yes he got help from pacificsta's). after the war.He didn't prove a thing, just cawordly taking on the weak ones and the ones that where hurt. actually the only thing complementing his strenght is his fight with kaido that he lost.
still. yes he is a strong pirate but doesn't come near a vice admiral.

Again a vice admiral comes after an admiral....you know what that means
those admirals got hell of experience then luffy, and no luffy doesn't make up that hole with fighting instincs.

yes i can say that because he couldn't touch one in the marine ford. If he was Vice admiral level
there would be no need for WB warning him that he simply throwing his life away. also Ivan gave sort of the same speach back in prison. now you gonna think what is this guy saying. but if luffy was vice admiral level it wouldn't be fitting.
fact is luffy was no where near vice admiral level at that time. A super rookie that is what he was.

though again i understand your opinion off that we haven't seen the vice admirals in real action.
but i'm going by that title. also if we take momonga for example he goes why back in time with hells of experience
you think luffy is on the same level ? pre time skip

Seems like halaros is the only one i can agree with.

about shanks and whitbebeard

WB > shanks ..even as a shanks fan i gotta admit that
but the gap is verry close though why ?

Whitebeard was old and sick. which made that gap closer

WB and Ivankov did warned him simply because they could tell what's Luffy's goal in the war. He wanted to save Ace himself therefore he is actually throwing his life away coz if that's what he wants then it isn't just captains and VA's he would be facing but the Admirals and top tier Shichibukais as well.

I'm gonna backtrack a bit here and say Luffy will beat Momonga on a good day while Momonga is on a bad day. Is Luffy stronger than Momonga, maybe not cause Momonga will beat his ass if they both on a good day but Saying Luffy and Momonga on the same sentence is totally legit. He's at the range of their level. Experience is what makes VA have the upperhand on him.

[Flare Blitz]

Stating Luffy wasn't even close to be VA-level during the war, sorry but i can't agree with that statement.
Saying that luffy wouldn't be able to do squat to them is bullshit.
The vice admiral with the scars on his face acnowledged Lucci to be the most powerfull murderweapon in CP9's history, which is why no VA would be needed. I'm not saying Lucci was VA-level but he certainly wasn't far off.

The only real problem at the time was luffy not being able to use haki.
If he did, i'm almost positive he could have given some of the VAs at the time a big run for their money.
Obviously not all of them since there is also a variety in strenght between the VAs themselves. (fr example garp)

Not many VA's have really shown any feats which would make me believe that luffy was fodder compared to them.
Sure one of them managed to handcuff Marco by surprise, but that can also be credited to his vast experience.

And all luffy really did at the was:
-dodge kuma's lazer
-dodge Mina's prison-attack
-Dodge and smack some marines and Moria's zombies.
-1hitKO a giant
-Charge through some more marines.
-get pinned down by smoker since his jet-gattling doesn't work
-dodge a few of Mihawk's attacks
-get hit by kizaru & later stopped by kizaru and Aokiji.
-& Block Sengoku's attack.
The only ones who really managed to hurt luffy were Mihawk's 1st strike and the Aokiji + Akainu (while luffy was mentally broken)

He never really battled any of them and nothing of what happened implies VA's are ways above his league.
We saw:
VA's being stopped by shishibukais
Shishibukai stopped by Squad-leaders
and Squadleaders being stopped by VAs.

So no, luffy wasn't at VA-level, but certainly not waays below.
Right now we can say he's deffinitly VA-level, and perhaps above the average VA powergrid.

[Blackriot69]

BR how did we not know that post was coming lol. also i was not motivated enough to read all that but, about moria he was once able to stand against kiadu in a fight. he just got old, fat, out of shape, and lost what he once had. now there is a chance we see a renewed moria but i doubt it, he should be alive but who knows in what shape. he is 50 years old so who knows. although i would not mind seeing him teamed up with a nova or another pirate, like croc or maybe the RA. there is a lot of stuff up in the air right now and i for one am super excited for this chapter in a day or two.

Hey, I'm still predicting she'll join the crew. Plus, I'm entitled to one crazy idea for every one of yours (which by now we've lost count lol).

Also, Moria will make a return, and I think a rather huge one. His age shouldn't have anything to do with his power. Whitebeard was 72 right? and he still kicked Marineford's a**. Also, The reason I believe we saw Moria in the state we did, was that he had become drunk with power as a Warlord, and seeing he was able to "relax" in the eyes of the WG led to him becoming weak, fat, and overall the dumb character people seem to attach to him. In my thinking, Moria, following the WG's decision to eliminate him, has now invoked what once was a ruthless pirate persona Moria once was renowned for. He did have, and may currently still have, a 320 million beli bounty, and you don't simply get lucky to earn that sort of infamy. Granted, while he did enter the NW and have his crew slaughtered by Kaido, should also take into account his mental state of piracy. If the trama was too much for him, he of course wouldn't have re-entered the seas because of the difficulty those memories would bring. However, now that the WG has once more turned against him, and he is off on his own, I believe we'll see a new Moria: ruthless, stronger (in appearance and ability), and NW captain/adventurer.

On a side note, wouldn't it be interesting if Moria returned to the NW after Marineford and is now a part of Kaido's crew? O_o




As for the discussion over the current strength level of Luffy, I feel most of this speculation is brought about because of the recent arc. So far we haven't really seen much from Luffy, or the crew for that matter, in regards to what level they have acquired these past two years, but we shouldn't discredit what they have done. The main one I want to point out is what many feel is a disappointing showing by Luffy vs Hodi. I want to mention, however, fishmen are naturally ten times stronger than average humans. Take into the amount of steroid abuse Hodi had throughout the battle scenes (the calculations had been made by xioa somewhere), and we can see just how difficult Hodi would in retrospect, be to defeat. While Luffy did land blow after blow, Hodi matched each one with numerous pills, recovering ten fold each time, no matter the power behind the attacks. So to judge Luffy's level of strength/skill/maturity at his point, based on what many people believe was a pitiful return to action following two years of training, against a foe who already had the advantage vs Luffy to start off with prior to pill popping, and trying to judge his level to this point from his actions done two years ago in a physical and mental mindf*ck, is absolute idiocy.

[Flare Blitz]

^ That's exactly what I posted 2 pages ago,
& it was me who did the calculations (also did them when the chap came out at the time)
The one just now was just to show why I don't agree with some ppl's claims that Luffy was "faaaar from being VA-level pre-timeskip"

[Blackriot69]

^ That's exactly what I posted 2 pages ago,
& it was me who did the calculations (also did them when the chap came out at the time)
The one just now was just to show why I don't agree with some ppl's claims that Luffy was "faaaar from being VA-level pre-timeskip"

Ahhhhh. I shall give give credit where credit is due. I'm neutral as far as the debate....simply waiting to see where Luffy takes himself in future chapters.

[halaros536]

So in short Shanks improves over time and Whitebeard stays the same as he was 20 years ago, ahh ok now I see why your so confused about this.

I never said,nor implied such a thing.The fact that you're making up things that i did not say to prove me wrong,clearly shows that you know that you really cant do such a thing.


I dont know if Wb kept getting stronger, or not.I was disagreeing with you who said that because Shanks was so much weaker than him back then,he couldnt have caught up to him after some decades.

So the backbone of your argument is Shanks can give WB a good fight. Why would you want to send Shanks to his death? You do realize Whitebeard would MURDER him 1v1. It's like Luffy vs Sanji.

Yeah Shanks would die.So?My point was that emperors are on a level where they can give Wb a really hard fight.Nothing more,nothing less.

There's a reason I didn't quote that. Can't figure it out aye? Not surprising.

Why dont you enlighten me?

No one knows what Luffy needed, no one knows whats Jinbe level. You gonna start saying "general shichibukia level" now? Since we sure know how well balance they are right?

No just because you choose to ignore facts,does not mean that they arent there.

Luffy being fodder to Jimbe pre TS and only managing to reach his level after two years,is a fact.

We also know that Jimbe would get stomped badly by any admiral level opponent.

It's never stated. Anywhere
Personally, I think Luffy is way stronger than Jinbe.

Not everything needs to be stated in order to be true.

You believing that,wont change the fact that their short encounter was of fighters who are on the same level.If Luffy was way stronger than him,he would have brushed him off effortessly.He wouldnt have his hit blocked without Jimbe moving an inch from his position and then he wouldfnt have got hit like that.

If you seriously believe that Jimbe would do that to an admiral level opponent,you're being deluded.

I didn't actually say Luffy is stronger than these VA. What I'm saying is Luffy "could" beat them. He has a real chance unlike fighting someone like Akainu. He' and the VA is at the same room, the same way as Shanks and WB's is on the same room though WB is obviously stronger.

Well for an "ant", he did some incredible things in the war. He actually managed to go to the platform and helped to free Ace. Stop talking like Luffy wasn't even a factor in the war. He was a darkhorse that almost change the tides in the war.

He was a non factor.I cant believe that you're trying to ignore, that the only reason that Luffy made it to the platform was, because of his luck and because of having someone protecting him or saving him just in time.What he did was not because of his strength.In fact this war made him realise how weak he was.

The same cannot be said about the Vas,who were obviously people that mattered a lot in the war.


The Vas are those who are right below the admirals.Them being on the same level as a rookie is an absurd idea.

So,would someone who is on the same ballpark as the supernovas be able to handcuff Marco?

What you claim, makes no sense at all.


In addition,there should be a reason for why we didnt see pre TS Luffy having a real fight with a Va.One is that they are insignificant and Luffy will never fight them seriously,since current Luffy he would stomp anyone who is on the same level he was pre TS,or that they'll be major opponents in the NW before Luffy reaches admiral level.If you believe the first, that thats what Oda's planning for guys like Onigumo,then you need to give this a second thought.

Luffy wasn't ready to enter the NW? Lol, if other supernovas was able to enter and survive NW why can't Luffy?

I'm not saying he couldnt survive,i'm just saying he wasnt ready for it.I think there is a reason as for why the had to go through the timeskip before entering the NW.

I mean the others survived but with what cost?For all we know they might have lost many crew members in those two years and i'm sure that would have happened if Luffy entered two tears ago aswell.

I'm gonna backtrack a bit here and say Luffy will beat Momonga on a good day while Momonga is on a bad day. Is Luffy stronger than Momonga, maybe not cause Momonga will beat his ass if they both on a good day but Saying Luffy and Momonga on the same sentence is totally legit. He's at the range of their level. Experience is what makes VA have the upperhand on him.

Post TS i would agree.Saying that pre TS Luffy is on the same ballpark as the Va's,atleast those who seems to be the stronger ones, is asinine.

[arisart]

He was a non factor.I cant believe that you're trying to ignore, that the only reason that Luffy made it to the platform was, because of his luck and because of having someone protecting him or saving him just in time.What he did was not because of his strength.In fact this war made him realise how weak he was.

The same cannot be said about the Vas,who were obviously people that mattered a lot in the war.


The Vas are those who are right below the admirals.Them being on the same level as a rookie is an absurd idea.

So,would someone who is on the same ballpark as the supernovas be able to handcuff Marco?

What you claim, makes no sense at all.


In addition,there should be a reason for why we didnt see pre TS Luffy having a real fight with a Va.One is that they are insignificant and Luffy will never fight them seriously,since current Luffy he would stomp anyone who is on the same level he was pre TS,or that they'll be major opponents in the NW before Luffy reaches admiral level.If you believe the first, that thats what Oda's planning for guys like Onigumo,then you need to give this a second thought.

I'm not saying he couldnt survive,i'm just saying he wasnt ready for it.I think there is a reason as for why the had to go through the timeskip before entering the NW.

I mean the others survived but with what cost?For all we know they might have lost many crew members in those two years and i'm sure that would have happened if Luffy entered two tears ago aswell.

Post TS i would agree.Saying that pre TS Luffy is on the same ballpark as the Va's,atleast those who seems to be the stronger ones, is asinine.

It was a war where allies supposed to help each other and enemies gang up on you. Even WB got some help from his commanders at some point. So anyone who has a chance to go up the platform will be given help and Luffy was one of the first three who was able to get there. If Usopp got the same help Luffy did, he won't even get past the giant marine who Luffy Ko'ed by gear third. The more you downplay Luffy in the war the more you downplay not just the VA's but the whole marines aswell. It is what it is Hal, Luffy did saved Ace ass out there until Akainu had to step in. He was a key player in the war until an Admiral had to erase his efforts.

Again luck is part of Luffy's ability too. Even Roger had luck on his side.

The war made everyone how weak Luffy was true but it also shows where his strength stands up to them. It's obvious he's nowhere near an Admiral but in my eyes he could bang with an average VA. Again we haven't seen any real feats from them so it's just coming from my perspective.

He mattered to the WB pirates just as the VA's mattered to the marines. If Luffy wasn't then none of them would have helped him in the first place. He's not that strong sure but strong enough to make a difference that even WB himself believed.

Yes they VA's are below Admiral but that's just on rank. Their power level is far and wide until someone do something that makes we believe otherwise.

Actually out of those VA's Onigumo seems to be the real deal and probably an above average VA though handcuffing a distracted and wounded Marco while facing an Admiral ain't that impressive as it seems. No Supernova can do what Onigumo did though aside from Luffy. You need at least an above average soru speed to be able to sneak up on him. None of the supernova is a speed type as far as I can see except for Luffy. Kid could sneak up and use magnetism to attack from a distant but he can't control a seastone, only metal handcuffs. This doesn't mean that they are weaker just because they are slower. If that's the case then Kizaru should have been the strongest and not WB.

Saying Luffy couldn't even touch a VA (like Athary said) make much lesser sense to me.

Imo, current Luffy is somewhere in between a VA an a Admiral. Those VA's are reserved to Luffy's crew like Franky. It is what level they need to be at least if they want their captain to be PK. Luffy just challanged Big Mom so he'll be fighting her commanders for now. The marines will be the final fight so those people there are reserved for the SH. So each and everyone will have a named opponent when they finally make war to the marines.