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  1. #21
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    Itachi would rape Jiraiya, theres no question about that.

    Now Kisame VS Jiraiya...thats a battle i would like to see. Jiraiya would probably ultimately win, but probably be on the verge of death or extremely wounded.

  2. #22
    Senior Member micoreth's Avatar
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    Jiraiya's strength came from his use of knowledge. He was one the best fight strategists in the whole series. We have seen so many times in the series that this manga's fights are based on strategic advantage instead of sheer power clash. Some aspects that make a ninja almost invincible against %99 of other ninjas may not be a problem for another just because of its blood traits or fighting style or just good observation and strategy. Is it possible for me to predict the outcome of an Itachi - Jiraiya fight? Definitely not, but i can sure as hell say that claiming Itachi would rape Jiraiya is just an overly simple comment based on the most elemantary and unsufficient data, which is just the results of fights against same opponents. Jiraiya was like a spy for konoha and he knew Itachi very very well, unlike pain. That knowledge alone is enough to see that an Itachi - Jiraiya fight would be troublesome.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by micoreth View Post
    Jiraiya's strength came from his use of knowledge. He was one the best fight strategists in the whole series. We have seen so many times in the series that this manga's fights are based on strategic advantage instead of sheer power clash. Some aspects that make a ninja almost invincible against %99 of other ninjas may not be a problem for another just because of its blood traits or fighting style or just good observation and strategy. Is it possible for me to predict the outcome of an Itachi - Jiraiya fight? Definitely not, but i can sure as hell say that claiming Itachi would rape Jiraiya is just an overly simple comment based on the most elemantary and unsufficient data, which is just the results of fights against same opponents. Jiraiya was like a spy for konoha and he knew Itachi very very well, unlike pain. That knowledge alone is enough to see that an Itachi - Jiraiya fight would be troublesome.
    Actually Jiraiya didn't know Itachi that well, he didn't even recognize Amaterasu until after he saw Itachi use it, which means he almost certainly didn't know about Susanoo and the divine weapons. Jiraiya was a very good strategist but so is Itachi, in terms of intelligence Itachi is beyond Jiraiya. Itachi was a total master at reading his opponents and figure out their weaknesses, just look at the fight with Nagato to see how quickly he pinpointed how to overcome each of Nagato's abilities in a matter of seconds. Jiraiya took a significantly longer amount of time to discover those same weaknesses.

    You are right to say that to say it is overly simple to say that Itachi would easily destroy Jiraiya. Although, judging by their abilities though and judging by the opponents they have faced and the difficulty they had with those opponents it isn't that unreasonable to predicit a winner. Itachi defeating Orochimaru easily is not the be all end all but it is significant considering that every indication makes Jiraiya and Orochimaru comparable in power. As for knowledge and skill, if anything I would say Itachi has the advantage, everyone acknowledges Itachi's genius and his ability to quickly figure out his opponents, often without every dealing with them previously, speaks for itself.

    Many people talk as though Sage mode would be a big threat to Itachi but aside from possibly countering basic genjutsu I don't see how it would be that much of a problem for him. We have already seen Itachi take on characters who are physically on par with Jiraiya in Sage mode and counter abilities that are of comparable raw power. Itachi showed to problem matching blows with Naruto in his Kyuubi enhanced form and Killerbee (who are two of the strongest and fastest characters). Itachi has also easily destroyed Orochimaru's hydra (who is larger and more powerful than Manda) I don't see how any summoning of Jiraiya's would be a problem. I have seen many people claim that Ma and Pa's experience would be an issue but Deva Path Pain basically owned them as soon as he had witnessed their ability once. Itachi is also a master of countering genjutsu and discovering weaknesses in his opponents, I really don't see how Ma and Pa's genjutsu would be a threat to Itachi. At best I would say Jiraiya's summons could be used as fodder to get Itachi to use some of his more powerful abilities but judging by how quickly Itachi got rid of Nagato's summons, I really don't see how that would be enough to effect Itachi much.

  4. #24
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    I'm personally glad we have someone as unbiased and reasonable as artifice, since my comments run the risk of being viewed as "fangirl" posts when it comes to discussing itachi considering my name and signature, though i would argue differently. i was very open minded when stating if anyone has a chance to take down itachi, it would be someone of minato's caliber, not sannin; and even then minato wouldn't the luxury of underestimating itachi since it would result in minato's defeat. but to get back on topic.

    artifice obviously knows what he(she?) is talking about.

    @rlin: if itachi honestly attempted to capture naruto, trust me, it is safe to say he would have succeeded.

    this is itachi we're talking about. did he really have planned in his mind to kill itachi and gai suddenly messed up his plans. or was he able to sense gai nearby ahead of time, and made a show so kisame wouldn't suspect. itachi is amazing with setting up illusions, he had sasuke and kisame fooled, just about everyone actually. like kakashi said, "why didn't he just kill me?" if itachi wanted kakashi dead, he would dead, it really is that simple.

    people should realize just how efficient itachi is, as a true shinobi should be. in their first encounter, did orochimaru have the luxury of using his hydra technique? what about his edo tensei? no. itachi made sure to acquire a checkmate in his first move, having orochimaru's life in his palm, and yet chose to let him live, forcing orochimaru to run with his leg between his leg. orochimaru knew that itachi was stronger and continuing the fight would prove lethal. very much in the same way, jiraiya would've ended up rather quickly in the same position, at itachi's mercy, without the opportunity to even attempt entering sage mode.

    itachi doesn't waste pieces, he goes straight to the kill, to the checkmate, as efficiently as possible, as quickly as possible. he did it to deidara, he did it to orochimaru, he did it to nagato, and he would do it to jiraiya.

    minato has the luxury of fighting just as efficiently, which would make a fight between them all the more epic. just like a fight between a healthy jiraiya and a healthy orochimaru would be epic.

    but jiraya(as impressive as he is) vs itachi? lol... please.
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  5. #25
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    i love how you state that artifice is unbiased and reasonable(sarcasm), Stare and then you follow it up with this BS. fact of the matter is, itachi was sick and almost blind, something that could be used against him, as a blind shinobi is a useless shinobi, jiraiya didnt have these disadvantages, and if you take somethinhg like jiraiya's sage mode into account, then it pretty much rules out Itachi's most powerful weapon: genjutsus. Ofc Itachi has other weapons to use but if he overuses his sharingan, he will go blind. When you take itachi's weaknesses into account you will see that as amazing as itachi is, the one jiraiya met is nothing more than a weak and almost blind version of Itachi, and against that version jiraiya would definately win, now if it was the "freshly awaken MS" itachi, it would be an entirely diferent matter where itachi would have a minor advantage.

  6. #26
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    1.i love how you state that artifice is unbiased and reasonable(sarcasm), Stare and then you follow it up with this BS.2. fact of the matter is, itachi was sick and almost blind, something that could be used against him, as a blind shinobi is a useless shinobi, jiraiya didnt have these disadvantages, and3. if you take somethinhg like jiraiya's sage mode into account, then it pretty much rules out Itachi's most powerful weapon: genjutsus.4. Ofc Itachi has other weapons to use but if he overuses his sharingan, he will go blind. 5.When you take itachi's weaknesses into account you will see that as amazing as itachi is, the one jiraiya met is nothing more than a weak and almost blind version of Itachi,6. and against that version jiraiya would definately win, 7.now if it was the "freshly awaken MS" itachi, it would be an entirely diferent matter where itachi would have a minor advantage.
    1. i like how you avoided all the obviously valid points artifice brought up. it's also a shame you think of my post as BS, and instead of arguing against my points, you bring up a retarded argument in which i'm about to cover below. notice, though i find your response incredibly immature, i will choose to follow. hopefully you're not trolling here.

    2. itachi was not only a sick shinobi, he was slowly losing his eyesight as well. really almara, THAT'S going to be your argument!?!!? if anything, it only makes itachi THAT MUCH more impressive. it's also funny you say a blind shinobi is a useless shinobi(though i agree that would be the case for MOST shinobi), considering that itachi effortlessly took down orochimaru while using his hydra technique(which is said to be his strongest technique in kishi's databook, even more so than edo tensei) while being blind. when it comes to jiraiya neither being sick or blind, you're right, though he had other disadvantages since shinobi have diofferent strengths and eakness, that's the interesting dynamic present in a battle between ninjas in this manga. to add to that, itachi is an expert at discovering disadvantages and initiating effective battle tactics. fighting itachi alone is a disadvantage by itself

    3. as if jiraiya would even have the chance to gather natural energy let alone enter into sage mode while facing itachi. did not deidara have the chance of using his c3 clay jutsu while fighting itachi? didn't orochimaru have the chance to use edo tense when facing itachi? this is essentially part of itachi's fighting style, getting it done as quickly and as efficient as possible, NOT drawing out the battle and letting the enemy use all their techniques. there has only been one person itachi fought that way and it was sasuke, for the mere reason that itachi wasn't honestly trying to take his life, because if he was , sasuke would be dead right now. if itachi was honestly trying to capture naruto, he would be caught right now. gai, kureini, asuma, kakashi vs kisame and itachi, the konoha nin wouldn't stand a chance. as a side note, sage mode does not negate itachi's impressive genjutsu skills, perhaps only at the standard sharingan level. to cancel a genjutsu takes a few seconds through either a bijuu or toads. the mangekoyu tsukuyomi technique, especially in itachi;s hands, an instant alone is needed for at least three days of torture, which would result in the breakdown of jiraiya's spirit. knowing full well itachi was probably taking it easy on kakashi and spared his life.

    4. that's the issue you're failing to grasp, itachi has never overused his sharingan except when fighting sasuke and we all know why. it's not his style to do such a thing, he doesn't toughen it out by relying on his stamina, itachi goes straight to the kill which is what makes his so deadly.

    5. all this impressiveness happens to come from an itachi that is sick and blind, which would make him into an uchiha demigod if he was healthy and had EMS. but that's beside that point; the point is, even if itachi is sick and has worsening vision, you don't dare to underestimate him because it will cost you your life, that goes to deidara, orochimaru, and jiraiya. itachi is STILL amazing, because of how flawlessly he takes out s-class nin, orochimaru stated it simply, that man is stronger than me. and jiraiya is on orochimaru's level, sage-mode included and all.

    6. you're foolish, that's the same version of itachi that took down deidara like child's play, took down orochimaru as if he was a genin, never ceased in amazing tobi. but suddenly itachi doesn't have what it takes down a clutz like jiraiya!? LOL. that's just stupid(look up the definition).

    7. again, you're being retarded. itachi would take out jiraiya, let alone a healthy version of itachi. and to think he was only the age of 13 when he awakened his MS, already an ANBU captain; fresh into pubery and such a badass already, truly an uchiha prodigy, a genius among a clan of geniuses. his brain wasn't fully developed, neither was his physical body, nor his peak as a shinobi. itachi is a whole other level, and i won't apologize for saying the truth, itachi is simply on another league than jiraiya or the sannin. there is no "minor" advantage, it would be itachi raping jiraiya, simple as that. get over it.


    minato vs itachi is a much more interesting and valid discussion. itachi vs jiraiya is a joke of a thread.
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  7. #27
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    ok, ill bite, StareIntoMYSharingan.

    1)
    you should actually try reading my post, if you had, you would know that i wasnt commenting on artifice, i was commenting on you. On your retarded comments, calling some1 unbiased and reasonable, when it is obvious that the only reason you find that person unbiased and reasonable is becoz he just happens to think the same as you do, which makes you anything but unbiased and reasonable, and just so you know, artifice in his particular post was anything but unbiased, but hey he agreed with you, so he has to be the most sane, reasonable, unbiased and intelligent person in the world, right?

    2)
    i think you are greatly underestimating Itachi weaknesses, being close to blind and not far off from becoming blind and also being sick, isnt just something you overcome. I do agree that you have a point about itachi overpowering orochimaru and deidara, but when it came to deidara, it happened at a point where his weaknesses werent at the level they were at the time he went up against jiraiya and for the orochimaru, it was happening when he was actually dying and was more than willing to give away his eyesight to purge sasuke of oro's influence due to the simple fact that it was his plan as disposing of oro would cause sasuke to develop MS.

    3)
    yes, you are right, it didnt happen in the oro and deidara fights, but you cant say it wouldnt have happened in a jiraiya fight. When it comes to battle experience jiraiya FAR exceed itachi, having fought in wars and the simple fact that itachi had actually already fallen into jiraiya's trap, if itachi had stayed and fought, he would have died, itachi only survived against jiraiya becoz he ran like a little girl, but you know the saying: he, who fights and runs away, lives to fight another and you assume that jiraiya is just going to look into itachi's eyes, when jiraiya is perfectly aware of the strengths of the sharingan, he might be a tool, but he isnt stupid. Also, i find jiraiya to be quite smart, using itachi and kisame's confidence that their diversion was successful, against them to set up his trap. ALso you are also underestimating gai, kakashi, and the others. Gai in particular would be absolutely perfect to fight against itachi, as he would go 7 gates, use his special sharingan countering fighting style and litterally have taken itachi out or atleast keep him at bay, so the others could have taken care of kisame.

    4)
    and you fail to grasp that the blindness comes from cumulative use of the sharingan, and he has used it alot. and the reason why he tries to finish fights fast, isnt bcoz it is his style, it is bcoz he has to, as failure to do so would cause the blindness to get closer.

    5+6)
    lol you make it seem like jiraiya would just charge in without thinking who it is he is up against. Jiraiya isnt just some random shinobi. You're foolish not to understand that, jiraiya without sage mode and i would agree he would be equal to oro, but with it he would be superior, you seem to think that he is equal to oro, but he didnt want to kill oro, and that is a huge disadvantage, he didnt even use his greatest weapons against oro. i think you are greatly underestimating jiraiya but you are right that even a blinded and sickly itachi is still an amazing shinobi, but all jiraiya had to do against itachi would be to prolong to a point where itachi goes blind(the simple fact that itachi cant afford to use his MS can easily be used against itachi) and i think jiraiya is a good enough shinobi to do atleast that.

    7)
    lol and you call me retarded. as i said in my post, which you clearly overlooked, a healthy itachi is an entirely different matter, and i agree with that, and you would know if you werent such tunnelvisioned itachi fanboi. ALso i like your discription of itachi, calling him a genius among a clan of geniuses(which i think kakashi called sasuke, if i remember correctly) but if that is true, then per definition kakashi must be a greater shinobi since he has achieved the same but without something like sharingan, infact kakashi became a chuunin 4 years b4 itachi but hey, when you are such a great fan boi of itachi, then only the achievements of your fan boi'ism is valid, right?

    oh and the whole minato vs itachi is a joke tbh, minato would finish off itachi with ease tbh.

  8. #28
    Sex on Fire Flare Blitz's Avatar
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    kisame:
    Would probably lose since his advantage in water wouldn't rlly work against jiraiya in sage-mode
    + If he were to absorbe Jiraiya's chakra when he's in sage-mode he'd probably have turned into a frog.

    Itachi:
    I can't see any weapon in Jiraiya's arsenal that Itachi wouldn't be able to handle (taijutsu, genjutsu, ninjutsu nor intellect-wise)
    As some mentioned before, Jiraiya's stamina is the only real possible threat to itachi;
    IF Jiraiya were able to somehow handle Itachi's Genjutsu's and avoid Tsukuyomi & Susanoo + avoid/seal amaretsus for long enough, then perhaps Jiraiya might have had a chance of winning, still a stale-mate is still more probable if he'd succeed.

  9. #29
    Personally, while I strongly dislike the Uchiha characters, all of them: I see Itachi beating Jiraiya, though because of Jiraiya's unique arsenal I can see him Seriously/permanently injuring/maiming Itachi to the point that he would no longer be a threat.

    People always point out Orochimaru... however all of the Sannin have very particular strengths and weaknesses, and Jiraiya's weaknesses are not Orochimaru's weaknesses.

    Kakashi would do poorly against Itachi, Gai would do a lot better. But if you asked who would win Kakashi or Gai, you get stuck...
    I am an artist, and my medium is death. I'm about to create my masterpiece :s



    Fan of the Rasengan Doujutsu theory, even though it's dead. Although, he does have the special Uzumaki clan blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Because he's the hero the shinobi world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Naruto.

  10. #30
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    Honestly I don't really see how Jiraiya can be on an equall playing field with Itachi. Just looking at their abilities alone, Itachi's seem superior in almost every instance. For example, Jiraiya's fastest ranged attack is his hair needle attack, compared to Itachi's Amaterasu. In a side by side comparison Itachi seems to be better in almost everyway aside from stamina but that hasn't been much of a problem for him because as explained his chakra and combat efficiency is so high.

    When you look at their battle records Itachi has totally dominated some of the same opponents that Jiraiya had trouble with (look at how Itachi dealt with Orochimaru and Nagato compared to how Jiraiya did). I could, and have in the past, listed dozens of reasons why I believe Itachi is more powerful so at this point I think it would redundant to go into a lot of detail but it comes down to the basic concept that Itachi has shown many abilities that should, by all indications, be very difficult for Jiraiya to counter. Jiraiya on the other hand hasn't really shown anthing that Itachi wouldn't be able to counter. Jiraiya struggled against 3 of pains bodies, yet when Itachi took on Nagato (who Naruto admitted was using his abilities on a higher level than ever before, Itachi took him down with apparent ease. Jiraiya had quite a bit of trouble finding Pains blind spots and disabling them, Itachi did it easily. Of course Itachi had the advantage of having Naruto and Killerbee to distract Nagato, but that doesn't change the fact that Itachi was able to hit Nagato multiple times with attacks that would have been fatal or disabling if Nagato did not have the Edo Tensei to regenerate him. Itachi also didn't take a single hit during that entire confrontation.

    It is true that Jiraiya and Orochimaru are very different in their fighting styles and that could affect the outcome of the battle somewhat but the simple fact remains that Itachi totally destroyed Orochimaru and was able to counter all of Orochimaru's abilities easily. Jiraiya might do things different but just like Orochimaru he relies heavily on powerful Summonings, based on what we have seen Itachi would be able to defeat summonings in a multitude of ways. For most he could simply use genjutsu and control them much like how Sasuke controlled Manda. Other summons would be cannon fodder for Amaterasu, if it worked on a tailed beast it will doubtlessly work on even the most powerful summons. Then there is always Susanoo. Based on what we have seen Itachi should be able to avoid most of Jiraiya's attacks easily. As we saw in his latest ecounter with Naruto he seemed to be going toe to toe with Naruto and Killer bee in tai-jutsu and that is one of the strong points of both of those characters.

    It seems to me that all of the evidence points to Itachi as being more powerful.
    Itachi had help against nagato(3 v 1) something jiraiya dont not have, he had to fight ALONE and find out whats going on, not to mention jiraiya was in pains village. Also Itachi dominated Orochimaru because he has a major weakness towards genjutsu. We didnt see a ninjutsu shoot out did we? NO so its important to understand why itachi is good against orocihmaru.

    And ofc Jiraiya wont dominate the same way because jiraiya doesnt use genjutsu and therefore it will be a more prolonged fight as it will be a taijutsu and ninjutsu shoot out.

    I wrote this post on my comp a long time ago but I remember it took me along time to write, seems to me your neglecting what jiraiya is good at and you shouldnt use orochimaru as gage for jiraiya at all. Man that really annoyed me reading that.

    You say sassano? look at jiraija skills you can see jiraiya has a counter for sassano.


    for example, Swamp of the underworld, even jiraiya was sick he submerged a orocihmaru's massive snake summons, the gorund under sassano has been soemthing that as been used to deal with sassano on many occasions in this war and with sasuke. There's other things too but didnt realise how many would forget how good jiraiya's ninjutsu is.

    dont wana get in the more details but the only thing I brought up in the skills department is genjutsu because jiraiya can handle himself just fine when it comes to ninjutsu and taijutsu.

    Itachi's bread and butter is genjutsu if that fails then itachi losses a large chuck of options for him to win fights. Wasnt expecting itachi has better ninujtrsu and taijutsu than jiraiya. No offence dude but just because itachi has the black flames that dosent mean he has better ninjutsu than jiraiya. Its not soemthing you can spam and itachi knows it, jiraiya alot of strong ninjutsu at his disposal.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Personally, while I strongly dislike the Uchiha characters, all of them: I see Itachi beating Jiraiya, though because of Jiraiya's unique arsenal I can see him Seriously/permanently injuring/maiming Itachi to the point that he would no longer be a threat.

    People always point out Orochimaru... however all of the Sannin have very particular strengths and weaknesses, and Jiraiya's weaknesses are not Orochimaru's weaknesses.

    Kakashi would do poorly against Itachi, Gai would do a lot better. But if you asked who would win Kakashi or Gai, you get stuck...
    I respect ur post a great deal the part in bold was inspiring lol




    Also for guys going with rape train on jiraiya.

    IF you think jiraiya woild get raped that just means to dont understand jiraiya skill as a shinobi. He understand his weaknesses tries to over come them, this one of main reasons he was great sensei. Orocihmaru on the other hand was not able to and opt to become an uchiha(sasuke) instead the easy way out.

    I can name the many shinobi in the manga friend and foe towards jiraiya all of which acknowldge his power. Putting aside the skills just from that alone kishi is tell you that Itachi will not rape jiraiya infact Jiraiya may infact win believe it or not.

    Comon on guys there arent any shinobi we have seen so far that rape jiraiya, try and be more objective it helps for meaningful conversation.
    Last edited by psukkar; 02-15-2012 at 05:40 AM.

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