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  1. #1
    78% Hikikomori shaggyjebus's Avatar
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    Leechers - Hate Them or Understand Them?

    Leechers are people who come to MangaShare, register on the forum, download the manga, and never post in the forums or have anything to do with MS. (That is, these are leechers on MS; there are other types, of course.)

    How do people feel about leechers? Should they be despised for downloading the series and never caring about who makes it possible for them to download the manga? Should they be understood, with people knowing that they simply want to read manga, not talk about it or thank the people at MS (because they could get the manga somewhere else, albeit perhaps not as quickly)?

    Personally, I can understand the behavior, and I imagine most people feel the same way. It's akin to liking the way a band sounds but not really caring about the band itself; however, I also imagine that there are some people out there who hate leechers, for whatever reasons there may be.

    A wider issue is whether leechers can be taken seriously, in regard to comments, suggestions, complaints, and the like. One line of logic is, "You only download the manga, so you don't really have any right to complain," suggesting that not making an effort to look around MS is tantamount to waving your right to say anything, I suppose. The flaw in this line of thinking is that it assumes that looking around MS and talking on here and such gives a person some sort of insight that cannot be gained without looking around MS. This may or not be true.

    I personally believe that a person can still have a right to complain/suggest/comment even if he/she is a leecher because he/she reads the same manga as a person who does regularly come to MS and thus may see the problems that exist, if there are any, just as well as a person who is not a leecher.

    A problem with this, I will admit, is that the leecher does not see the news posts or any other posts that explain any problems that may be occurring or did occur. My retort would be that coming on here and only replying to threads in the Naruto Theories section is the same as being a leecher in regards to news posts and the like. (Should the Naruto theory fan, then, not be taken seriously, as the leecher is not taken seriously, or should they both be taken seriously? That is the question brought up.) Still, I will admit that a person who comes on here regularly and reads the news posts does carry a bit more weight than a person who does not.

    What do you guys think?

    (Try to be constructive and somewhat intelligent here. Saying, "Leechers suck" isn't really that helpful, and saying, "Your points are stupid" is close to flaming.)
    All glory to Haruhi! The one and true God!

  2. #2
    Retired Administrator
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    It is a given in every society. But everyone has a right to an opinion. Does someone on Un-employment no longer get to vote? I mean, they take from society with out giving anything back.
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  3. #3
    Ow..my poor swollen ankle alexmcneice's Avatar
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    But how can you say that people who don't post, don't care about the people who make it possible. Be careful of sweeping statements. All you can be certain of is that people who register and don't post, don't post. Doesn't tell us much.

    EDIT - Also forgot to mention. As you can see, I have only posted 7 times, But it doesn't mean that i'm not on here everyday, looking through threads. It just means that I rarely find a thread that I feel I want to post on.
    Last edited by alexmcneice; 11-04-2007 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Forgot something!


  4. #4
    Senior Member Whitebeard's Avatar
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    I think they do appreciate what's done, they just don't care much to talk about it. Even now, I find manga discussion forums a little boring. A lot of them are probably just shy anyway.

  5. #5
    Meow. Sen's Avatar
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    I don't necessarily post a lot mainly because I find many of the threads boring. I don't particularly see the relevance in theorizing on characters, nor do I find any personal relevance in fanfic because frankly, I like what the original author/artist produces, and feel that making assumptions is disingenuous and potentially insulting to the original writer/artist. <----my opinion, not judging others' right to do as they please. I might speculate on the next upcoming manga, but that's about it. I have a job and other things to do besides sitting at my computer all day theorizing or whatever. I mean, great, have fun and all to those who do it, but bagging on people who don't necessarily want to participate in what are essentially masturbatory discussions isn't cool, either. It can be fun to theorize, but sometimes it's boring, and that's okay. I think people shouldn't have to feel forced into discussion just because they like to read something. Just because I read books, does that mean I'm required to join a book club?

    In addition, I don't read all the manga available on this site - just Bleach and Naruto, because those are the ones that I like (I've checked out the others available here and just am not really digging them). I usually only post on the Naruto or Bleach forums because well, those are the manga that I know. In addition, someone may have already said something that I want to say, so repeating what they've already said is pointless. I contribute by appreciating the original artist's work and by donating to the site as a thank-you to the admins. And many of those posting like crazy aren't always contributing financially to the site and showing what I would call "real appreciation."

    I don't even really like the term "leechers" because it's derogatory and not very accepting, which is antithetical to the idea of having open forums and community. But I also accept that it's the current standard terminology and well, not that big of a deal.

    In a nutshell, sometimes people just want to read and not yak all day about what they're reading - there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

  6. #6
    The Irish Cougar MountainLionLink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexmcneice View Post
    Also forgot to mention. As you can see, I have only posted 7 times, But it doesn't mean that i'm not on here everyday, looking through threads. It just means that I rarely find a thread that I feel I want to post on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    I think they do appreciate what's done, they just don't care much to talk about it. Even now, I find manga discussion forums a little boring. A lot of them are probably just shy anyway.
    I'm the same way, half the topics around here on the forum just do not interest me enough so that I can make a valid response. Plus many of the members like to stay in the IRC channel instead.
    Last edited by Woofcat; 11-04-2007 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Ahem, the world does not run on windows.
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  7. #7
    ³Vî¹ ¹³³7 Mao's Avatar
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    I personally once was a forum troll when I was a hardcore gamer. Since then I'm now in college, work full time, and have a gf. Therefore, I will admit that I am a leecher that does not join into the community simple because of the hassle and time it takes to build a social persona on a forum. I am very glad people make download sites for anime, manga, etc. Of course there are sites that requite registration and posts, but I feel that leehers are people of all ages and walks of life. This means that the 14 year old teenager that is not employed, paying tuition, and or spending time with a partner will simply have more time and patience to forum troll. The more aged person such as myself (23) will most likely do the minimum required in order to leech since there is less time to spend indulging your hobbies.

    As for people making comments and suggestions. I believe that everyone has a voice, but not everyone has maturity. This is what moderators are for. A major issue i have with many forums is that "nazi" moderators feel the compelling need to squash anyone with low forum posts. Seeing how I have administrated many forums over the years, I know that post counts don't mean squat if they poster is actually posting relevant information that pertains to a subject worthy of attention. The moderators simply have the duty of upholding a community that does not endorse the "flame on" attitude. Otherwise, everyone's voice is equal.

    As for people registering only to download from MS. I will without hesitation, state that I have never posted outside of the scanalation section. I do not forum troll. Instead I idle on irc and post "Thank You" on the new release threads. In that way, I feel that I at least showed that I do appreciate MS. Unless guidelines require post counts, I do not intend to join in with the forum community. Therefore, I assume I am now one of the people that would be addressed as a "leecher." So... what.
    Last edited by Mao; 11-04-2007 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Can not spell...

  8. #8
    Retired Administrator blud's Avatar
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    As forum owner, to be honest it pains me a little to see 18-19k people and only 46k posts. It pains me to see the brutal traffic spikes on a monthly view, where 3/4 of our traffic only comes here on Fridays. But at the same time I understand that this forum is still very new (it opened in July), and I believe it will grow into a very active community over the next few months/years. There aren't very many forums that have had the same number of users/posts/traffic in their beginning months, so I think we're doing ok.

    As MangaShare scanlator, the leechers don't bother me too much. The tens of thousands of downloads each manga chapter we scanlate gets is enough thanks for me. You people have made it clear to us that you very much like what we do, so we'll keep on doing it.

    As for not having a voice as a leecher, I'm guilty of snapping on someone in a feedback thread (the nakama one), but overall I think it was justified. I'm willing to listen to every suggestion no matter who is presenting it, but if a self proclaimed leecher strolls in, lays his personal opinion on the line and demands changes, we're not going to bend over and take it. I can admit that if a veteran member with 500 posts came in and gave the same suggestion the same way, we might have been a little nicer to him/her, but would it have made a difference? no, the decision would have been the same.

    We went through a period of time here at MS near the beginning where we had some "nazi" moderator decisions. I feel that this may have driven off a lot of potentially active members. These were all taken care of and I think our current mods are doing a bang up job of keeping the community in check. We try and give our members a little more freedom here in how far they can go before a mod steps in, because over-moderating is never a lot of fun.

    As always, if you have a suggestion that you think will make your experience at MS less boring, don't hesitate to post it on the thread in the feedback forum, or even PM it to me or another admin. We read everything that goes through that forum no matter who you are.

  9. #9
    Meow. Sen's Avatar
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    Honestly I'm kinda bothered that post-quantity is of higher value than post-quality. At least 50% of the posts on the forums are "atta boys" and "OMG d00d leik that wuz t0t4lly teh k3wl !!!1!!111eleventy!" Which is fair enough, I mean, people should be able to post what they want, right? Who knows, I think one or two of my posts have been on those lines.

    However, what I'm getting from this thread is that the more I post, regardless of what I post, the more respect my opinion or views will get? How is that okay? I mean, I'm not upset or whatever, just kinda disappointed that this is how it would be. Again I'd like to reiterate that this seems a little antithetical to the very idea of forums and community-building - I understand the need to moderate, but I question the basis of the decision on the value of a person's comment/contribution. And I know, I know, the general answer could be "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" but really, I'd rather not, since so far most people here seem pretty cool and I really enjoy and appreciate what you're doing. If I'm totally misunderstanding how this all works, let me know.

    I'm sorry if I seem like I'm whining - I'm not trying to come across that way. It's not that big a deal, I guess, but I still feel I ought to say something, regardless of my post counts.

  10. #10
    78% Hikikomori shaggyjebus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sen View Post
    Honestly I'm kinda bothered that post-quantity is of higher value than post-quality. At least 50% of the posts on the forums are "atta boys" and "OMG d00d leik that wuz t0t4lly teh k3wl !!!1!!111eleventy!" Which is fair enough, I mean, people should be able to post what they want, right? Who knows, I think one or two of my posts have been on those lines.

    However, what I'm getting from this thread is that the more I post, regardless of what I post, the more respect my opinion or views will get? How is that okay? I mean, I'm not upset or whatever, just kinda disappointed that this is how it would be. Again I'd like to reiterate that this seems a little antithetical to the very idea of forums and community-building - I understand the need to moderate, but I question the basis of the decision on the value of a person's comment/contribution. And I know, I know, the general answer could be "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" but really, I'd rather not, since so far most people here seem pretty cool and I really enjoy and appreciate what you're doing. If I'm totally misunderstanding how this all works, let me know.

    I'm sorry if I seem like I'm whining - I'm not trying to come across that way. It's not that big a deal, I guess, but I still feel I ought to say something, regardless of my post counts.
    I think that perhaps when people search for something to use to judge a fellow poster, they use the post count because that's the only thing everybody can see. So, if one poster says something that another poster doesn't like, the annoyed poster may look at the other's small post count and use that as an excuse to say, "You're just a stupid n00b." The same goes with age, I would say.
    All glory to Haruhi! The one and true God!

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