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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cypriottiger View Post
    im going to keep it brief, so feel free to add to this theory

    tobi is nobody. He is the creation of Madara using the rinnegan, just as the tailed beasts and moon were creations by the sot6p
    his purpose was to return madara to life, whilst embodying his ideals and setting the plans of war into motions. Within his lifetime madara could not complete his task of becoming the next sage, and so using rinnegan izanagi he created tobi.

    I wasnt sure if the other thread matched to this, seeing that was more of a split theory and sharingan izanagi than this
    i just realised my first post said "Tobi is nobody" i called it! Haha

  2. #22
    Senior Member kallateroll's Avatar
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    tobi is an uchiha that read the tablet with his sharigan and set his goal to obtain the rinnegan. on his mission he met madara, they had a battle and madara destroyed tobi reason for being a shell of his former self.I think naruto remind him of his last defeat which was from madara when he felt some fear from his opponenet he couldn't believe naruto made him feel like that. back on topic, on the brink of death tobi told madara something that cause madara to spare his life, maybe something about a newly awaken rinengan. it's also posible madara gave tobi a sharigan because his eye were dying as a result he became loyal to madara

  3. #23
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Tobi is the son of the sage of the six paths. That is why he refers to himself as madara; figuratively. The scene where he stands in the tower in the village of rain and says "my power, uchiha madaras power". Madara is his descendant and possesses the utmost power of that bloodline that tobi wants restored in himself. It also explains why his face was hinted to being an old man's and just as madara stole power in his dupe death vs hashirama, it reflects a similar actions between the two sons of the 6 paths. Hashiramas ancestor brother probably had a formidable life force technique similar to mokuton and thus zetsu was probably born. There were probably many details of madaras ancestor brother recorded on the secret tablets the uchiha possessed and madara learned his own ideas of taking power and."dying" in a seeming battle to the end. There are answers to this in 592 593 prediction thread

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    I agree with most of your theories knife eater, but I don't believe Tobi is the son of the sage at all. I've come to believe that Tobi is another failed experiment of Orochimaru. Both Tobi and Zetsu are creations of Orochimaru. We know that Yamato was an attempt to clone Hashirama. And I believe Tobi was an attempt to clone Madara. And then, zetsu is an attempt to combine those two.

  5. #25
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Bones View Post
    I agree with most of your theories knife eater, but I don't believe Tobi is the son of the sage at all. I've come to believe that Tobi is another failed experiment of Orochimaru. Both Tobi and Zetsu are creations of Orochimaru. We know that Yamato was an attempt to clone Hashirama. And I believe Tobi was an attempt to clone Madara. And then, zetsu is an attempt to combine those two.
    A clever take on it but i have issues. First, no scene in the manga does it show the malicious familiarity the other orochimaru experiments show orochimaru, like anko or yamato would. They served in akatsuki together in a way too awkward and unlikely for zetsu to undertake if your theory is true. Also, and this is the toughest part to overcome, is if zetsu was an experiment or somehow made from orochimaru's contributions then why does kabuto all of a sudden take interest an opportunity to get his hands on a zetsu clone or spore? He had the fruit of every single orochimaru labor in his possession and at his disposal, he had the keys to hashirama and madara ffs but he had absolutely nothing on zetsu! Kabuto would then not need to grandstand menacingly with the mystery coffin in front of tobi if tobi was already in league with orochimaru. Akatsuki seems to not be connected to madara but orochimaru worked closely with madara (probably hoping to get rewarded with sharingan or trick madara) but he also later became connected with akatsuki and likewise tobi. Only orochimaru knows what the hell is going on. The last thing, though that actually lends itself to your theory, Kenny, is that the black zetsu records and collects data on many substantial occurances undetected, something very much in line with orochimaru's aims to learn and know everything. At the very least, its safe to think that madara and orochimaru were business partners, not madara and tobi.

    There us evidence enough that zetsu and tobi were not from orochimaru's experiments and meddling and there is evidence now that they are not the result of any madara casted jutsu. Im sticking to believing that tobi is madaras ancestor and wants that power returned to him. Zetsu, though, tough call but its exciting trying.g to guess what hand kishi will play here near endgame. Tobi appeared to have the face of an old man through the cracks in his mask, he knows much of the history prior to hashirama and madaras time, he probably knew the contents of the uchiha tablets because he wrote the damn things. If madaras ancestor then it allows him to swing all Willy Millie referring to himself as madara literally and figuratively, in different tense and pov, but his most iconic scene he says "my power, uchiha madaras power". The son of six paths uchiha forefather weaves all those seemingly confused statements of identity into something coherent and sensible. Hell, we've seen tobi acting crazy and not too dissimilar from a crazy silly old man, because he us one, barely hanging on by a thread of zetsu.

    Last edit for this post; furthermore, zetsu and tobi are not clones or spawn from hashirama or madara. Though tobi and zetsu have techniques and hints about them of similarities to hashirama and madaras powers, they are ultimately not the same powers or techniques. Yamato is the result of experimenting with hashiramas cells, yamato uses mokuton. Zetsu doesn't use mokuton but moves similarly through vegetation as yamato does through trees because zetsu is an experiment from generations before where hashiramas ancestor had a similar and compatible power to his descendants but not exactly the same. Tobi can wield mangekyo sharingan without suffering the drawbacks of a non uchiha, meaning he is compatible and of that bloodline but is not a clone of madara because his signature is not exactly the same as madara's. Tobi and zetsu were step one from generations ago, madara and the hashirama frankensteining is step two so to speak.
    Last edited by knife eater; 07-05-2012 at 09:03 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Knife eater, You realize that
    you have offered no evidence at all , NONE at all that Tobi is the Elder Brother?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  7. #27
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Knife eater, You realize that
    you have offered no evidence at all , NONE at all that Tobi is the Elder Brother?
    Fair enough, i apologize. Evidence supporting my theory is hard to come by in the manga as it should be in order to protect the mystery. But too many times now characters make ambiguous statements or appear to infer one thing to trick the readers. Best recent example is madara asking kabuto if he knew their plan (which we are wanted to believe means his plans with tobi) and kabuto says yes, he is his assistant (thinking that providing some edo tensei military power is being an assistant to tobi) but he was truly only orochimaru's assistant. Ok, now help me out here and tell me what you think because i used a process of elimination to conclude that tobi is the son of six paths.

    I start by making a list of names with special criteria to be able to fit as tobi's real identity. Criteria is who can has intimate knowledge of the powers of sharingan and rinnegan both. Who can wield sharingan properly because of the uchiha bloodline. Who can use rinnegan at high levels. Ill even say who can POTENTIALLY use sharingan and rinnegan at high level. Who can know the secrets of the uchiha tablets. Who can recall history and events from the time of rikkudo with confidence that it is truth. Who has intimate knowledge of or potential understanding of the nature of bijuu? Who could even know about the jubii, much less know how to revive it?

    The names that can answer to these questions that the manga has introduced to us or mentioned, even by a longshot case of "potentially"

    Sage of six paths
    Two sons of six paths
    Madara uchiha
    Hashirama senju
    orochimaru
    Itachi uchiha
    Sasuke uchiha
    A clone of any of those people

    Not sage of six paths simply by the treatment of the bijuu
    not madara or clone or spawn of madara, personality is too different, they haven't been showed yet to use the same techniques. Their memories dont overlap properly and there are blank spots and inconsistencies in there between them. Red Herring alert!
    Not hashirama or clone or spawn of hashirama, hashirama is sealed away in death God and as with madara the personalities are too dissimilar and neither tobi nor zetsu use wood style. Tobi and zetsu have similar in nature techniques to madara and hashirama but not yet shown to be same that a clone would have.

    Not orochimaru, orochimaru still coveted a sharingan and a body to use it when tobi was already fooling around and tobi refers to orochimaru with almost contempt (recall the danzo fight when we saw those sharingan on his arm) moons eye plan would not satisfy orochimaru's purpose to know everything.

    Not itachi for obvious reasons

    Not sasuke for obvious reasons

    Not danzo for obvious reasons (threw him in the mix for the hell of it)

    This leaves the two brothers, they were the closest people we know of to rikkudo who could know how to access gedo maizu, locate the necessary tools for reviving the juubi and having the know how to subjugate it.

    That's my line of it anyway. Or at least, as i said before, if not outright a son of the six paths then perhaps a clone or experiment or spawn from one of them but not experiment or spawn from madara/hashirama. The sons of six paths will ne similar and/or compatible to hashiramas and madaras but not absolutely identical. That's why from appearances its easiest to link tobi and zetsus origins with hashirama and madara instead of their ancestors and also why yamato can power up zetsu even though zetsu isn't from hashirama.

    Tobi and zetsu are at the very least "entities of the bloodlines" that many readers label as "failed experiments" but to me are perfect/near perfect achievements, especially when compared to the likes of yamato who apparently became what he was after the fact of tobi/zetsu.

    Thanks for your patience.
    Last edited by knife eater; 07-06-2012 at 09:40 AM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Its obvious now who tobi is. He is a zetsu outright. Zetsu has the ability to perfectly duplicate someone and use exact chakra signatures
    Evidence is that tobi reattached a severed arm that healed like fused plant matter. Zetsu mined kisame so flawlessly as to not be thought otherwise PLUS performed beastly kisame jutsu! Alliance forces were duped countless times thinking zetsu were their comrades. Tobi's secret identity is nobody, just a plant that mimics other people along with personality. Tobi was madara's chakra playing out from a zetsu clone/original. In fact, tobi could have been alternating different people given the contrastsvof personalities when tobi was acting as deidara's partner.

    Real question is who us zetsu.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  9. #29
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    that isnt obvious tho, zetsus can make copies of a person, but is still not able to use their abilities like a bloodline limit. i still think that tobi is some kind of creation and as such he can easily be a living plant. who or what tobi really is remains to be seen, but i wouldnt rule you out tho, there are valid points, i just dont think you're correct.

  10. #30
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    that isnt obvious tho, zetsus can make copies of a person, but is still not able to use their abilities like a bloodline limit. i still think that tobi is some kind of creation and as such he can easily be a living plant. who or what tobi really is remains to be seen, but i wouldnt rule you out tho, there are valid points, i just dont think you're correct.
    Good point about limitations of the copy not able to perform like the original, i was shaky with what i could confirm a copy is capable of
    I need to reread the kisame chapters when he switched with a zetsu to hide in samehada. Limitations in mind, i find it also compelling that tobi seems quite limited in his array and variety of uchiha traits. He fights like yet another one trick pony
    . His use of sharingan is so far exclusive to one function, perhaps two and he can phase. His use of izanagi, if i recall correctly, has been the only exception to an otherwise slim claim he is uchiha. From a casual glance, it looks like tobi is a copy, restricted proportionately to madara's overwhelming power.

    Also, even with jutsu limitations in mind, if all of tobi's jutsu so far is ocular in origin (including self phases) then he still fits in the realm of possibility and probability of being a zetsu clone. He hasn't performed any moves that depend on chakra molding tied to the unique body and traits of an original. He can activate sharingan because the eye is point of origin of technique, no reason a zetsu could not use it, especially if zetsu is taylored to the scheme. He DOESN'T use katon or other styles ever that require individuality to determine the strength and effectiveness of the jutsu. Tobi, do far, has been operating on technicality the whole way in that he does what should reasonably be accomplished by a zetsu clone without ever showing any sign of performance in parallel to the original. I say technicality because it is the same technicality sasuke operated under for so long when he never actually landed the killing blows in his battles but carelessness allowed people to say sasuke killed so and so when in fact he didn't.

    I can't go back and easily look but is there any instance where tobi uses a technique dependent upon traits of unique and individual strength?
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

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