View Poll Results: Namikaze Minto vs Uchiha Madara. Who would win if they would fight now?

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  • Namikaze Minato

    9 25.71%
  • Uchiha Madara

    26 74.29%
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  1. #21
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Earlier posts in this thread have already addressed what you said. You are just restating some of the initial sentiments without taking the next step. Nobody is saying either one is a shoe-in but evidence has been offered to support the probability of a Minato victory. You can't just say "well, Madara is awesome and has EMS" then call it a day. Oh, and that "minor" battle you referred to was anything but minor. It was high pressure and high stakes squeezed where victory rested in a very narrow window of opportunity. It proved that Minato has what it takes to keep cool and deal with impossible situations. As I said before, that display of battle smarts to thwart an opponent who had element of surprise on top of planning cements Minato in the highest tier of shinobi.

    Hashirama went toe to toe with Madara. Kakuzu went toe to toe with Hashirama. Place Minato into the context of those match-ups! The manga has displayed effective countermeasures against each MS technique. Minato can do two of those countermeasuers with his eyes closed, which is the point I am trying to make. Minato's skillset perfectly conforms to the known weaknesses of MS (People say "Madara has MS/EMS" then we say "Minato's skills counter MS/EMS" then people respond with "but Madara is bad a** and has MS/EMS").

    He can point out weaknesses in opponents technique in mere moments (he understood chidori after witnessing just once and he saw through Tobi's space time and gained the upperhand). The only thing at this stage in the game is how well Madara wields rinnegan.
    I just trying to say since we dont know who tobi is u cant say beating him gives you any evidence how minato would against madara. Two different characters unless u believe tobi is Madara but this has a low chance now of happening.

    Tobi and madara so far have used totally different techniqies and fight very differently.

    And Tobi is diffintly in weakened state he wouldnt have been so cautious as hes been in the years carefully pllanning.

    Also its like Onaki said about Madara to tobi(thinking he was Madara) "someone of your calibre doesnt need around about tactics, you can get anything u want".



    Just a general comment to minato fans.

    I cant understand when fans think Minato can fo that and this and the rest of it, if minato is apparatenly so strong and no one talks about his weaknesses(AND HE HAS) what would be the point of this series if no one is going to get stronger than minato. What are we watching exactly? What do you guys think the only way to beat mainto is become the so6p. Give me a break minato is no were near this level.

    There have been several shinobi we have seen that unfortuately(for minato fans) are stronger than minato and its not a bad thing fans shouldnt get upset and do you know why? Minato died young he didnt get a chance to develope fully so what do minato fans expect ofcousre there will more and more shinobi slowly revealed that stronger than minato. Look at the 3rd riakage for example hes a complete joke taking on a tailed beast who would have though a shinobi could do that without special bloodline limits.
    Last edited by psukkar; 10-27-2011 at 05:02 AM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    I just trying to say since we dont know who tobi is u cant say beating him gives you any evidence how minato would against madara. Two different characters unless u believe tobi is Madara but this has a low chance now of happening.

    Tobi and madara so far have used totally different techniqies and fight very differently.

    And Tobi is diffintly in weakened state he wouldnt have been so cautious as hes been in the years carefully pllanning.

    Also its like Onaki said about Madara to tobi(thinking he was Madara) "someone of your calibre doesnt need around about tactics, you can get anything u want".



    Just a general comment to minato fans.

    I cant understand when fans think Minato can fo that and this and the rest of it, if minato is apparatenly so strong and no one talks about his weaknesses(AND HE HAS) what would be the point of this series if no one is going to get stronger than minato. What are we watching exactly? What do you guys think the only way to beat mainto is become the so6p. Give me a break minato is no were near this level.

    There have been several shinobi we have seen that unfortuately(for minato fans) are stronger than minato and its not a bad thing fans shouldnt get upset and do you know why? Minato died young he didnt get a chance to develope fully so what do minato fans expect ofcousre there will more and more shinobi slowly revealed that stronger than minato. Look at the 3rd riakage for example hes a complete joke taking on a tailed beast who would have though a shinobi could do that without special bloodline limits.
    You aren't bringing ANYTHING to the discussion! We know he has weaknesses! What did the manga reveal them as? Talk about those weaknesses if you know what they are! There is absolutely no flow to your argument other than once again establishing a base sentiment. We know those sentiments already, they were stated in the thread title! Did you even read the posts where I said why the battle with Tobi was meaningful? It wasn't about POWER or TECHNIQUE but MIND AND INTELLECT! If tobi is a reflection of Madara in spirit and mind but not body then we need to focus on the similarities. Minato outsmarted Tobi in combat and thwarted his plans. That is definitely a few small points to Minato's favor. Not many shinobi in the manga have displayed the foresight to plan generations ahead. The two that did most meaningfully were Madara and Minato and it's their sight into the future and their imprint on it that are squaring off now currently in the story. In a way, what is going on now is Madara vs Minato, their legacies are clashing. Generational spanning intentions are coming to a head and I bet Minato's legacy wins because of the actions he took in the past and how awesomely quick he was able to discern the evil that was developing.

  3. #23
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    He often do that, everything he don't agree with is retarded, and for some reason, he believes it to bee non offensive.
    LOL! ah, gaara man. i often do that to you because your posts are retarded(i don't mean this in an offensive manner, but as a literal definition; "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development." that goes for your usual posts and people who post like you) i'll show my evidence soon in this post. and just so we're clear, i don't call everything i don't agree with retarded, there are plenty of members on this forum who my opinions have differed from, the difference is that they actually put forth sound logic behind their views, which i can respect and become intrigued to discuss those views. some of these members have been Aga Bomba, artifice, Immortal-JyNxX(yes, even you, you uchiha racist lol), Monte.Teacher, Roku, thorofasgard13(had a great uchiha vs senju debate with him), Paulbee, Pow, etc...

    and then i come across wtf-posts left by the likes of people like you, almara(which i sometimes suspect is really you under disguise), rinnebadass(lol! love you man), and other members i'll refrain from mentioning right now whose logic are so crippled in nature, i sometimes wonder if i'm just being trolled by skilled trolls, i can be so easily baited at times.

    now for evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    As much as I don't like the idea of this thread based on how meaningless it is to discuss the winner for reasons mentioned above I just got to reply to this. Minato got just as good a chance to win as Madara, does. Based on what he have done, and I'm sure there's 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 things we don't know about Minato when it comes to combat.
    seriously retarded logic if i ever witnessed any.

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I thought the entry to discussion was a favored combatant (for whatever reason) and a simple line of logic as to why Minato or Madara would win. Calling us tards when we offer at least simple and easy to follow reasons for our choice? Really? Try bothering to read some of the posts next time, besides, Itachi feared at best a stalemate with Jiraya if he and Kisame had both attacked him. That implies quite a bit and certainly does not favor Madara based on your line of thought.
    why do you think i called you retarded in the first place? because i actually took the time to go through posts, and they were retarded! you should go find the minato vs itachi thread before even coming on here, you might learn a thing or two. also the jiraiya vs itachi thread, so you can readjust your misconceptions of itachi being "scared" of jiraiya. itachi is on a tier above the sannin, so is minato. and i suspect that madara is on a tier even above itachi and minato, but it needs to be looked into more to know for sure.

    all your posts are over-hyping minato's accomplishment, most of which have NOTHING to do with battle, but planning for future events, we are discussing mdara vs minato! in the heat of battle! not who can make better plans for the future you tard...

    and then!? you try your best to downgrade madara's powers, as if the genius behind those powers have no say in how to use them. you TARD!

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    MS and EMS techniques are only useful when the opponent may be caught in them. Just because Madara has such techniques does not mean the fourth would so easily fall into the setups. We saw that the third raikage was faster than amaterasu but the fourth hokage is faster still. We also learned how laughably easy it is to avoid tsukiyomi; don't make eye contact! (or casting component such as Itatchi's ring). Susanoo is hardly the perfect defense considering the how damaging the toll is on the body of the person using it (the more it protects the more it hurts).

    We are used to the MS and EMS techniques appearing overpowered and super elite because we so easily forget their drawbacks and limitations. The real sharingan threat to Minato is izanagi yet we see Sasuke pull through several consecutive instances of even that when used against him. I would venture to say that another "genius" ninja such as Minato could do the same. We have recently been reminded that every jutsu has a weakness and MS and EMS is no exception. How well Madara uses rinnegan will be interesting but the fact that he most likely needs Kabuto's "upgrades" just to wield it properly is testament to how inefficient Madara would use it in the fight imagined in this thread. I am still voting on 4th hokage defeating Madara in a non edo fight. Extreme speed, space-time manipulation, sharp battle wits... excellent traits to counter any formidable sharingan user and Minato was highest tier. His abilities seemed to actually be carefully tailored to counter sharingan.

    edit: Susanoo, seriously, what a dumb thing to use against Minato. The ultimate defense is best thwarted by simply not attacking. It's offensive capabilities are indeed impressive but no harder to avoid than MS/EMS (Minato is simply too fast). See susanoo appear, go for a walk, come back to find opponent depleted of chakra. Why waste any time trying to penetrate it.
    well NO SH*T, sherlock! that goes for EVERY SINGLE JUTSU in the entire manga! of course you have to HIT the opponent for it to work!? what do you think being a shinobi is ALL about!? creating an opening, and follow through with a successful crippling of not deadly attack! similar to how a player is always aiming for a checkmate in chess to win the match. did you not see the chuunin exams? that's what they were all about, the basic foundation of shinobi combat. this goes as well for minato's rasengan which is basically his only attack apart from his kunai, and frog summons. minato's impressive skill is what makes such simple tools so impressive, but to pretend his skill is godly among all shinobi is RETARDED! we've seen plenty of shinobi do wonders with their skills with their respective tools.

    just to show. minato was taken off guard by tobi, and would've lost if tobi wasn't so cocky and had to blabber on. the main downfall for all the great villains of the fictional world. minato was forced into a stalemate with bee, and had to choice, kill bee sacrificing his life as well, or retreat a few meters to attempt another attack on the jinchuuriki. these two examples alone show that minato isn't as perfect as you make him seem, he does get surprised and that would spell RUIN against an uchiha like itachi or madara, there's no second chance with them.

    if minato got caught with amaterasu, it's over no matter where he teleports to. if he's caught with tsukuyomi, it's over in a couple of seconds. what happened when danzou surprised sasuke from behind and proceeded to attack him with a kunai, susano'o was a perfect counter defense. minato's rasengan or rasengan wouldn't be able to pierce though susano'o.

    as impressive as his flying thunder technique is, minato's specialty is close combat which has a severe drawback, as shown with killer bee vs minato, it brings minato within the range of the enemy as well. a genius uchiha can easily play his cards right and get his hands around minato's neck and force sharingan-eye contact, if not another weapon in their disposal, or means to take care of minato.

    minato did not outsmart tobi, what happened was that tobi's cockiness made him drop the ball when he had minato in his palm, if not, minato would have been out the game, and the kyuubi would've run amok in konoha.. but of course, that would've been against kishi's plot so he pulled the villain-arrogance-equaling-downfall card..

    and tobi's just a pathetic shell of madara, only having access to a time-space jutsu, and a sharingan within a peek hole, and oh yeah, izunagi. that's it.

    minato would have enough trouble with itachi, let alone madara..

    which brings about the question: who would win, madara vs itachi? i easily suspect madara, but maybe i'm wrong.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    LOL! ah, gaara man. i often do that to you because your posts are retarded(i don't mean this in an offensive manner, but as a literal definition; "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development." that goes for your usual posts and people who post like you) i'll show my evidence soon in this post. and just so we're clear, i don't call everything i don't agree with retarded, there are plenty of members on this forum who my opinions have differed from, the difference is that they actually put forth sound logic behind their views, which i can respect and become intrigued to discuss those views. some of these members have been Aga Bomba, artifice, Immortal-JyNxX(yes, even you, you uchiha racist lol), Monte.Teacher, Roku, thorofasgard13(had a great uchiha vs senju debate with him), Paulbee, Pow, etc
    Unlike you I don't like lying so I'm not going to say I hate all of your posts and that their all retarded. Although I do think most them are anything else than a voicing of who you like the most.

    This is the last thing that I am going to say to you about this: Sure, some of my posts might be utterly moronic, but most of them are either theory's where it's clear that they are no more than speculation, or they are build up with an flawless logic because their based on facts. You can't really call me retarded because we always disagree and because I don't think that Itachi is the strongest person since the Rikoduo(or well you can, but that's retarded).


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  5. #25
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    You aren't bringing ANYTHING to the discussion! We know he has weaknesses! What did the manga reveal them as? Talk about those weaknesses if you know what they are! There is absolutely no flow to your argument other than once again establishing a base sentiment. We know those sentiments already, they were stated in the thread title! Did you even read the posts where I said why the battle with Tobi was meaningful? It wasn't about POWER or TECHNIQUE but MIND AND INTELLECT! If tobi is a reflection of Madara in spirit and mind but not body then we need to focus on the similarities. Minato outsmarted Tobi in combat and thwarted his plans. That is definitely a few small points to Minato's favor. Not many shinobi in the manga have displayed the foresight to plan generations ahead. The two that did most meaningfully were Madara and Minato and it's their sight into the future and their imprint on it that are squaring off now currently in the story. In a way, what is going on now is Madara vs Minato, their legacies are clashing. Generational spanning intentions are coming to a head and I bet Minato's legacy wins because of the actions he took in the past and how awesomely quick he was able to discern the evil that was developing.
    ok for one,
    we dont know how he can handle taking hits, what are his defenses when he cant dodge or the enemy force his hand. Hes not pyshically strong or has jutsu to help him defend other than speed.

    2, minato's stredgty itself is obvios teleporting two and from kunai. The enemy knows whats happpening of the bat.

    3, what is minato's plan b if he cant use his speed to win a fights. he looks like a one trick pony to me. And like you said all jutsu's have weaknesses and minato isnt excluded in that.

    At one point I actually gave this serious thought and thought up of specfic examples, ill try and find it but I remember those points above got me thinking,

  6. #26
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    ok for one,
    we dont know how he can handle taking hits, what are his defenses when he cant dodge or the enemy force his hand. Hes not pyshically strong or has jutsu to help him defend other than speed.

    2, minato's stredgty itself is obvios teleporting two and from kunai. The enemy knows whats happpening of the bat.

    3, what is minato's plan b if he cant use his speed to win a fights. he looks like a one trick pony to me. And like you said all jutsu's have weaknesses and minato isnt excluded in that.

    At one point I actually gave this serious thought and thought up of specfic examples, ill try and find it but I remember those points above got me thinking,
    1. That's for sure, but he might be using elemental ability's for this?

    2. The problem would be the amount of Kunais and seals he can place, the enemy will have no idea where he will pop up, and even if they do I doubt they will have the time to react. If he just throws a few Kunais in some random directions he can dodge anything and the enemy will have no chance at stopping him(unless you might be able to travel with him by holding on, or making him unable to travel). And even if they knew which Kunai he had traveled too they wouldn't have the speed to get there in time before he changes location. And if he actually does mark you, you are as good as screwed.

    3. Now this can't really be a fully valid argument, but a once every century genius most likely got a 100 more tricks up his sleeve than a regular Jonin, and about 50 more than a regular Kage(exaggerating).

    By my post it should be clear why I don't like the idea of this thread, there is simply to much unknown about Minato, so it's really hard coming up with valid and well thought arguments to support him.


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  7. #27
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    1. That's for sure, but he might be using elemental ability's for this?

    2. The problem would be the amount of Kunais and seals he can place, the enemy will have no idea where he will pop up, and even if they do I doubt they will have the time to react. If he just throws a few Kunais in some random directions he can dodge anything and the enemy will have no chance at stopping him(unless you might be able to travel with him by holding on, or making him unable to travel). And even if they knew which Kunai he had traveled too they wouldn't have the speed to get there in time before he changes location. And if he actually does mark you, you are as good as screwed.

    3. Now this can't really be a fully valid argument, but a once every century genius most likely got a 100 more tricks up his sleeve than a regular Jonin, and about 50 more than a regular Kage(exaggerating).

    By my post it should be clear why I don't like the idea of this thread, there is simply to much unknown about Minato, so it's really hard coming up with valid and well thought arguments to support him.
    minato is dead we wont see him anymore in flash backs unless we more characters that recall minato personally which I doubt.

    So people are going to have to accept minato has shown us what he does best and what he doesnt do. Otherwise minato will be a like myth in these sort of threads people saying hes genius and COULD do that AND THIS but he hasnt just use what the manga is telling you.

  8. #28
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Forget I even bothered here. Ass holes ftw. Dragging it down to a point for point breakdown against hostility means uncivil thread, been around the internet long enough to see how things degrade when just one person starts "omg tards".

    Look forward to the next interesting match-up discussion, if we can even have another this late into Naruto.
    Last edited by knife eater; 10-28-2011 at 03:27 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    I could have sworn "vs." threads were outlawed, since they invariably turn into rage-filled hate threads that make the mods want to perma-ban everyone who's ever posted in the Naruto forums.

  10. #30
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Forget I even bothered here. Ass holes ftw. Dragging it down to a point for point breakdown against hostility means uncivil thread, been around the internet long enough to see how things degrade when just one person starts "omg tards".

    Look forward to the next interesting match-up discussion, if we can even have another this late into Naruto.
    LOL! whatever helps you sleep at night. all i did was call out flawed logic reasoning when i see it, you're one calling people "ass holes." it's kinda funny, all your complaining about people not bringing up valid points against your argument, and then when those same points you're asking for are brought up(along with breaking apart your twisted logic), you want to call it quits. lol!

    whatever bro, like i said, "whatever helps you sleep at night," if you want to call it quits go ahead. maybe someone else can pick up the argument for minato's case.. other than the polls i mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    I could have sworn "vs." threads were outlawed, since they invariably turn into rage-filled hate threads that make the mods want to perma-ban everyone who's ever posted in the Naruto forums.
    LOL; there's no rage-filled hate over here bro, it's all love.. sure i called someone's foundation for their views broken at best, but no one is saying cuss words. there's nothing wrong with saying, "your logic makes no sense!" i personally love vs threads and been witness to great debates because of them, like jiraiya vs itachi, and itachi vs minato, which cleared a lot of misconceptions people had over the manga.

    edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    Unlike you I don't like lying so I'm not going to say I hate all of your posts and that their all retarded. Although I do think most them are anything else than a voicing of who you like the most.

    This is the last thing that I am going to say to you about this: Sure, some of my posts might be utterly moronic, but most of them are either theory's where it's clear that they are no more than speculation, or they are build up with an flawless logic because their based on facts. You can't really call me retarded because we always disagree and because I don't think that Itachi is the strongest person since the Rikoduo(or well you can, but that's retarded).
    aw bro, don't misunderstand me. i don't hate all your posts either, just the retarded ones, which include every time you TROLL!!! but you do have a good one every once in a while.

    and so we're clear, i DO NOT "voice out(whatever that means)" the characters i like the most. i give credit where credit is due and that's it. problem is that there are a lot of uchiha bashers who hate uchiha characters and try to minimize their accomplishments, in which i step in to defend those characters along with a few members. and again, i do it with logic and not ITACHI is the BEST, NO ONE can beat him! i'm sure he can do 1000000000000 things we haven't seen, blah, blah, etc... no. i let his battles speak for him, and they speak volumes. i never claimed him to be the strongest either, if would take someone on his level to possibly take him down like minato and not a tier lower. sannin level, deidara level, they just can't compete with itachi.

    minato had enough trouble with tobi, madara would probably murder him(sorry all minato fanatics).
    Last edited by StareIntoMySharingan; 10-28-2011 at 05:52 AM.
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