the REAL uchiha massacre

[cypriottiger]

in summary, the uchiha that were supposedly killed by itachi that night are very much alive, and those bodies are actually zetsu clones

evidence?
Kabuto has not resurrected them by edo tensei
madarb/tobi was asked by itachi to help him
the clan would be invaluable as an army to assist in tobis war

antievidence?
Danzou's sharingan
tobis sharingan collection

[psukkar]

in summary, the uchiha that were supposedly killed by itachi that night are very much alive, and those bodies are actually zetsu clones

evidence?
Kabuto has not resurrected them by edo tensei
madarb/tobi was asked by itachi to help him
the clan would be invaluable as an army to assist in tobis war

antievidence?
Danzou's sharingan
tobis sharingan collection

good idea seriously,

but highly doubt it because tobi needs alot chakra to make many zetsu clones he didnt start stealing the bjuu until part 2. So i dont know what chakra source he would use to make it happen.

Also itachi would have noticed all the clan members he would be fighting didnt activate their sharingan as zetsu clones cant use bloodline limits. Unless tobi put itachi under a genjutsu to fool him.

It is intresting idea nevertheless. The whole idea of 2 guys kill everyone in the clan is so wack they must have lost alot elite members during that era.

[Zero]

in summary, the uchiha that were supposedly killed by itachi that night are very much alive, and those bodies are actually zetsu clones

evidence?
Kabuto has not resurrected them by edo tensei
madarb/tobi was asked by itachi to help him
the clan would be invaluable as an army to assist in tobis war

antievidence?
Danzou's sharingan
tobis sharingan collection X

Tobi's sharingan collection did not come from the Uchiha massacre. All of the Sharingans from that night were taken by Daznou (plus one eye from Shisui before the night).

Tobi's collection is Madara's collection, that was probably gathered from the dead Uchiha trough out their bloody history of fighting. Probably those from later years as well, mainly those which bodies couldn't be found/recovered.

It would me more reasonable to say that not all Uchiha members were killed that night (beside Sasuke that is).

[Rlinfamous]

Tobi's sharingan collection did not come from the Uchiha massacre. All of the Sharingans from that night were taken by Daznou (plus one eye from Shisui before the night).

Tobi's collection is Madara's collection, that was probably gathered from the dead Uchiha trough out their bloody history of fighting. Probably those from later years as well, mainly those which bodies couldn't be found/recovered.

It would me more reasonable to say that not all Uchiha members were killed that night (beside Sasuke that is).

Actually, I think the majority of Tobi/Madara's eyes DID come from the massacre. There's no evidence that Danzou claimed all of the Sharingan that night, or even the majority. If he did, Konoha would have more lying around somewhere; if anything, Tobi's collection fills that plot hole, because surely Konoha wouldn't pass up the chance to make more "Copy Ninjas" if it could. And come on, it's not as if Tobi, who warps everything into his dimension and is obsessed with cloning/transplants, would pass up that opportunity to collect some eyes; it was probably his main incentive to help Itachi to begin with.

There's also no reason not to believe that all the Uchiha were killed that night. It's what we've been told. No one survived aside from Sasuke, and it's not as if there was a prior massacre; the one we know of is pretty much it.

Could Tobi/Madara have collected eyes over the years prior to the massacre? Sure, why not. But to suggest that none of his eyes came from the massacre, or that there was some massive wave of Uchiha deaths aside from the massacre, is unfounded.

[cypriottiger]

i accepted that this theory was unlikely, and just a random thought stemmed mostly from kabutos lack of edo tensei uchiha, or uzumaki for that matter (still thinking of that one), however is there any evidence to 100% disprove this, a statement from danzou saying his sharingan are from the massacre? Also how is it that danzou got shisuis eye before madara did? You would an eye of such power would be closely watched, especially since it was the first mangekyou sharingan to be activated since madara and izuna a decent 80 years prior.
Didnt madara wish for revenge on his clan for betraying him, and for that reason he helped itachi? He wanted to "rekindle the flames of war" or something like that. I 2n see him giving his clan an ultimatum "fight for me or die", the real bodies are those who chose death, the rest zetsu clones. It matches with the theories of fugaku being tobi, how the intel that kushina gave sasukes mother reached tobi.

[Gaara Kazekage]

i accepted that this theory was unlikely, and just a random thought stemmed mostly from kabutos lack of edo tensei uchiha, or uzumaki for that matter (still thinking of that one), however is there any evidence to 100% disprove this, a statement from danzou saying his sharingan are from the massacre? Also how is it that danzou got shisuis eye before madara did? You would an eye of such power would be closely watched, especially since it was the first mangekyou sharingan to be activated since madara and izuna a decent 80 years prior.
Didnt madara wish for revenge on his clan for betraying him, and for that reason he helped itachi? He wanted to "rekindle the flames of war" or something like that. I 2n see him giving his clan an ultimatum "fight for me or die", the real bodies are those who chose death, the rest zetsu clones. It matches with the theories of fugaku being tobi, how the intel that kushina gave sasukes mother reached tobi.

The reason Danzou got Shisui's eye was because he was the head of security in Konoha(at least in the shadows) and would with no problem gain access to Shisui's body without anyone finding out. Madara had no chance to find out about Shisui's death so fast, unless he had been constantly spying on Konoha.

I guessing few Uchiha's and Uzumaki's are as powerful as the Kage's and even among the Kage's it seems that Kabuto have only picked the strongest ones. Or maybe he couldn't get the DNA from the older ones, IDK. But I'm guessing that the Uchiha clans was wiped out, except from the obvious 3. And the only way Danzou could have had so many eyes would be if he stored them somewhere only he knows, because he had not nearly enough on him.

When it comes to Madara not being able to collect so many eyes as shown with Tobi I think he could have. During his long long lifetime, especially before he and Hashirama founded Konoha allot of Uchiha's most likely died and he could have taken the eyes from almost everyone that died. Tho I still think that most/all the eyes are from the Uchiha massacre.

[Zero]

Actually, I think the majority of Tobi/Madara's eyes DID come from the massacre. There's no evidence that Danzou claimed all of the Sharingan that night, or even the majority. If he did, Konoha would have more lying around somewhere; if anything, Tobi's collection fills that plot hole, because surely Konoha wouldn't pass up the chance to make more "Copy Ninjas" if it could. And come on, it's not as if Tobi, who warps everything into his dimension and is obsessed with cloning/transplants, would pass up that opportunity to collect some eyes; it was probably his main incentive to help Itachi to begin with.

There's also no reason not to believe that all the Uchiha were killed that night. It's what we've been told. No one survived aside from Sasuke, and it's not as if there was a prior massacre; the one we know of is pretty much it.

Could Tobi/Madara have collected eyes over the years prior to the massacre? Sure, why not. But to suggest that none of his eyes came from the massacre, or that there was some massive wave of Uchiha deaths aside from the massacre, is unfounded.

Missing eyes from the massacre would alert Konoha (especially the top) that there exist a Sharingan hunter, someone who is collecting power of one of the strongest clans in the village (which is a part of the Sage's power). Do you think that they wouldn't do anything ? Heck, there almost broke a war, because one of the Byakugan's user were almost abducted and you are saying that a massive amount of Sharingans could just disappear and no one would give a thought ?

All those years of Tobi/Madara planing, hiding and working from the shadows, could be lost, if there was a clue that someone from outside has stolen the sharingans of the dead Uchiha. Danzou could take them, because it was his ANBU that was doing the investigation (actually, a clean up as the top clearly knew what happened) and probably it was his men that were assigned to take care of the bodies.

We don't know the exact number of the Uchiha clan members that have awakened a sharingan. There probably were those that couldn't be recovered, because of the damage caused by fighting. It's even possible that the eyes, that weren't activated at their death or at a time of transplant, can't be used by non-Uchiha.

The reason Danzou got Shisui's eye was because he was the head of security in Konoha(at least in the shadows) and would with no problem gain access to Shisui's body without anyone finding out. Madara had no chance to find out about Shisui's death so fast, unless he had been constantly spying on Konoha.

The way you said it, sounded like he took his eye from his dead body and that is not true. Both of his eyes were removed when he was still alive, the other one was given to Itachi, after which he killed himself (?) and faked the destruction of his eye in the process.

[mo916]

Missing eyes from the massacre would alert Konoha (especially the top) that there exist a Sharingan hunter, someone who is collecting power of one of the strongest clans in the village (which is a part of the Sage's power). Do you think that they wouldn't do anything ? Heck, there almost broke a war, because one of the Byakugan's user were almost abducted and you are saying that a massive amount of Sharingans could just disappear and no one would give a thought ?

All those years of Tobi/Madara planing, hiding and working from the shadows, could be lost, if there was a clue that someone from outside has stolen the sharingans of the dead Uchiha. Danzou could take them, because it was his ANBU that was doing the investigation (actually, a clean up as the top clearly knew what happened) and probably it was his men that were assigned to take care of the bodies.

We don't know the exact number of the Uchiha clan members that have awakened a sharingan. There probably were those that couldn't be recovered, because of the damage caused by fighting. It's even possible that the eyes, that weren't activated at their death or at a time of transplant, can't be used by non-Uchiha.




The way you said it, sounded like he took his eye from his dead body and that is not true. Both of his eyes were removed when he was still alive, the other one was given to Itachi, after which he killed himself (?) and faked the destruction of his eye in the process.

Good point that not all of the uchiha have awakened sharingan. Also, even lets say if they did all have sharingan, what good is a normal sharingan at this point in the manga? I mean if they don't have Mangekyou Sharingan its really weak compared to what Naruto, Bee Gaara and even Kakashi can do now.