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  1. #21
    Lets just draw out the timelines of how Madara fought Hashirama that led to his demise and then from then on we can speculate how he is surviving the defeat; how he met Nagato (we all know pre-teen Nagato was trained by Jiraiya); gave him the rinnegan and formed Akatsuki; how he could have snuck in and acted to release the Kyuubi to cause havoc to Konoha (was he already dead because he wore the Tobi mask?); and during the Uchiha massacre, was it him that led to Itachi to slaughtered his own clansmen? (how old was Sasuke when it happened? because the Kyuubi incident happened during Naruto's birth); how Orichimaru/Kabuto seemed to know the existence of Madara dead body?

  2. #22
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veej View Post
    I agree with paulbee's theory for the most part, but I'm inclined to believe Tobi is a different soul that has possessed Madara's true body. Not only has he said, "I guess you can call me a shell of my former self," but I'm just not buying the idea that a zetsu clone could make use of a bloodline limit, highly advanced time/space jutsu, nor could a Zetsu clone somehow acquire all of Madara's knowledge. We saw from the battlefield that some of those Zetsu clones that borrow identities didn't know squat about the people they possessed (remember that shlub who got squashed by Sakura outside the medical tent?) Why, then, would a Madara clone be able to recount all of Madara's memories?

    Tobi may well have been one of Madara's own creations, designed with the extra-long-term intention of reviving himself in the case that his battle with the First Hokage went sour. He apparently had some pre-existing knowledge of Nagato, and Tobi is aware of having implanted Rinnegan in him as a boy.

    As we know, Edo Tensei doesn't necessarily require the body at all. It only requires the DNA, which can be acquired in any number of ways. One possibility is that, if Tobi is using Madara's body, and Kabuto knew, then Kabuto could have acquired Madara's DNA during his time working with Akatsuki. Tobi might have left something that could be used.

    Assuming that Tobi is using Madara's body, it still leaves the question of whose soul has possessed the body (and gave it that lame haircut).
    Good points about what a zetsu clone knows.

    But true the one thing that hurts the zetsu clone theory is that it cant use bloodline limits , well at least the ones we have seen so far.

    And besides it would be lame to me and not very original for kishi's standards.

  3. #23
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenonova View Post
    Lets just draw out the timelines of how Madara fought Hashirama that led to his demise and then from then on we can speculate how he is surviving the defeat; how he met Nagato (we all know pre-teen Nagato was trained by Jiraiya); gave him the rinnegan and formed Akatsuki; how he could have snuck in and acted to release the Kyuubi to cause havoc to Konoha (was he already dead because he wore the Tobi mask?); and during the Uchiha massacre, was it him that led to Itachi to slaughtered his own clansmen? (how old was Sasuke when it happened? because the Kyuubi incident happened during Naruto's birth); how Orichimaru/Kabuto seemed to know the existence of Madara dead body?
    all good questions.

    The only thing we can say about madara's death is most likley died around the time he controlled the muzikage. Other than that we have nothing to go regarding ur other questions.


    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    One of the greater questions is why did Madara die?
    Not really, you can put that in a simular catergory to how did hasihrama died dispite being as strong as he was. Death isnt something that can be avioded it will happen, there's no sush thing as immortaility.
    Last edited by psukkar; 10-15-2011 at 02:43 AM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    The only thing we can say about madara's death is most likley died around the time he controlled the muzikage. Other than that we have nothing to go regarding ur other questions.
    Not really, we also know that he couldn't have died to long ago based on the current Mizukage's age, she's pretty young so it can't have been that long ago, and I doubt she was elected Kage when as young as Gaara.


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  5. #25
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    all good questions.

    The only thing we can say about madara's death is most likley died around the time he controlled the muzikage. Other than that we have nothing to go regarding ur other questions.
    Not necessarily. Madara almost always covers his right eye with his hair, even the recently revived one is like that, but here, "he" shows his right one (and has shorter/less hair):
    Spoiler!

  6. #26
    While this idea and its support are purely speculation, one mostly overlooked possibility is that Tobi was the Third's father, Sarutobi Sasuke. Of course, it's mostly based on the word play of "Tobi", but Sarutobi Sasuke would have been a ninja at the same time as Madara (maybe even older than Madara, in fact), and may have been a supporter of the Uchiha cause. Uchiha Sasuke's mom was proud to name her kid after the Third's father. If Sarutobi Sasuke was, in fact, a supporter of the Senju, I don't think Fugaku would have been okay with naming his kid after the guy. After all, Fugaku was the leader of the failed Uchiha rebellion.

    If it's true, we may hear a story from Madara about a conversation with Sarutobi over what should happen if Madara fails to defeat the First Hokage, maybe something along the lines of, "Offer to bury my body as a gesture of respect from the Senju, then use your XYZ soul-transfer jutsu to possess my dead body and implant the Rinnegan in a compatible kid, then have him bring me back someday. FOR THE UCHIHA!"

  7. #27
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    What about Tobirama Senju? It is helpful to attempt debate based on the name of characters in the Manga.

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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    What about Tobirama Senju? It is helpful to attempt debate based on the name of characters in the Manga.
    I figured the possibility of it being Tobirama was eliminated since his soul was sealed up by the Third. Then again, it is strange how little we learn of the Second Hokage throughout this whole manga, so who knows what secrets he's kept? After all, he created Edo Tensei, so anything's possible. I find it hard to believe though, since both he and his brother practically gave their lives for the Senju and the Leaf.

    I also forgot to mention that Tobi might be sporting the iconic Sarutobi goatee under that mask, which, of course, would be a dead giveaway.

  9. #29
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    I'm thinking more than likely he is some kind of clone or slitting of Madara who had no choice but to split himself in order to survive his battle with Hashrima.


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  10. #30
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    You got it right, or at least right in my eyes, and thats whats important. Muu was it? That mummy guy split off into two beings, and split his chakra in half as well. One of them got sealed but the other is still there. This can be true in Madara's case aswell, remember Itachi said that Madara is nothing compared to his former self. This would explain what he meant, Madara split himself in two and one of them died. Probably fight the first at the valley of the end, in order to get some DNA to do his voodo.

    If you are thinking it is too random for one splitite to be next to another spiltite, my I remind you that Kabuto is the one who summoned those two near each other.

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