Bleach 468 Discussion / 469 Predictions

[Zero]

The only conclusion I can think of, is that personal reality is linked to the group reality, but personal reality doesn't affect group reality (as much as) when group reality affects personal reality, thus making a conflict between them and making the group reality pressure the personal reality to become consistent with the group one.

Basically the reality of many, prevails the personal reality, because if it was the other way around, then the personal reality controlling the group one would belong to some higher being. Perhaps the group reality is lead by the Soul King, making it fate and Tsukishima changing their reality makes them fight against it.

[SCarred Luffy Lvl:Z]

^OR....

I'm guessing that every time Tsukishima uses his power, it creates an alternate parallel reality for that instant in time when he changes the past. And I do believe that Tsukishima is apart of that alternate reality, meaning he has those memories as well, which would go back to my theory about what happened with Byakuya's zanpakuto. That reality then ceases to exist when Tsuki reverses the effect by cutting the person/object again.

But this theory of alternate realities does of course run into problems when you think about how an event such as Tsuki trapping the floor in the past could have an impact on the present reality of the situation, as opposed to changing events in space time for people such as Chad and Orihime where it appears that besides their memories being altered, their alternate reality has no actual bearing on present day situations. I have no problem believing that Kubo could have missed an oversight like that, but I could risk a theory anyway. I think it could depend on how far back and how wide ranging and how drastic the space-time event(s) are that are being changed that could have an effect on how or if they will affect present circumstances.

... Unless you think of it more as Tsuki, more or less, "aligns " the person(Chad/ Inoue), Or thing(the floor), only momentarily with his "choice" of parallel/ alternate/ alternating reality, the effects can be as diversified as realities, including ranging from insinuating many altered memories into either a person, or thing, basically booby-trapping their minds or 'souls' for a delayed effect like sleeper agents, or even helping shape/ mold their forms/ souls(floor), or what these might become. Although a power like that, like Yukio's would of course have very set limits, more than likely some power, subconscious, and even personal moral limits placed that wouldn't make these able to meet our idea of total potential reached.

Wait, now I'm explaining Kubo's reasoning....

.. WTH is going on in this world?

Say something like trapping a floor mere minutes before Byakuya and Tsuki are using it; it isn't a very big change in the scheme of things, and its only the one instance and it did not happen very far back in the past so that alternate reality touches upon the present situation and its effect is felt/seen. Whereas what Tsuki did when he went back and changed all of the instances where Ichigo helped out Chad and Orihime is a huge change in the timeline over a large period of time and occured a while back so that would result in the alternate reality being so far different from present circumstances that it would not touch or affect them at all, it would be a true alternate reality, equaling just memories for everyone involved.

To be honest , I don't understand how exactly Tsuki 'trapped' the floor? Also don't understand how exactly it was supposed to actually effect Byakuya? It looked like tsuki basically either had a giant invisible sword cut through the floor, (as a trap in some way?), or trapped the floor to rip/ collapse itself apart at the exact point Byakuya triggered, (possibly sending a spike of energy/ air/ w. e. arching out as it did?)? So neither of those end results seem like they "do anything" to actually hurt or affect Byakuya unless their purpose was momentary distraction? Even that distraction, didn't seem that important necessarily to winning?

Not when it comes to people, at least. Although I agree that I did overlook the part with the floor. Regardless, it just further reinforces that his powers are absolute.

Also, one more thing: WHICH reality? Not because I think it overly matters but is still a crucial question here, as it is not reality before Tsukishima and not necessarily reality with Tsukishima.

Except it kind of reinforces the opposite. If Tsuki's reality has a problem almost or every time when confronted with a conflicting reality in the "true" reality, then it's power is not absolute. It's kind of like a machine, supposing to be perfect, yet gets shut down when confronted with something that exists with 2 absolutely conflicting absolutes. It's a weakness, and thus an imperfection, equally denying absolute "perfection".

[SquadZero]

To be honest , I don't understand how exactly Tsuki 'trapped' the floor? Also don't understand how exactly it was supposed to actually effect Byakuya? It looked like tsuki basically either had a giant invisible sword cut through the floor, (as a trap in some way?), or trapped the floor to rip/ collapse itself apart at the exact point Byakuya triggered, (possibly sending a spike of energy/ air/ w. e. arching out as it did?)? So neither of those end results seem like they "do anything" to actually hurt or affect Byakuya unless their purpose was momentary distraction? Even that distraction, didn't seem that important necessarily to winning?

Yeah, I don't know if it was a serious attempt on Tsuki's part at an attack on Byakuya or just a cocky type of showboat to give Byakuya a clear taste of what he is up against, purposely letting him guess at the nature of Tsuki's powers. Either way he it seems he is underestimating Byakuya and he will get pwnt because of it.

[LeaT]

The only conclusion I can think of, is that personal reality is linked to the group reality, but personal reality doesn't affect group reality (as much as) when group reality affects personal reality, thus making a conflict between them and making the group reality pressure the personal reality to become consistent with the group one.

Basically the reality of many, prevails the personal reality, because if it was the other way around, then the personal reality controlling the group one would belong to some higher being. Perhaps the group reality is lead by the Soul King, making it fate and Tsukishima changing their reality makes them fight against it.

But how can a floor be "personal" or "group"? Then it all boils down to epistemology and ontology and how we can know reality. Sure, we can talk about shared realities, we see this happen all the time. For example, the Bleach readers on the MangaShare forum share reality in that we construct a reality specifically built around reading Bleach that is unique to this part of space (and time), but individual perceptions (and participations) still vary. Perfect example: the weekly chapter polls.

I think the really issue here is both epistemological and ontological and that the ideas Kubo present are not necessarily compatible with each other. On the one hand, he claims that there is a physical reality that we can know, but on the other hand, he claims that this reality is actually subjective and can thus not actually be known (fullbringers can subjectively alter it). The issue here to me seems to be that the fullbringers alter the metaphysical state of things, so what they do is that they actually impose others THEIR reality, but that doesn't work when Kubo says that there also is an actual reality the non-fullbringers can tell apart from the subjective reality imposed by the fullbringers because everyone is not always a part of the fullbringers imposed reality. Also, again, the question that must be asked here: which reality of reality? Is the reality even where the fullbringer powers conflict with the perceptions of others not just a subjective reality of the physical reality? I am not attempting to head into solipsism here, but I want this to work damnit :(

Except it kind of reinforces the opposite. If Tsuki's reality has a problem almost or every time when confronted with a conflicting reality in the "true" reality, then it's power is not absolute. It's kind of like a machine, supposing to be perfect, yet gets shut down when confronted with something that exists with 2 absolutely conflicting absolutes. It's a weakness, and thus an imperfection, equally denying absolute "perfection".

I see what you are saying but I disagree. I think we got different ideas of absolute. To me absolute means his powers cannot be overriden or overcome by outside means except his own. Going nuts is not the same as breaking through, as going nuts mean the reason for going nuts is exactly because you are still influenced. I see it as a true-false statement. Only if we end up with true (they break out of Tsukishima's control) wuld his powers not be absolute to me, anyway.