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  1. #21
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdblaze85 View Post
    The answer to why we haven't seen them is simple and summated in two words:

    Power differences.

    Remember what happened when the farmer tried to shoot Raditz? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COqnyplv1YE

    Sure, no ninja would catch the bullet.. but shadow clones, illusion, etc.. would have long-since rendered those weapons virtually useless against ninja. (Especially if they are of the 1-shot variety.)
    Except not really. A bullet is faster and has more piercing power than any of the A/B-class wind/lightning/earth techniques we see, or Kunai/Shuriken (including ones augmented by chakra) due to the sheer speed.

    Sure, it won't pierce through a boulder like a Raikiri, but it won't ever be dodged unless you're the Yellow Flash (and maybe not even then).

    Thinking about it, I bet ninjas could even infuse bullets with chakra to create wind/lightning bullets. So think about that!

  2. #22
    Senior Member Yondaime123's Avatar
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    If you are talking about modern guns,sure you have a point,but I think that we're talking about old guns-about the guns that were just invented and their abilities compared to other ninja tools,so to say I am not buying it. In last week's chapter discussion I made up a theory why the concepts of 'guns' and 'pistol' still exists in Narutoverse and why guns were obsoleted instead of the ninja weapons.

    The very concept of being ninja is to being silent,to fulfill your missions of assassinations without sound and with 100% precision.
    Guns just weren't made for ninjas.


    Early guns are just too inaccurate,had a small range,were too noisy,had a big reloading time and in the Narutoverse, speed,accuracy,stealth and the environment were the battles are taking place are all factors that hinder the further development of weapon technology in the Narutoverse.

    The 'the ninjas aren't fast enough to dodge those bullets' will not work here or the 'guns are the best suited for weak people to fight strong'-this is also wrong.
    Why? Because those ninjas aren't normal in the Narutoverse. Little kids are so powerful there,that they can beat the shit out of adults and they are only Genins,which is the lowest rank in the hierarchy of power in the world of Naruto.

    And if you by any chance counter me with the argument: 'then why don't they administer weapons between genins or chuunins,because they will surely pwn other fellow ranked people or even jounins with ease!' my response to this beside what I wrote up for the usefulness of guns is:
    Ninjas are not suited to battle with just 1 weapon.
    Sure the guns may have the chance to one shot one kill the enemy,but Ninjas are versatile battle-oriented people(I may have written it wrong),but what I am trying to get at is that they are not relying only on one thing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Yondaime,

    I don't see why we have to limit our discussions to primitive guns, even so , if we were limited to say the Wild West's Six shooters, some of those guys were very fast on the draw. Imagine then a six shooter with chakra enhanced bulets, those would go through boulders easily.

    When you say that Ninjas are not suited to guns, you seem to be ignoring Ninja Wars where Ninjas are exchanging barrages of kunais and shurikens, and some of them are killed that way. Imagine how much more efficient the War Killings would be with Chakra Enhanced Cowboy style pistols and/or rifles.

    It is evident that Kishi cannot allow guns in this manga unless he wants to eliminate Ninjas, and have Special Forces like SEALS instead.

    I think that references to guns and the drawing of one were errors or oversights and I don't expect that to happen again or happen too frequently.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    @Yondaime,

    I don't see why we have to limit our discussions to primitive guns, even so , if we were limited to say the Wild West's Six shooters, some of those guys were very fast on the draw. Imagine then a six shooter with chakra enhanced bulets, those would go through boulders easily.

    When you say that Ninjas are not suited to guns, you seem to be ignoring Ninja Wars where Ninjas are exchanging barrages of kunais and shurikens, and some of them are killed that way. Imagine how much more efficient the War Killings would be with Chakra Enhanced Cowboy style pistols and/or rifles.

    It is evident that Kishi cannot allow guns in this manga unless he wants to eliminate Ninjas, and have Special Forces like SEALS instead.

    I think that references to guns and the drawing of one were errors or oversights and I don't expect that to happen again or happen too frequently.
    Agreed, and not only that^ but with chakra enhanced +ninja enhanced reflexes. The same speed Itachi shows in making seals would make like "Wanted" level capabilities with guns possible in Naruto. Not to mention all those sneaky (somehow still don't really understand exactly how) underground attacks , even with the simple guns and fodder ninja it could be a slaughter-fest.

    And yes paulbee's right in that it's not really that guns would be unimportant or useless, but that they would make ninjas kind of too efficient killers, that these matches would be completely different, and possibly considered a waste with the overkill on killing ability.



    Although just to add, something I've noticed and thought about a bit; I don't think it prevents a true noticeable difference in damage, (especially considering where most ninjas seem to aim their strikes in the 1st place), when it comes kunais, shurikens, swords, fists or chakra-natred-powered kunais, shurikens, swords, fists, but with guns, the forehead protectors could really be the difference between life and death...

    I mean it makes a bit more sense...
    if perhaps that was more of the original purpose behind forehead protectors in the NU.

    Don't know what that would mean exactly if it's right though; just a thought..
    There are more things in heaven and earth then is dreamt of in your philosophy

  5. #25
    Senior Member Yondaime123's Avatar
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    Okay I just got back from outside and saw your post. Please read carefully what I am writing now.
    The point/matter/message I've been trying to make/convey to you is that Ninjas cannot simply change their battle tactics by discarding their weapons for the not-so-good guns.

    I made up the theory in the previous chapter's discussion(if you want me I will re-post it here) and in this thread I wrote why guns are not suited for NINJAS,BUT MORE FOR SOLDIERS(like the special forces @Paulbee mentioned),because I wanted not only to explain the usage of 'pistol',but to say why guns were obsoleted.

    It seems I uselessly argued for that,because all you reply is :'you are making up things;you are setting up limitations of guns advancement;what about more advanced weapons'.

    If they were not obsoleted then either they'd have advanced the 'guns' to a level where shurikens,kunais,summons and such are useless on the battlefield,because it will be totally different warfare and thus the whole Ninja way goes to hell OR they have advanced them to the stage 'if we were limited to say the Wild West's Six shooters,' where your bullets run out and then ...making up different ammunition(bullets) according to the ninja's chakra type.
    That doesn't sound bad-cowboys fighting each other like that,but how the hell are ninjas going to turn into cowboys-and this is why I explained that ninjas are following their ninja way which will surely not be changed easy with no-good guns.

    Now to the point of my argument when trying to break apart your points: @Paulbee,you said
    'When you say that Ninjas are not suited to guns, you seem to be ignoring Ninja Wars where Ninjas are exchanging barrages of kunais and shurikens, and some of them are killed that way.'

    I am not ignoring in any way that kind of warfare. Please take in mind what I have been trying to say is old guns and I mean more older than the medieval age guns,the range is bested out by
    bows,crossbows,kunais with exploding tags,long range tech's and maybe other things in the arsenal of ninjas. Yes,Warfare boils down not only to those weapons,but let's say smokebombs are thrown out and what? Shoot in the darkness with 200 guns that with 20-50 m range or hellish rain of kunais with exploding tags attached to them?

    Are you going to launch the ninjas in battle with light to heavy weight guns and the following ammunition? ( I do not know the exact weight of old guns and I am making an assumption here),
    where normal equipped ninjas can compensate with a lot of weapons for little to medium weight thus ninjas being able to move faster?
    The kind of warfare you want to convey to me will be only effective when weapons such as canons are used. That's what I think.

    '..shooter with chakra enhanced bulets, those would go through boulders easily.'
    For that saying my contra-argument is: Good point,but enchanted kunais can easily get through boulders too. That was shown in the manga. Hell,there was even enchanted pencils,swords,enchanted shurikens and kunais again,but leaving them behind,even ninja's tech's can get past boulders easily as well.

    'It is evident that Kishi cannot allow guns in this manga unless he wants to eliminate Ninjas, and have Special Forces like SEALS instead.'
    That's right,but I'm shaping my comments in a way,where I'm giving a different reason besides this one for why guns are not used in Narutoverse warfare. Another interesting thing I want to point out what is the role of "Ultimate weapons" in Naruto then?
    You can always says what @Paulbee wrote and you can be right,but can you say I am right for making and explaining theories why there are not guns?

  6. #26
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    Looks like bullets to me:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz-w2B3c4NA

    Effectiveness? None. Sure, you could say Gaara is unique, but any ninja could technically use a substitution jutsu when shot at. Assuming it hits. Pistols are very hard to shoot - if your opponent is fast, the human eye can't track their movement fast enough and you will miss - too hard to lead the target.

  7. #27
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I think that the one reason that truely matters, why there are no Guns in NarutoVerse, is that Kishi has decreed it so. Kishi original wanted a mystical magical manga, but changed his mind to make it resemble Japanese aincient culture, enhanced by something called chakra. He really wanted to limit technology, and he said so in his interview.

    What spured this thread was the seeming inconsistency with 2Mitzukage and his pistol jutsu. Anyway I think we've said all that can be said. We should just watch for the next thing in Naruto.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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