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  1. #161
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    To me, it seems that knowing the name is the same as gaining shikai. Not just based on Ichigo, but we have never seen anyone that know's the name of their zan without being able to do shikai, and the same goes the other way around. I think what really makes you unlock it is unlocking more of you're inner self, and connecting to you're inner power. Basically just like Guy's 8 gates, the power is there, it's just yourself and no hax, but it takes allot to actually access that power.


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  2. #162
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    that may be true but that doesnt take into account the ppl that have 2 or more shikai, for example urahara has 6 shikai powers and rukia has 4, so i would assume that it does take some training to figure them all out but tbh anything is plausible at this point but if you just mean the shikai release then you are prolly correct, as we havent seen any1 actually do any training to learn it. it is also why i want to see ichigo learn more than just the initial releases of shikai and bankai coz they are just boring and i think ichigo should learn more different shikai and bankai powers as only being able to use Getsuga Tenshō gets boring in the long run.

  3. #163
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Indeed, how boring isn't Getsuga starting to get by now? It's like Naruto with only Kage Bunshin. And I agree that unlocking the rest(if any, can't be certain that everyone have several) is something else then just knowing how to do the release and use the "base" power. But the question is, how do they learn it, do they spend hours meditating with their sword? Do they have to fight the sword in their inner? Because it seems that people knows instantly what the sword can do after they learn a new release, as far as i can remember the only one we have seen do this is Ichigo, we havn't seen anyone else atm they learn it. But he never had any problem knowing what it can do. So once again, how do they learn more?


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  4. #164
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    It seems that both Kubo and Kishi both like to skip out on any of the main characters ability progression to the point where every other character in the series seems to leave them behind by possessing around 15 different abilities while the main character is still limited to 1 or 2. I think what disappoints me the most is the fact that everyone's zanpakuto seems to have some type of element to it except Ichigo's.

    When I first saw his bankai it was my immediate reaction to question what it could do and what it's abilities might be seeing as how Hitsugaya had Ice, Yamamoto had fire, and even Aizen's zanpakuto had been classified as a flowing-water type. I thought "Ok it's black that seems kinda cool, Kubo must be going for a dark powered protagonist that's kinda rare for a shonen". The fact that Zangetsu's name means moon cutter and his zanpakuto started using black reiatsu for getsuga's instead of Icigo's blue shikai one's seemed to make it clear enough, but now I am under the impression that It is black merely because Kubo wants it to be.

    The way his progression has come along and how he seems to have no abilities other than a reiatsu attack and a hax move that almost completely depletes your reiatsu for good makes me believe that kubo will have him keep using getsuga. Then Kubo had the nerve to give Ichigo one more techique calling it the final getsuga (implying that would be his last attack) leading me to believe that Ichigo will keep using getsuga tenshou until he encounters an enemy that's too strong for him to beat with bankai or hollowfication alone and so he has to use final getsuga again, then we may see another arc with him powerless for a little while....etc rinse and repeat for 10 good years.

    I could be wrong though after all in Naruto Kishi kept Naruto with Kage bunshin and Rasengan except towards (I suppose) the end where he started pulling out rasengan's in 20 different flavors. Perhaps all his attacks don't have to be called getsuga.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Does that mean we just went on topic again?

    Also, I was thinking on something we haven't touched upon but is relevant - does learning the name of one's zanpakuto always result in automatically gaining shikai, or must one still have to go through the process of learning shikai like with bankai? I obviously don't consider Ichigo a perfect example here since as usual he's the exception to the rule.
    Well, learning the name of your zan, doesn't mean you will know how and could use it's power, it will only reveal it's form, that's all. For the rest, you need to comunicate with it, as Hichigo said: "A stranger doesn't become your friend, just by knowing his name".

    It's possible that only knowing it's name and not speaking with it, or being in bad relations, might actually weaken the shinigami. It's possible that it will not lend it's power whenever you want it, just like in the case with Kyouraku's zan.

  6. #166
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    that would make sense, i think it was zangetsu that said to ichigo "knowing the name of the attack gives it power" when ichigo first did the getsuga while training, so it would make sense that simply knowing your zan's name wont be enough and you need to develop a certain kind of relationship with it and the deeper the relationship is the more of its power is released.

  7. #167
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Well, learning the name of your zan, doesn't mean you will know how and could use it's power, it will only reveal it's form, that's all. For the rest, you need to comunicate with it, as Hichigo said: "A stranger doesn't become your friend, just by knowing his name".

    It's possible that only knowing it's name and not speaking with it, or being in bad relations, might actually weaken the shinigami. It's possible that it will not lend it's power whenever you want it, just like in the case with Kyouraku's zan.
    In an attempt to not re-open the Zaraki shikai debate I would like to mention that there possibly exist various exceptions to this rule.

  8. #168
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    In an attempt to not re-open the Zaraki shikai debate I would like to mention that there possibly exist various exceptions to this rule.
    I'm also not hoping to reopen that discussion but, there is no way to prove that he has a shikai, so you can't use it as an example. From what said and seen, it's not a shikai, the possibility is there, but don't use an assumption as an example.


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  9. #169
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    lol guys I'm sorry if my question is that's where it's heading, it was just that it popped into my head and I found it curious we've never seen any confirmation of it, pretty much given past debate on said issue.

    Also, Execution, not because it will probably make you feel better but there is a reason why Ichigo got so few abilities. He would be too hax with more and it would defeat his purpose being the protagonist. He should always have to struggle somewhat or it becomes boring storytelling. Having more abilities would most likely result in him ultimately becoming kind of OP so refusing to letting him have more abilities is to keep him a bit in line. The protagonist must be stronger than the others in the cast (with few exceptions i.e. the villain(s)) but still not strong enough to kick their asses without effort.

    With that said, yes, I agree with you that Ichigo could use some more abilities and more specifically learning kido, but that's just not going to happen seeing the paragraph above. Also, it partially has to do with his archetype not being the prodigy guy (e.g. Sasuke). Rather, Ichigo learns things on his own through trial and error than being taught how to do special attacks and that has an impact as well. I guess getsuga tensho could really use an update at least, though. Would be cool if he could at least split it up into smaller projectiles and so on.

    I think a big problem I have with Ichigo's powers in general is that his powers don't allow for particularly interesting fighting mechanics. He hacks and slashes and then does the occassional getsuga and that's it. I for example think of Advent Children and how they changed Cloud's Buster Sword into the Fusions Swords and how having two or more weapons always available at "switch" actually allowed for really interesting combat mechanics. Anyway, seeing how much of an FFVII whore I became lately had to add that
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