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  1. #41
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    So you ask me, why Bee won ? It's because of the speed, it not only tapped to Raikage's destructive power, but to Bee's as well, but Bee's lariat was stronger (he put more strengh in it than A) and he stood firmly like a mountain, he was unmovable and so, Raikage's speed turned agains him.
    Naah.. of course, he put more strenght to it, but it that's not the only reasoning WHY he got stronger then Raikage in lariat. Bolded lines in my quote below:

    Killer Bee made Raikage remember, what his true source was for being the person he's right now. It's true that Killer Bee owned Raikage with lariat, but Raikage's forgot that Killer Bee took his words, as his primary goal. Killer Bee's intention was from day one, to own his brother in lariat, for letting him know.. how strong he become with those words that he has spoken by the waterfall.
    It's the same way, how Naruto summoned Kage Bunshins, when Iruka saved him and said that he understood Naruto's pain and loneliness etc. It's also not a suprise, if you ask me; the previous generations owns the next generations. The love that the current generation gets from the previous generations, makes them STRONGER and it's also the key for protecting the ones they love in the future.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    I understand your frustation, why Naruto.. as the new up-coming Hero, gives a lame answer. BUT, don't forget that these last 2 chapters, were all about Raikage's perspective on Jinchirikuu's and how he forgot, where he stood for. These two chapters showed us, that Killer Bee truly understands Naruto and what Iruka was for Naruto, was Raikage for Killer Bee. The deepest love and passion that you get, from a person that acknowledge you for what you're.. is the golden key what makes them STRONGER.
    I don't really see how that excuses Naruto's childish responses. I do hope that he eventually comes up with some good answers but frankly I don't see why he hasn't provided some already. Like I have said many times in the past, Naruto's attitude right now isn't something that gives people a reason to believe in him. Yes, he usually wins but that isn't really the point, the big question he has been faced with is how does he eliminate generations of hatred when no one else could. Lately his answer to that has been to plow through people without reqard for the views of others, its a might makes right attitude and that attitude isn't believeably going to change the world even if he were to miraculously win. The Raikage's perspective is also extreme and emotionally charged but the point he makes in this chapter is a valid one, there is really no evidence to support how Naruto would beat Madara at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    At first, the hatred and darkness powers that they have inside of them through the bijuu, makes them isolated from the rest. They got all consumed by that from the inside and on top of that; when nobody cares for you @ all, they'll lose themselfs. Naruto had a far harsher life then Killer Bee, but in essention; it's the same.
    You see I really don't think Naruto has had it all that bad, at least not when compared with many other characters, that is why when he preaches like he understands what loss is nowdays I have trouble buying it. When you look at people like Sasuke, Itachi, Nagato, Gaara, Kakashi etc. Naruto's life seems quite good. He had to deal with bullying as a kid and his parents died before he was born but in the ninja world that stuff seems fairly common. His attitude still comes off as very naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Killer Bee made Raikage remember, what his true source was for being the person he's right now. It's true that Killer Bee owned Raikage with lariat, but Raikage's forgot that Killer Bee took his words, as his primary goal. Killer Bee's intention was from day one, to own his brother in lariat, for letting him know.. how strong he become with those words that he has spoken by the waterfall.
    Yet that still doesn't give creedance to how they will overcome Madara. Like I said the whole, we can win because we believe in ourselves is bogus. I could accept that in an episode of care bears and I accept that this is a manga targeted at kids but Kishimoto has gone out of his way to intruduce more mature themes and ideologies so I expect him to give some more legitimate reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    It's the same way, how Naruto summoned Kage Bunshins, when Iruka saved him and said that he understood Naruto's pain and loneliness etc. It's also not a suprise, if you ask me; the previous generations owns the next generations. The love that the current generation gets for the previous generations, makes them STRONGER and it's also the key for protecting the ones they love in the future.
    How does that support the stance they are taking though? The story has been written to make the younger generation stronger, they gain strong motivation to strengthen themselves through the love bestowed upon them, fine. My problem is that I think the story is really failing to show the younger generation, particularly Naruto at the moment, as being more worthy of that role than his predecessors. Its as I said, when comparing Naruto to Minato, or Jiraiya, or Kakashi, he seems like a pretentious brat. I don't see what makes him better than them besides the fact that he has the benefit of being gifted with some powers that they did not have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Remeber what Gaara's said @ the meeting; since when did you guys lost yourselfs?? Tsuchikage got convinced by Gaara's quote and realized that there could be HOPE again, for believing in his previous idealogy. Only Raikage had to get convinced and that happened right now.
    Gaara argued against the idea of basically sacrificing the Jinnchuuriki, or making them weapons. I don't really see how that supports the renegade attitude of Naruto and Killerbee. He himself said that it was foolish to use Naruto and Killerbee as weapons and was the first to point out that the the objective was to protect them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    THAT'S WHY ARTIFICE, it was not Naruto's moment to shine, in these last chapters. It was all made for Killer Bee / Raikage. Naruto's reasoning will COME, later on when he faces Sasuke, Madara. That's the moment for him to show us, where he stands for.
    Just because it isn't his moment to shine doesn't mean he has to carry himself like a 12 year old on a power trip. My problem with Naruto is that he seems to ignore any opinion that doesn't involve him spear heading a heroic rescue of everyone. Like I said, look at the things Naruto says compared to the things Minato said, Naruto carries himself like a loud mouthed brat while Minato carries himself like a calculating leader. I just want Naruto to grow up a bit. I don't see how his current actions are building a foundation for lasting piece or how they are better than the actions of his predecessors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Also, Killer Bee's reasoning wasn't that lame at all if you ask me:

    Spoiler!


    " Both me and Naruto will put our unwavering confidence to the TEST! We ourselves are the ones who knows the BEST " . Killer Bee had to rhyme Test and Best, but still; its true what he said. We've to wait for Naruto's moment.. and besides, Naruto isn't even trying his best. he wanted to pass by speed, but hasn't even used his raw strenght powers against Raikage, why? Because again: it's all about Raikage and Killer Bee.
    The Mangasteam translation is different. Even with that aside though, what makes Naruto and Killerbee the ones who know best? What have they done to prove that they are more fit strategists than the Kages? Whether Killerbee can out punch Raikage or not is irrelevant, it doesn't answer the question of how they can be sure that they can beat Madara. Just being able to beat down Raikage does not justify Naruto and Bee's position. The risk to the world remains virtually the same whether Bee or Naruto can beat Raikage or not. Their defeat will mean the end of the world and neither have really provided a reason for why they should be allowed to face that challenge, particularily in the manner that they have chosen. Its as Gaara said, the point of this war is to protect the Jinnchuuriki, if the Jinchuuriki are trying to save everyone else, they aren't being protected. Using them to some extent might not be a bad idea but only as part of a well formulated plan that puts emphasis on keeping them out of Madara's hands, not them charging in head on as they appear to be doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    It was a given, that Tsunade wouldn't stop Naruto in the end.. because it would be contradictional, for what she stood and believed in from day one, whe she met Naruto.
    Not necessarily, as was mentioned at the Kage summit, no one had any idea of how the Bijuu would or could be used at that point. As the Kages said, very few people where known to be able to contoll the Bijuu well and most of those listed were believed to be dead. When Pain came for Naruto they had no idea of just how big of a treat his capture could be to the world as a whole. When Tobi revealed himself to be Madara and announced his Moon's Eye Plan it changed everything. Before having the Bijuu captured didn't really mean that much, compared to what it means now, because as the elders said, they believed that Akatsuki would need many years before they could properly make use of their power.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...8/page003.html

    As stated here, the Kages did not originally see the Bijuu being captured as an immediate cause for allarm. The threat increased exponentially after Madara made it clear how he intended to use the Bijuu. I honestly think that Tsunade was willing to support Raikage at first, the reason she turned against him was because Raikage threatened to kill Naruto. As she says Naruto's death is not likely profitable to them in the long run, that much is valid. The problem is that it still doesn't answer Raikage's ultimate question, which is "what proof is their that Naruto can win," gambling the entire world on a big maybe is not pratical and for the leader of a nation it is completely fair for him to demand an answer because the fate of the entire world is resting on it. As I have pointed out in the past if a world leader were to say 'I know the entire world is at risk but don't worry I will find a way to fix it and although I have no specific plan you should just put your faith in me," that would not be satisfactory to anyone regardless of their repport.

  3. #43
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    Wow artifice well, it's time to move on, shonen manga is not for you anymore, proceed to Seinen manga xD

  4. #44
    The Heropon! Sirxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garuda_hawk View Post
    Wow artifice well, it's time to move on, shonen manga is not for you anymore, proceed to Seinen manga xD
    Yeah, you can be sure that artifice NEVER watches movies just for the explosions! Or the breasts! Or the breasts diving away from the explosions in slow motion!!!

    But he definitely has a strong, valid point, story- and character-wise. Maybe in the hands of a better writer, such lack of storytelling wouldn't have to be masked in odd lariat battles. It's pretty much the epitome of "Don't notice that the ICE is SINKING--Just look at the awesome explosions and root for the good guys to get away in their sharkmarines!" (You've gotta watch G.I. Joe! Awesomingly Stupid!!!)

    THEY CANCELLED THE REAL PIRATE KINGS OF RAFTEL?!!!



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