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  1. #31
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    lol@kiduka: interestig theory, i say work out the quirks and you got something there!

    and @zero: bro, i understand clearly WHY it happened and the point that kishi was making across.. what i don't understand is the HOW, according to naruto physics, it happened.. according to the physical laws that kishi has established, there's no way that should've happened; wtf!? raikage can cut off his own arm while in that raiton armor level 2.. killerbee should've been ripped apart if not protected by his bijuu cloak! i want some explanation! >:[

    and as far as naruto overcoming shinra tensei with his own skill, it didn't happen.. it was purely the kyyubi's doing >:]
    Killerbee also has a Lightning nature, and just as his Lariat is now stronger than Raikage's, so also is his lightning nature as strong or even stronger.

    My answer then is that Bee used his own prodigious lightning Nature to counter ballance Raikage's, hence he was not injured.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Killerbee also has a Lightning nature, and just as his Lariat is now stronger than Raikage's, so also is his lightning nature as strong or even stronger.

    My answer then is that Bee used his own prodigious lightning Nature to counter ballance Raikage's, hence he was not injured.
    That would make sense in theory but usually when someone augments their abilities with their elemental nature their is a visual sign of it. The only exceptions that I can think of are examples where the technique uses an element in a subtle way, for example when Tsunade fought Kabuto and used lightening (at least I assume that's what it was, at the time it was never stated specifically) to confuse his nervous system.

    My guess is that Killer Bee was not amping himself up with lightening but rather, he was relying on sheer might and bijuu chakra. Honestly I think that is kind of lame considering that Naruto is being blown back by Raikage's strength despite being in his cloaked form, but it is what is. Another explanation could be that having Samahada with him cancelled out Raikage's chakra or reduced it, I think that would be a better explanation, but it would defeat the point of Killer Bee pointing out that his own strength had surpassed his brother's. I tend to agree with what some other have already mentioned though, it would have been far more reasonable to have Bee win with his chakra cloak active, it doesn't seem to make much sense that he is suddenly stronger now without it when there was really no indication of him being stronger earlier on.

    As for the chapter in general, I think it started off strong with Minato's exchange with Raikage and Killer bee, it showed the types of tactics that ninja's actually use to win. Minato surprising Raikage by warping behind Bee rather than just continuing to warp to one of his other kunai was interesting and a display of Minato's wit. The old war flashbacks tend to be some of the most interesting for me. Unfortunately what followed was the child version of war, Killer Bee reiterates Naruto's non existent argument, of 'we don't need to explain, we gonna win because we say so.' Why do the current protagonist have to be portrayed as such dim wits in comparison to the older heroes? Looking at Minato's dialog compared to Naruto's it is really depressing.

    Lines like "Naruto and I won't lose to them, well beat there asses ten times out of ten," and "awesome excuse granny, well its not an excuse.." To me those lines sound like they are coming from 12 year old kids, not battle ready warriors.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    and as far as naruto overcoming shinra tensei with his own skill, it didn't happen.. it was purely the kyyubi's doing >:]
    He did it with Kage Bunshins, it was after the part where the 4th resealed the kyubi.

  4. #34
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    That would make sense in theory but usually when someone augments their abilities with their elemental nature their is a visual sign of it. The only exceptions that I can think of are examples where the technique uses an element in a subtle way, for example when Tsunade fought Kabuto and used lightening (at least I assume that's what it was, at the time it was never stated specifically) to confuse his nervous system.

    My guess is that Killer Bee was not amping himself up with lightening but rather, he was relying on sheer might and bijuu chakra. Honestly I think that is kind of lame considering that Naruto is being blown back by Raikage's strength despite being in his cloaked form, but it is what is. Another explanation could be that having Samahada with him cancelled out Raikage's chakra or reduced it, I think that would be a better explanation, but it would defeat the point of Killer Bee pointing out that his own strength had surpassed his brother's. I tend to agree with what some other have already mentioned though, it would have been far more reasonable to have Bee win with his chakra cloak active, it doesn't seem to make much sense that he is suddenly stronger now without it when there was really no indication of him being stronger earlier on.

    As for the chapter in general, I think it started off strong with Minato's exchange with Raikage and Killer bee, it showed the types of tactics that ninja's actually use to win. Minato surprising Raikage by warping behind Bee rather than just continuing to warp to one of his other kunai was interesting and a display of Minato's wit. The old war flashbacks tend to be some of the most interesting for me. Unfortunately what followed was the child version of war, Killer Bee reiterates Naruto's non existent argument, of 'we don't need to explain, we gonna win because we say so.' Why do the current protagonist have to be portrayed as such dim wits in comparison to the older heroes? Looking at Minato's dialog compared to Naruto's it is really depressing.

    Lines like "Naruto and I won't lose to them, well beat there asses ten times out of ten," and "awesome excuse granny, well its not an excuse.." To me those lines sound like they are coming from 12 year old kids, not battle ready warriors.
    I understand your frustation, why Naruto.. as the new up-coming Hero, gives a lame answer. BUT, don't forget that these last 2 chapters, were all about Raikage's perspective on Jinchirikuu's and how he forgot, where he stood for. These two chapters showed us, that Killer Bee truly understands Naruto and what Iruka was for Naruto, was Raikage for Killer Bee. The deepest love and passion that you get, from a person that acknowledge you for what you're.. is the golden key what makes them STRONGER.

    At first, the hatred and darkness powers that they have inside of them through the bijuu, makes them isolated from the rest. They got all consumed by that from the inside and on top of that; when nobody cares for you @ all, they'll lose themselfs. Naruto had a far harsher life then Killer Bee, but in essention; it's the same.

    Killer Bee made Raikage remember, what his true source was for being the person he's right now. It's true that Killer Bee owned Raikage with lariat, but Raikage's forgot that Killer Bee took his words, as his primary goal. Killer Bee's intention was from day one, to own his brother in lariat, for letting him know.. how strong he become with those words that he has spoken by the waterfall.

    It's the same way, how Naruto summoned Kage Bunshins, when Iruka saved him and said that he understood Naruto's pain and loneliness etc. It's also not a suprise, if you ask me; the previous generations owns the next generations. The love that the current generation gets for the previous generations, makes them STRONGER and it's also the key for protecting the ones they love in the future.

    Remeber what Gaara's said @ the meeting; since when did you guys lost yourselfs?? Tsuchikage got convinced by Gaara's quote and realized that there could be HOPE again, for believing in his previous idealogy. Only Raikage had to get convinced and that happened right now.

    THAT'S WHY ARTIFICE, it was not Naruto's moment to shine, in these last chapters. It was all made for Killer Bee / Raikage. Naruto's reasoning will COME, later on when he faces Sasuke, Madara. That's the moment for him to show us, where he stands for. Also, Killer Bee's reasoning wasn't that lame at all if you ask me:

    Spoiler!


    " Both me and Naruto will put our unwavering confidence to the TEST! We ourselves are the ones who knows the BEST " . Killer Bee had to rhyme Test and Best, but still; its true what he said. We've to wait for Naruto's moment.. and besides, Naruto isn't even trying his best. he wanted to pass by speed, but hasn't even used his raw strenght powers against Raikage, why? Because again: it's all about Raikage and Killer Bee.

    It was a given, that Tsunade wouldn't stop Naruto in the end.. because it would be contradictional, for what she stood and believed in from day one, whe she met Naruto.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  5. #35
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    it's not so much about how the raikage is pushing naruto around like a pussy lol sure let's give it to naruto, since he's holding back, and not going after the raikage to kill him, but regardless; naruto himself has stated how powerful the raikage is, and how heavy his blows are CONSIDERING that naruto is in his kyuubi cloak to protect him. do you guys think naruto would survive such hits without his kyuubi cloak? no he'll be teared apart!!

    but somehow killerbee can take such destructive power without his bijuu cloak to protect him, bare skin.. it makes NO sense! Yes, i get it that kishi is showing that their true strength doesn't come from the bijuu but from themselves, but kishi took it WAY TOO far!!!

    there should be no human alive which can take that, no matter how many steroids or bodybuilding he's done! period! this is the man that broke one of susano'os' ribs!!!!(sure it was still incomplete but STILL) and now killerbee is not only able to withstand such a hit with NO injury whatsoever, but he overcomes it!!! without his bijuu coak!?


    WTF kishi, WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!?!?!?!!? >:[ makes no sense.

    i WANT either the raikage admitting to himself that he was holding back, or killerbeen showing some signs of injury afterwards, or SOME EXPLANATION!!!


    that being said, what a great manga can't wait until naruto finally joins tha battlefield!! >:]
    And witness the sparkle within this world of darkness.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ ... he wrenched his ankle by jumping on the wall, it gives little to none defensive boost (because in sage mode he didn't even have a scar for falling from a very high place with a great impact).

    Naruto is a close range fighter who takes hits like no one other in the manga. His defense, durability and stamina are above normal without any kinds boosts from kyubi or sage mode, yet look how much can he add to it. The same goes for Bee as he is close range, well build, sword master.


    You mistake the new kyubi cloak as an advanced form of sage mode.

    The so6p mode gives:
    - speed boost,
    - power boost,
    - emotion sensor,
    - easier (as Bee mentioned) shape manipulation (forming hands with chakra),
    - much more chakra ---> bigger jutsus,
    - risk of your chakras being "eaten" by the beast, in other words, being taken over by the bijuu,

    The sage mode gives:
    - defense boost,
    - power boost,
    - manipulation of nature energy ---> frog katsu,
    - life sensor,
    - stronger and more chakra ---> bigger and stronger jutsu, called senjutsu,
    - risk of turning in to a stone frog.

    The kyubi cloak gives:
    - power boost,
    - speed boost,
    - defense boost,
    - regeneration,
    - chakra of it's own mind,
    - much more chakra,
    - risk of being taken over by the bijuu.

  7. #37
    Well it was nice knowing some more about the past of the Bee brothers but they seriously need to get to the action, I want to see Madara Vs Naruto, heck i want to see Itachis countermeasure.

  8. #38
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Hang on Hold your Horses....Just what do you guys mean by "Kyuubi Cloak."

    The Shining flames surrounding naruto right now have never been called the Kyuubi Cloak. That is in contrast to the Black/red aura that used to surround him before he gained control of the Kyuubi. That was officially called a Kyuubi Cloak and it did make Naruto impervious to physical injury.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  9. #39
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Hang on Hold your Horses....Just what do you guys mean by "Kyuubi Cloak."

    The Shining flames surrounding naruto right now have never been called the Kyuubi Cloak. That is in contrast to the Black/red aura that used to surround him before he gained control of the Kyuubi. That was officially called a Kyuubi Cloak and it did make Naruto impervious to physical injury.
    You're right Paul.. the moment when he loses his conscience, he gets the Kyuubi Cloak: simple put; 4 tails and 6 tails Kyuubi. But the flames that you pointed out, is what they ^^^^^^^ were talking about ( well, that's what I think ).

    @ the others; if naruto can mix his sage mode with this R- mode, he'll be ultimate. Naruto can't make any bunshins in this mode, but if he can fill that energy with by tapping it from his Sage- Mode, he will be unstoppable. Paul Bee had a real good theory of this.. and there's a great change for that to be executed.

    - BUT the finish it up; I still believe that Itachi's powers is going to be the last thing he needs, for getting rid of Madara / Sasuke. A temporarly Rinnegan Mode versus Sharingan.. this way, we can witness why Rinnegan is being called as the strongest doujutsu and we can witness the ultimate powers of Sharngan -> Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.

    Itachi already gave us ( the readers ) a hint, what for deadly combination it would be, if someone possesss both Rinnegan and Sharingan: meaning; watch OUT for Madara

    ** and guys, read my post above. These scenes were all about Killer Bee and Raikage. Naruto could have pwned Raikage if he wanted too, but that wasn't the essention of these latest chapters. It was all executed in this method, so that Raikage remembers where he stood for back in the days etc.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  10. #40
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Hang on Hold your Horses....Just what do you guys mean by "Kyuubi Cloak."

    The Shining flames surrounding naruto right now have never been called the Kyuubi Cloak. That is in contrast to the Black/red aura that used to surround him before he gained control of the Kyuubi. That was officially called a Kyuubi Cloak and it did make Naruto impervious to physical injury.
    Yes, I was talking about the shining flames form, that's why I called it the so6p mode or the new kyubi cloak (as it's a cloak, comes from the kyubi, it's new and different from the one before).



    @Sims, Raikage is very strong, his raiton armor boosts his speed and defense, I'm not sure if it really works for strenght, but if you add a great speed to a great power, you have an even greater demage.

    So you ask me, why Bee won ? It's because of the speed, it not only tapped to Raikage's destructive power, but to Bee's as well, but Bee's lariat was stronger (he put more strengh in it than A) and he stood firmly like a mountain, he was unmovable and so, Raikage's speed turned agains him.

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