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  1. #51
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shock View Post
    Im not convinced its a genjutsu that Neji is under, or even some kind of control via chakra. Him and the Hyuugas are masters of chakra control both inside and outside their bodies. There is no way he would fall under a genjutsu since the whole process of genjutsu is to inject the casters chakra into the target to control their senses. Neji would immediately eject it once he felt it enter his body, which is why genjutsu doesn't work on that clan. And any kind of fine chakra controlled mind barrier or whatever would probably fall under the same conditions of the genjutsu, chakra based, injected into his body, immediately rejected. So the only thing that I can think of is that its a form of mind control via mind body switch, or a very high degree of bunshin like Zetsu can make or Kabuto. Im so curious to find out who is behind this, or maybe Neji is the one who is sane and killing the traitors himself, hmmmmm
    i doubt it with that diabolical smile lol... and as far as byakugan users and genjutsu goes, many feel the same way you do; but truth be told, we have yet to see a real interaction in the manga. we have yet to see how a byakugan fairs against genjutsu, and the matter itself has never been discussed in the manga.

    genjutsu works by attacking the brain directly and then influencing all the senses, including chakra-related senses. the byakugan-user might have an advantage compared to fodder-nin because he might be able to actually catch sight of the chakra moving the air towards him(and his brain) and can rwact according; but once hit, they'll probably be another victim depending on the genjutsu-level and whatnot. The sharingan has been specifically stated to be useful against genjutsu, probably due to its mirror-like nature, which can even reflect the genjutsu back on its user.

    Karin, also seems to imply that she would be able to tell if she's under genjutsu or not, but again, that can be due to her specific chakra-sensing ability, i forgot the name of the technique, but it has something to do with an "inner eye" if i remember correctly.

    i always wanted to se ehow a byakugan-user fairs aginst genjutsu, but kishi hasn't provided a chance.

    i too look forward to see what's the deal with neji.
    And witness the sparkle within this world of darkness.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    We still don't know that much about byakugan. We know what it does, how it works (?), but we don't know where it comes from or if what we know is the true extend of it's power.

    Sharingan was supposed to be a diversification/mutation of the byaguan, yet in the later part of the manga, it never was confirmed.

    If, Kakashi's assumption is correct then byakugan came from the rinnegan before sharingan, yet it was never mentioned by Tobi, no he even stated (?) that it (sharingan) came directly from the older brother, whose eye powers were the closest to Sage's. This could mean, that byakugan actually came from the younger brother's children.

    That (^) assumption can still be correct, if byakugan was even before rinnegan, then it would mean that rinnegan is a mutation of byakugan, so in that case, it would mean that sharingan really came from the byakugan, though there were few forms between those two (rinnegan, older brother's unknown doujutsu).

    It's possible that at some point the descendants of the brothers reunited and created a new clan, with new power, called Hyuga.

    There was even a theory that So6p had a daughter and that is from exactly where the byakugan came from.

  3. #53
    They're showing the moon a lot now. Maybe Madara is casting his Eternal Tskuyomi? I don't think it'll last permanently but temporarily.

    Didn't Neji stare at the moon? Thus maybe he is brainwashed.

  4. #54
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    We still don't know that much about byakugan. We know what it does, how it works (?), but we don't know where it comes from or if what we know is the true extend of it's power.

    Sharingan was supposed to be a diversification/mutation of the byaguan, yet in the later part of the manga, it never was confirmed.

    If, Kakashi's assumption is correct then byakugan came from the rinnegan before sharingan, yet it was never mentioned by Tobi, no he even stated (?) that it (sharingan) came directly from the older brother, whose eye powers were the closest to Sage's. This could mean, that byakugan actually came from the younger brother's children.

    That (^) assumption can still be correct, if byakugan was even before rinnegan, then it would mean that rinnegan is a mutation of byakugan, so in that case, it would mean that sharingan really came from the byakugan, though there were few forms between those two (rinnegan, older brother's unknown doujutsu).

    It's possible that at some point the descendants of the brothers reunited and created a new clan, with new power, called Hyuga.

    There was even a theory that So6p had a daughter and that is from exactly where the byakugan came from.
    The strongest theory I've heard is exactly as you said; the Byakugan was first, followed by the Rinnegan, which gave birth to the Sharingan. It explains why the Sharingan is so obviously powered up compared to the Byakugan; the Rinnegan mutation is on an entirely different level from Byakugan, and requires the exceptional physical and spiritual energies from the Sage himself. The Mangekyou Sharingan holds the spiritual energy component of the Sage's Rinnegan, which became diluted over the years to the present day Sharingan possessed by most of the Uchiha clan (at least until every non-Mangekyou wielder was killed).

    How the Rinnegan came from the Byakugan is hard to guess. It's possible the Sage possessed incredible physical and spiritual energies, and unlocked his eyes upon "discovering" the true nature of ninjutsu and chakra (the eyes themselves seem to contain this discovery by giving the wielder power over every element and countless jutsu). We know that Nagato, an Uzumaki possessing strong physical energies, was able to obtain the Rinnegan, although we can only guess where he obtained the necessary spiritual energies (Madara has alluded to having "Given" Nagato the Rinnegan, despite the flashbacks showing no signs of Madara being present when Nagato first discovered he had the Rinnegan). We also know that Madara, Orochimaru, and Danzou have attempted to combine the two halves of the Rikudou lineage, essentially to re-create the power of the Rikudou. Madara himself needed to implement Hashirama's cells (the physical energies) with his own Uchiha body (the spiritual energies) before he could wield the Rinnegan.

  5. #55
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    My King is back Itachi Uchiha.. thnkz Kishi!

    I read a lot of complains about Naruto trying to give the Kyuubi his " Love no- jutsu " etc. I liked this chapter, because Nagato and Itachi will be teaming up; that has to be epic, right?

    - The beauty about this chapter was, that Naruto understands now, what the big picture is all about. Naruto understands what hatred does with you and that every person has his own perspective of how they've to deal with such matter. The difference between Sasuke and him, is that they both got consumed by hatred,.. but the scenario's were very different.
    Naruto knows how evil Nine Tails is and what he's capable off, so he will never try to convince or use his love no jutsu on him. Kyuubi is confident that Naruto can't achieve his goal; saving Sasuke from the darkness, owning Madara and bringing peace into the world.

    Deep inside, Kyuubi has a feeling that he might pull it off,.. but he has lived for centuries and just like madara; Kyuubi has no hope. The only way for changing Kyuubi's mind is; Saving Sasuke and killing Madara Uchiha. But let us not forget: if the other part of Kyuubi wasn't sealed inside of Minato,.. Naruto wouldn't be even CLOSE in changing Kyuubi's perspective about love/hatred.

    - I DONT WANT NARUTO, trying to change Kyuubi. Kyuubi has to stay evil like he is.. their relationship has to be like it is now. It's a far more beautiful combination; The Savior of the World, Yondaime Rikudou Sennin, having the most evil bijuu inside of him. The 4th Sage bringing peace into the world with such a darkness inside of him; Naruto's control over the bijuu without his help, makes it for ME, a far more badass relationship then Killer Bee's relationship with Hachibi.
    It would be lame, if he changes such a being at the end of the manga; Naruto will get his RESPECT from Kyuubi, when he kills Madara and changes Sasuke's mind.. but that doesn't mean that Kyuubi won't stop hating him.

    Darkness consumes you from the outside and the amount of love inside of you,.. is the key for overpowering such method. Naruto Manga isn't about " saving Sasuke ",.. it's kishi's perspective what darkness does with you individual. Each person has hiw own way of dealing with hatred and that's why most of the people can't understand each other. Forgiving people for their sins, isn't only for your own good,.. but also for the person who executed such deed. If the person witnessess that he can't " hurt " or " harm " you with his deeds, then he will eventually stop, because he won't get any satisfation out of it.
    That's why Naruto's answer to Sasuke was: focus all of you anger and hatred on me.. I will deal with it.

    Anyways, only Artifice said what I was thinking: the page where Nagato and Itachi Uchiha were talking with each other; was a forshadow of what will come later on in the manga, let me explain myself.

    - Itachi said; " Pain,.. it's not a stretch to say that with the powers of the Sage, The Rinnegan, combined with my MS, we could do almost ANYTHING. OF COURSE THE USER WILL USE MY ILLUSION POWERS AT THE PERFECT MOMENT. "

    First of all, this is something what Madara knew from the beginning. Madara Uchiha HAS both Rinnegan and EMS.. but he's a manipulated " Sage ". Naruto is the next generation of Nagato and Sasuke the next of Itachi.. both of them are going to be the key for owning Madara ( like I've been saying from the beginning ).

    Itachi's and Nagato's eyes on that page with the full MOON in the middle, has more meaning. Itachi's right Mangekyou Sharigan and Nagato's left Rinnegan, is exactly how Madara has implanted his Sharigan / Rinnegan eyes. What I'm trying to say is that Kabuto is going to use both of them, to fuck up Madara's plan. On top of that; he's going to try to use Itachi's T-Yomi as a final act.

    The reason why he let them keep their personality, is because he probably knows that both Itachi and Nagato, wants to destroy Madara. We all know that he will fail, but I've a feeling that Nagato and Itachi are capable of messing shit up in Madara's master plan.
    The big question is how ?!?!?

    1. Will Nagato try to destroy the Moon?
    2. We all know that Itachi T- Yomi isn't enough against Madara's EMS. Will their be a combination of Nagato's powers with Itachi's genjutsu?

    Which one will see them; Naruto, Sasuke or both of them? Is Sasuke going to witness when Nagato / Itachi are trying to destroy Madara? Will this be the moment where sasuke turns on Madara?

    I had different scenario's what Itachi's powers inside of Naruto could be.. but I'm strongly believing that his powers will be the key for awakening Rinnegan inside of Naruto, instead of making Sasuke blind when he tries to Genjutsu Naruto or when Sasuke tries to enter Naruto,.. he will see Itachi explaining to him that Madara is the reasoning of his death, and not Konoha.

    Before people are going to scream like:

    Itachi said to Naruto, I hope you don't have to use it.. so if Naruto awakens Rinnegan, that would be a positive thing etc. I KNOW that, but Itachi probably didn't know that Naruto would be destined to be the 4th Sage of the Six paths. So the consequences of his powers inside of Naruto, will be for greater good in the end. Itachi's plan B will turn out to be the key for saving the world.

    Yes, I believe that Sasuke will assist Naruto, when Naruto tries to fck up Madara.. Naruto will change Sasuke's mind first and later on; Sasuke will try to execute a suicidal jutsu against Madara. With this deed, he's trying to make it up for all of his sins and pain that he gave to Naruto, Sakura and the rest. When his plan fails, Sakura will try a look-a-like jutsu like grand Ma chiyo used on Gaara.. she will give half of her life-force for saving the one she loved and when this is happening:

    Naruto, Yondaime Rikudou Sennin.. is going RAMPAGE and butt-rape Madara's ass with his own fan

    *** About Neji; I'm still confused about that: I thought immediately that it's one of Zetzu's bodies,.. but if you read it back: Neji's face expression on the battlefield changed. It looked like he got entered through Genjutsu or a mind jutsu.

    - You see; White Zetzu sucked a lot of stronger shinobi's on the battlefield: especially at the Kage Meeting. So, why Neji.. and not one of the Kage or far more stronger ninja's, that he had manipulated way before??

    Madara is trying to fck the Medical station of the Alliance..
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  6. #56
    ^
    Nice Theory.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    @Aga Bomba

    I guess you like to write essays

    Anyway, I think Itachi will want to use his opportunity now to see how his plan worked out. He must have figuerd out by now that his trap on Tobi didnt kill him and so I guess he is worried about Sasuke. He may be thinking of somehow turning the tables in favor of Naruto.

    Im not sure if Naruto will gain Rinnegna but I do know how could that happen in theory. Rikudous powers are a combination of Senju and Uchiha bloodline. Naruto is of Uzumaki clan, those were distant relatives of Senjus so its highly posible that senjus blood runs through his veins. And now thanks to Itachi, whatever "gift" he gave to Naruto, it is safe to say it is going to be an uchiha element. If Naruto activates Itachis gift in Rikudou mode then I think thats like he would for a short amount of time, induced himself with Uchiha cells and thus - gained full Rikudous powers - and thus he possibly might gain Rinnegan. Though I doubt its going to be permanent, just till Itachis power runs out.
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  8. #58
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    @Aga Bomba

    I guess you like to write essays

    Anyway, I think Itachi will want to use his opportunity now to see how his plan worked out. He must have figuerd out by now that his trap on Tobi didnt kill him and so I guess he is worried about Sasuke. He may be thinking of somehow turning the tables in favor of Naruto.

    Im not sure if Naruto will gain Rinnegna but I do know how could that happen in theory. Rikudous powers are a combination of Senju and Uchiha bloodline. Naruto is of Uzumaki clan, those were distant relatives of Senjus so its highly posible that senjus blood runs through his veins. And now thanks to Itachi, whatever "gift" he gave to Naruto, it is safe to say it is going to be an uchiha element. If Naruto activates Itachis gift in Rikudou mode then I think thats like he would for a short amount of time, induced himself with Uchiha cells and thus - gained full Rikudous powers - and thus he possibly might gain Rinnegan. Though I doubt its going to be permanent, just till Itachis power runs out.
    Exactly.. Itachi's gift is the " Spiritual energy " that Naruto needs, for awakening Rinnegan. I forgot to metion, that it won't be a permanent thing; it will be one shot deal against Madara.

    - Naruto is strong in his Rikudou Mode, but still not on pair with Madara. His intelligence, his knownledge and life- experience combined with EMS/ Rinnegan.. that's something too be afraid off.

    ** Do you guys also remember how Yamato's woods reacted to Naruto's Rikudou Mode? Trees were growing out if his woods.. his rikudou mode has a lot amount of Life-force. I'm still not sure about it, but if Yamato's wood element reacted to it that quikly, imagine what will happen if he's standing in the forest.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  9. #59
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ What about a blood transfusion from Sasuke ? Wouldn't that help awoken his rinnegan ? Or to give him his EMS ?



    A Kyubi was belived to be the strongest and most foul of all bijuu. His hatred was for all and everything, his existence, was hatred itself (that's what people belived), yet there exists a boy he doesn't hate (he knows that it wasn't Naruto's or Kushina's fault, that he have been sealed in them). When something that hates all doesn't hate, well isn't it already a form of affection ?

    He showed much more than hate for some characters as well. He was impressed by Sasuke's chakra, he seemed to be respectful of Madara's power (with is funny, as he was the one, who painted him in the colors people see him now). He even mentioned So6p, with may mean he remembers him well (he was pretty shocked at seeing the seal). How he feels towards the Sage ? It's unknown, though from the manner of his last conversation with Naruto, he seemed to imply that there were many who tired to create world peace, but they all failed, even the great So6p with was even considered a god couldn't do it. That is why the bijuu got angry and frustrated at that naive blond haired boy, for spouting such nonsens, but that's how it is, just like Shikamara said, Naruto is a person you whant to speak with (probably because of his warm, light chakra, that even though most shinobi doesn't see, they still feel it).

    The truth is, to me Kyubi seems much closer to Naruto than it looks like, than he may even think. He have seen the whole life of this boy, how he overcame his hardships, how he grow up, he even was a little happy that he grew well (mainly some balls xD). Even their situation is similar. Naruto was hated because he had a bijuu inside. The Kyubi is hated because he was used by an evil man to kill and destroy.

    Though Aga is right, he lived so long and seen so much hatred that like Madara he dossn't belive that this world can achieve a true peace (not counting the eternal one xD).

  10. #60
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    How can evil people who know nothing but hate change for better ? If it is possible then they must first be made willing to change and maybe then they can atone. Thats the only thing there is left, atoning for each sin. I think thats how Sasuke and maybe even Kyuubi can turn to the light. Its not all black and white, good people can turn villians and so can villians turn good.

    Kyuubi may be a mass of hatred, but maybe Naruto can find some miniscule ray of hope inside that big fuzzy red fella. Hope is all there is to need. I think the climax of changes will happen after Naruto saves Sasuke.

    Who knows, Naruto might even change Tobi and the final villian will be Orochimaru or Jyuubi Im not sure enough to tell, but Tobi if he is really Madara, might have a chance to change too. That depends wheter he really wants to create peace or just rule the world. Now that I think about it, what exactly is Tobis goal anyway ? He will cast his eternal genjutsu and then what ? How exactly does he think he can manage the entire world ? What will he do with it ? If his intentions were to stop wars then he should realize by now that currently all nations are united, the leaders of every villages started to trust each other.
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