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  1. #51
    Senior Member Gulley's Avatar
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    Awesome chapter, Hanzou is a badass and that's all.
    Signature by me.





  2. #52
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    I am surprised by how many people liked the last couple chapters, I thought that this chapter was immensely disappointing. The whole samurai code of ethics just felt unnatural here and seemed very forced to me. There was no real battle and Hanzou's power was basically reduced to him being a human biological weapon. What happened to the days when experience and a vaste array of skills where what set powerful ninja appart from the rest. Just as we saw with the Kin Gin brothers I don't really see anything particularly special about Hanzou his greatest power seems to be something he inhereited from another beast.

    In my opinion there hasn't been a single good battle since this war began. The battles in the Chuunin exam were all far more interesting, intense, and believeable than the battles we have been shown in the war sofar. Even mid level characters like Kidoumaru seemed to possess far more interesting and complex skills than what we have seen from the supposed elite characters like Hanzou and the Kin Gin brothers. I was hoping that Hanzou would fight more like Orochimaru or Jiraiya, with a great array of learned skills, not just one or two abilities that have no apparent depth or complexity. Based on this battle I don't see how Hanzou could have possibly competed with Orochimaru individually let alone all three Sanin. I can only assume that they were all far weaker back then or Hanzou was simply lucky enough to catch them off guard without a way to deal with his poison.

    As I have said many times in the past, when characters primarily relied upon 1 major technique early on in the series it was tolerable because back then almost all the battles were between kids but now that they are adults that just doesn't cut it. Having a character who relies on a poison sack would have seemed threatening against kids back in the chuunin exam but now we are dealing with mostly S-Class characters. Sasori used a deadly poison too but that was just one small element of his otherwise massive repertoire based on this battle I can't think of a single S-Class ninja who would realistically be threatened by Hanzou yet we are supposed to believe that he was able to take down Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru all at once?

    To me the appeal of bringing these dead legends back to life is to show us what made them so great to begin with, give us some great battles, and provide some frighteningly challenging opponents for the protagonists. So far I haven't seen any of those criteria met. Its a shame, the chapters leading up to this war were some of the most promising in the series, yet ever since I have become less and less interested. I want to see the fights between these experienced be full of intense moments, a wide array of skills, with shocking surprises and intriguing twists. Danzou vs. Sasuke was an excellent example of what I want to see in a battle. Danzou showed us why an old ninja should be feared even against an overpowered youth like Sasuke. Jiraiya vs. Nagato was an excellent example of what a battle between two experienced S-Class ninja should be like, both using a wide variety of skills coupled with strategy. When I see the dead Kages and S-Class ninja of the past fight, I expect to see battles of epic proportions, battles that rivial the great battles I mentioned above and others like Sasuke vs. Deidara, Orochimaru vs. the 4-tails, Kimimarro vs. Gaara, etc.

    The battles that have taken place in this war have been some of the least interesting, and most anticlimatic I have seen in the series sofar. If all the battles play out like the ones we have seen so far, it is going to be a very long year.

  3. #53
    Senior Member rinnebadass's Avatar
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    why are you talking like if hanzou used all of his power\techs etc?

    he was going to use one that was supposed to kill them all. but he didnt. then he lost.. because he didnt really want to win.

    not only that, it was clear thad an edo tensei ninja simply cant be as powerfull\deadly\mean as a regular ninja. they are just dolls.

    and naruto (even the battles) isnt just about jutsu. if you cant "read" the other part, wrong manga my friend.

  4. #54
    artifice was right in that these battles haven't seemed anywhere near the levels of the excellent 1's he mentioned. Got to say though, I would include the Sakura, Chiyo vs Sasori fight but take out the Danzou vs Sasuke fight. Just didn't think that much of that fight. His real skill shown was taking Uchiha eyes and being a really tough old bastard.

    But to be fair, some1 else have mentioned that Madara has not really planned this part but it was the last minute arrival of Kabuto, which is why they could be doing so badly. It could be that this is just the prelude to the more elite battles with w. e. Madara's plan's are. In which case I do hope it will serve a very specific purpose and do so well in the long run.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    why are you talking like if hanzou used all of his power\techs etc?

    he was going to use one that was supposed to kill them all. but he didnt. then he lost.. because he didnt really want to win.
    Sure maybe Hanzou did have more techniques, I don't deny that but what isn't shown doesn't serve to make the story more interesting or entertaining to read in this case. Hanzou may have a thousand other abilities for all we know but who really cares if we never get to see any of it. Its like saying that some guy is the most powerful ever and only showing him use one move that isn't particularly unique, it doesn't add anything. At the end of the day my point is that the fight was less than spectacular, it didn't explain Hanzou's strength very well and the whole situation didn't seem to add much to the story.

    We already saw the whole self sacrifice thing, I could understand it the first time but when Kabuto chose to get serious I was hoping we wouldn't see a repeat. Again, if we are in for a lot of these strong characters simply choosing their own demise I really don't see why we have to go through the tedium of seeing it happen repeatedly. Sasori willed himself back to death, that was enough. Like I said it is not simply about having better fights it is about having intense situations, the fear of war, being faced with an overwhelming opponent. Remember the first time Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura encountered Orochimaru? That was intense, you could feel their fear, they were vulnerable, it was a dangerous situation and it showed. This war seems like more of a game than the Chuunin exam did, the only characters who have been seriously harmed have been unknown characters and even in those cases their deaths didn't seem to carry any weight. In the Chuunin exams and retrieval of Sasuke, I started to care about a lot of characters who seemed irrelvant before I had hoped to see something a long those lines in this war but sofar no luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    not only that, it was clear thad an edo tensei ninja simply cant be as powerfull\deadly\mean as a regular ninja. they are just dolls.
    That's no reason for why the battles have to be boring and virtually devoid of compelling drama. If you like the war sofar far be it from me to try and change your mind but I just think that it could be a lot better and personally I think that sofar its been lame. I will simply ask, do you honestly count the last few battles among the better ones in the series? Also, do you really see the events of the war so far as being especially relevant to the story as a whole? With the Chuunin exam for example, I felt that each battle added something important to the story and to the characters, it made the Naruto world seem more rich and the characters more relatable. The battles in this war so far have not provided that same sense of relevance or insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    and naruto (even the battles) isnt just about jutsu. if you cant "read" the other part, wrong manga my friend.
    I never said that it was all about the techniques or battles that is simply one major flaw I pointed out but I am not finding the story interesting at the moment either. As I mentioned these battles not only fail to messure up to the ones of the past they also fail to create the same complex character momements as previous ones. Take for example the battle between Naruto and Neji, as a fight that was rather subpar (though still better than the fights in this war) but what really made it compelling was that it brought out ideas, feelings, and character traits that were very relevant to the plot. Now compare that to what we saw with say the Kin Gin brothers, some may disagree but personally I found it extremely tepid in comparison. In the case of this battle between Hanzou and Mifune, I felt there whole dialog seemed forced and out of place. To me both the battle and the story that went with it seemed very weak.

  6. #56
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    This battle is mostly to show the characters' ideology. It fleshes out Mifune's character (or rather just reinforces his representation of samurai honor). It shows what made Hanzou truly badass, and why he sank to the level he was at when he allied himself with Danzou. Hanzou started to use ninja techniques, too, but Mifune prevented it with his speed/swordsmanship. Doubtlessly, he would have been far stronger, but the point of the fight was that Hanzou had become "dull" like his ideals. He was once far stronger than Mifune, but this time couldn't win.

    It's true that the Sannin were far weaker at the time they fought Hanzou. However, I'm sure he was stronger back then, too. That's going to be true of nearly every fight we see with these Edo zombies. The new generation will have grown stronger, and the Edo bodies will merely be a shell of their former glory, because that's the true "weakness" behind Edo Tensei (aside from possible betrayal). The Kin Gin brothers didn't show much power outside of their sacred weapons and Kyuubi chakra, so that was a bit of a letdown, but Darui still put on a high-level show to take them down. Kakashi has his work cut out for him with the Seven Swordsman, but Zabuza and Haku were clearly off their game when they were beaten, as well.

    Most of the epic fights in past battles were between only a few ninjas, and took many chapters to both build up and conclude. Oftentimes, they had pre-existing skillsets, or otherwise simply had enough time to demonstrate them. In these battles, we're most likely only going to see the techniques the characters were famed for in their time, get a glimpse of their personality/ideology, and then move on to the next fight. Most often, they'll be beaten by a character who's taken over their role in the modern Narutoverse, and typically this character will use their "famed" technique, as well.

    A lot of what created the tension and pressure in previous battles was the fact that there wasn't a whole army of ninajs around to defend our heroes. Right now, we're probably just going to see characters spam their big moves in conjunction with one another, or else use a lot of teamwork to wrap things up quickly. Two or three chapters is close to the longest fight we've seen, and it's just long enough to get a hurried backstory, see a few flashbacks, and get enough action panels to warrant a fight. When it's all said and done, this war's going to fill several volumes worth of pure action pages, so I'm glad that we've got a bit of talking/backstory to fill in all that fighting, or it'd be dull to read. The tension may be low, but that's not what it's really about. The true tension is simply not knowing what Madara's up to, or when he/Sasuke/Naruto/Kabuto will join the fray. That's when things will get truly epic; the rest of this war is build up for the main heroes/villains and wrap-up for all the side characters.

    Seriously, this is pretty much a farewell speech by all our favorite characters. We won't see anything really new or original from the heroes, until Naruto/Sasuke step in, but at least a few of the villains are fresh faces to keep things rolling until all the good guys from all the villages say their piece.
    Last edited by Rlinfamous; 03-26-2011 at 03:59 PM.

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