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  1. #21
    Initiate Jesca_Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinamon View Post
    called it. lol.

    anyway, there's no way a guy like allen would push rhode (or anyone else) away when she took a bullet for him, not literally, of course, but you know what i mean. he prolly feels somewhat indebted and obligated to her now. if you think about it, he has never really tried to push her away whenever she threw herself at him. note the time when he, lenalee and lavi are at the banquet table with rhode and tykki (chapter 110 of manga), she's practically sitting on his lap but he sits there unfazed, glaring at tykki. to me, that signifies his indifference to rhode and indifference, my friends, is worse than hate. at least hate denotes some emotion but indiffernce is the lack of emotion/feelings. even while that is going on, who does allen think about? he thinks about lenalee, telling her to trust him, as he rushes tykki.

    so, rhode took a shot for him and fell into his lap again. he's not going to toss her aside; that is not in his character to do so. during the crazy escape, tim is holding both of them in his mouth like guppies, not much allen can do about that either. so, i have yet to be convinced that anything between allen and rhode is being minutely implied. it's still one-sided as usual, all rhode. this isn't to say that i'd blame allen if he went over to the rhode camp as LENALEE HAS DONE ABSOLUTELY JACK-SQUAT FOR HIM THIS WHOLE DAMN TIME. i'm a little upset by this, as you can tell.
    I'm starting to get the feeling that we read different 203-204th chapters.

    First, when Road "threw herself at him" she was yet to "take a bullet for him". So Allen had nothing to feel obliged for and still, he let Road hug him, he even closed his eyes. Do you usually close your eyes and let relief, moreover, happiness spread all over your face when someone you don't like hugs you? Well, I don't.



    This is DEFINITELY not an expression of indifference.

    Also, during the escape Allen held Road, pulling her into Tim's mouth and such. Road was unconscious, he could have just left her to Tykki or something but even after they landed (ch. 204, page 26) Allen held her in his arms.

    Um, yeah, one more thing. You state that Allen has never really pushed Road away but that's not quite true. When Road kissed him, he DID try to push her away. Also, Allen looked absolutely shocked then. And now? He just leans into the hug, closes his eyes~ No shocked expression, no mark of "indifference" on his face. I guess that's how blossoming love is. :>

  2. #22

    allen and rhode? bwahahahahahaha!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesca_Vicious View Post
    I'm starting to get the feeling that we read different 203-204th chapters.

    First, when Road "threw herself at him" she was yet to "take a bullet for him". So Allen had nothing to feel obliged for and still, he let Road hug him, he even closed his eyes. Do you usually close your eyes and let relief, moreover, happiness spread all over your face when someone you don't like hugs you? Well, I don't.



    This is DEFINITELY not an expression of indifference.

    Also, during the escape Allen held Road, pulling her into Tim's mouth and such. Road was unconscious, he could have just left her to Tykki or something but even after they landed (ch. 204, page 26) Allen held her in his arms.

    Um, yeah, one more thing. You state that Allen has never really pushed Road away but that's not quite true. When Road kissed him, he DID try to push her away. Also, Allen looked absolutely shocked then. And now? He just leans into the hug, closes his eyes~ No shocked expression, no mark of "indifference" on his face. I guess that's how blossoming love is. :>
    Maybe we DID read different manga chapters lol. I'll address your points one by one....

    1.) whenever rhode throws herself at allen, which she does, because he never goes to her on his own volition, regardless of whether it's before or after she's taken a bullet for him, he does nothing. that is my point. he neither pulls her or pushes her because, he has no idea what to do. usually he's just shocked. and that is my point of his being indifferent, he doesn't care either way and it's no different in this chapter. this is always how he's reacted to rhode. non-reaction.

    2.) the expression on allen's face on the panels you posted might be relief (and not at seeing rhode) but it is NOT one of happiness. i think you're projecting a little there and wanting to see something that's not there. tyki himself just noted that allen is in shock. he may not know why but the readers do. allen just saw an image of what happened to his master in the moments of his death (question mark, since we don't have real confirmation he's actually dead). this threw allen into a state of turmoil and great shock. when rhode throws herself at him, he is still in shock and the most her actions did was pull him out of the vision in his mind. he closes his eyes from the pure stress of it all, his heart still palpitating. the expression he has on his face has nothing to do with rhode and everything to do with what he just experienced of seeing his master's "final moments."

    3.) sorry, i'm afraid you're wrong on the account of allen trying to push rhode away after she kisses him. he does not. you might want to go back and look at the manga again closely. he just stands there, in shock, doing nothing. it's lero who actually pushes her off. so my observation that he has never pushed her away still stands. this is also true in the anime.

    4.) during the escape, allen does not pull rhode into tim's mouth with him. tim gathered both of them as a unit into his maw. this is a finer detail but still important. rhode was already in allen's lap, tim swooped both of them up.

    5.) i think it's funny that you see him "leaning" into rhode's hug. he closes his eyes and lowers his head (afterall, he was just in extreme shock). there is no indication because the panel only shows their heads, that he's "leaning" but i give you credit for trying. his facial expression here is not indifferent, of course. again, he's just come out of a crazy vision. but it also has nothing to do with rhode. what is indifferent, as usual and has always been, is his reaction to her. he does nothing to return it.

    of course allen is not going to just dump her body on the floor just after she's just taken a blow for him. he's not that kind of guy. the dude even wanted to save tyki after their climactic duel inside the ark because he saw that there was some humanity in him. but you have to really think. do you think he would fall in love with someone who tried to do such dastardly things to his close friends? rhode did, afterall, try to kill lavi. and, regardless of how evil the black order as an organization and the vatican are coming off, lavi, lenalee, komui, etc ARE his friends.

    i foresee a twist in the motivations of the noah family. afterall, it would be boring if they were evil just for the sake of being evil. i am sure there is more to them than that and it will be interesting to see them being more fleshed out and seeing their side of the story. do you think rhode would hesitate to have allen killed if (and when) the earl orders it? no, she won't. because as much as she likes allen, she is loyal to her family. when tyki was fighting allen in the ark, she didn't do a thing to help allen because she knows what is supposed to happen in the grande scheme of things. she may not like it but eventually she has to kill allen or let him be killed. her having a phat crush on him adds a layer to her personality but that's about it.

    the furthest stretch of the imagination might lead to rhode being in love with neah and this is how she's expressing it since allen is the physical manifestation of him. and who knows, maybe neah will later reciprocate or maybe he had in his previous incarnation. that would be interesting to see.

    allen is holding onto rhode because that is all he can do. his character would not have him just throw her at tyki or dump her on the ground. i don't think that is the allen you or i know. she's unconscious after taking a blow for him and she was thrown back into him. what do you expect him to do? just drop her? especially in the crazy confusion of what's going on? no. i would have been surprised and disappointed in him if hoshino had him do that. but there's no convincing evidence that allen is falling for rhode. but i understand that you want to see that come to fruition. it just hasn't happened. i'm not saying it won't. it just hasn't. and honestly, i don't think it will. it's wishful thinking on folks' part). if for some odd reason hoshino is going that direction, i hope she spends as much time cultivating that relationship as she did growing allen and lenalee's.

  3. #23
    Initiate Jesca_Vicious's Avatar
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    3, yeah, I might want to go back and read the chapter again then~
    4, He does. That's your turn to read a chapter again because he certainly does. If you look closely, you can see his arms under her waist (actually he's hugging her waist to be sure she won't fall).
    5, Again. No matter how terrible shock you are just in, would you let someone you don't like to be around hug you like that? Would you react like that? Whatever your answer's going to be, I guess it'd be a no in real life. Who the hell wants a hug from someone he/she despises?

    I think you can see my point here, another thing is that you don't WANT to see it. You just keep on saying 'Oh, Allen and Lenalee this, Allen and Lenalee that...". FYI, that won't ever happen. Why? Because there's absolutely nothing but friendship between those two so I guess I'm not the (only) one "projecting a little there".

    You know maybe you are right and there's no way that Allen and Road could get closer to each other but I feel that your POW is strictly based on "Allen&Lenalee" grounds. Maybe you should try to relax a bit there and take into consideration that Allen and the Exorcist girl will not get together anytime soon...

    Otherwise, If It's about Neah, I can see what you mean. He might be the reason Road is into Allen, yeah, that would make sense. But does the same go for Allen? Is it really the 14th who likes Road? That wouldn't be impossible, you know. However, it doesn't explain his behavior in the last two chapters because (due to the stuff that Apocryphos did to him) his mind was clear, no 14th there. And yes, you might say that he did those things because he's such a fricking sweetheart but... In my opinion, It'd be wiser to just wait for the next few chapters to reveal what's going on.

    Hoshino won't let us down, I'm pretty positive about that.
    Last edited by Jesca_Vicious; 03-06-2011 at 07:46 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesca_Vicious View Post
    3, yeah, I might want to go back and read the chapter again then~
    4, He does. That's your turn to read a chapter again because he certainly does. If you look closely, you can see his arms under her waist (actually he's hugging her waist to be sure she won't fall).
    5, Again. No matter how terrible shock you are just in, would you let someone you don't like to be around hug you like that? Would you react like that? Whatever your answer's going to be, I guess it'd be a no in real life. Who the hell wants a hug from someone he/she despises?

    I think you can see my point here, another thing is that you don't WANT to see it. You just keep on saying 'Oh, Allen and Lenalee this, Allen and Lenalee that...". FYI, that won't ever happen. Why? Because there's absolutely nothing but friendship between those two so I guess I'm not the (only) one "projecting a little there".

    You know maybe you are right and there's no way that Allen and Road could get closer to each other but I feel that your POW is strictly based on "Allen&Lenalee" grounds. Maybe you should try to relax a bit there and take into consideration that Allen and the Exorcist girl will not get together anytime soon...

    Otherwise, If It's about Neah, I can see what you mean. He might be the reason Road is into Allen, yeah, that would make sense. But does the same go for Allen? Is it really the 14th who likes Road? That wouldn't be impossible, you know. However, it doesn't explain his behavior in the last two chapters because (due to the stuff that Apocryphos did to him) his mind was clear, no 14th there. And yes, you might say that he did those things because he's such a fricking sweetheart but... In my opinion, It'd be wiser to just wait for the next few chapters to reveal what's going on.

    Hoshino won't let us down, I'm pretty positive about that.
    point 4 - there is NO indication that allen pulled her (or himself) into tim's mouth. none. per your request i just read it three times over. one minute he's with rhode in the cell, the next you see them in tim's maw. of course he's holding onto her so she won't fall. again, he's not ruthless enough to toss her aside. however, there is no panel in the manga or my imagination that can conjure up an image of allen depositing himself and rhode into tim. he was clueless as to what to do there and completely dumbfounded most of the time. tim, on the other hand, knew exactly what to do and when he was finally released by link, he had been raring to go with all the pent up energy; he grabbed them both and flew out. that much is obvious. allen didn't really do much but stand there being confused as hell.

    point 5 - i think i've proven that even when allen is NOT in shock (even though 90% he is when rhode's around i.e. she has just kissed him or even during their firsts meeting, she hugs him while he's incredulous because she's a human not an akuma yet doing awful things) he just let's rhode do whatever. when you're in shock, you're not in your right mind. that is one of the definitions of being in shock. i never said allen despises rhode. as a matter of fact, my point has been that he doesn't hate her. on the contrary, he is indifferent to her. and when you're totally indifferent (i.e. you don't care), you do nothing. case in point.

    you say i'm projecting allen and lenalee but i think you know that's a fallacy. they are actually canon as hoshino has spent the first 150+ chapters building them up (and approving the official artbook for fans in which he is linked to her). i can say "allen and lenalee this and allen and lenalee that" because there are actual citations to make whereas for allen and rhode there are none. i don't need to be projecting something that's actually there. and though they have yet to consummate their relationship in any physical way, i don't think even you can deny their relationship. you say i dont WANT to see allen and rhode? again, not true. i WANT to see it so that this whole discussion can tabled for good. nothing would make me happier than to see allen happy and if it's with rhode, so be it. so whenever allenXrhode 'shippers point something out, i look at it right away, hoping to see what they see...then at least there's some kind of confirmation by hoshino. but, disappointingly, there never is one, no matter how hard i look. and i have to sit here and point it out with logic.

    of course allen and lenalee will not "get-together" any time soon. that would completely ruin the tension she's built up in the story. hoshino is purposefully keeping them at arms distance for a reason; putting a rift between allen and the other exorcists because of this whole "14th" plot device. of course tyki and rhode have to try and get allen over with them....that is what the earl wants more than anything (next to the "heart"). thankfully things are seemingly moving along at this point. for a while, the manga seemed to be just plodding while hoshino figured out what to do next (which, btw, i think she's doing on a day to day basis...there's some real coherency and cohesion issues these days). allen has not been exorcised or cleared of the 14th in these couple of chapters. he is still in the same state as he has always been...the apocrypha certainly TRIED to join with him so as to untether the two entities but he failed due to the noah's intervention. the only effect the apocrypha had on allen was inadvertently showing him the vision of marian cross. the 14th is still in allen and allen is still tied to the 14th. rhode has always inexplicably been attracted to "allen" long before he even knew the 14th was within him so allen's behavior these last couple of chapters isn't any different than any time previous.

    btw, if you're looking for the blossoming of love, look no further. this is what it looks like. afterall, during this scene in the anime, the music that is being played is called "awakening of love" :-)


    [IMG][/IMG]

    am eagerly awaiting to see how it all plays out, like you said. but i have a feeling this is going to be stretched out for a LOOOONG time :-/

    here's another one just for kicks. enjoy!


    [IMG][/IMG]

    oh and i'm sorry, i guess i WAS wrong about allen being totally indifferent every time rhode threw herself at him. i did find this one time he did react to her. yeah, this totally looks like love...

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Sinamon; 03-07-2011 at 04:01 AM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Even though the Black order Higher ups are showing themselves to be ruthless and morally lacking, I am not sure that the Noah are really any better since they continue to side with the Earl whose aim is the destruction of humanity.

    Moral ambiguity is becoming a more common theme with Mangas lately, however the mass murder and heartless tactics of the earl are still far worse than the Black Order in my eyes.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Christi View Post
    Love that cosplayer ^^ is one of the best I ever saw!

    Your points about Road and Allen are very interesting guys. I actually saw the "closing eyes" like a moment for Allen to breath and trying to keep it together after the shock of Cross' hypothetical death. I think he'd have closed his eyes with anyone else in the place of Road lol maybe not the Earl XD
    this is what i thought as well, christi. that he was closing his eyes because he was dealing with the vision he just had. it doesn't see to have anything to do with rhode specifically. it could have been komui and i think he still would have behaved the same . but you're right, it may have been different if it was the earl holding him LOL!

  7. #27
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    wow, some great posting by the new posters. keep it up guys.

    Chapter was quite good.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member StrawberryLulzJam's Avatar
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    Interesting points you guys bring up about Allen x Road pairings. I think it's true he's indifferent and would do the same with other people, but Road is the ONLY one supporting him right now. There is no 'someone else' .You guys can't forget that Allen is extremely confused right now. Yes the others may be his freinds, but did they do a single thing to try and help him out over the last few chapters?? All they did was sit and sulk and for someone who's so mentally/emotionally unstable it wouldn't take too much for him to hold a grudge or at least not be able to act upon his emotions towards them. So I say if he's gonna be indifferent right now, its to everyone, not just Road.

    I personally do not favour AllenxLenalee at all. I've grown to actually dislike her lately, not sure why.

    I re-watched episode 56 today, just because i'm obsessed with Allen and Tykki, and noticed some of that indifference in Allen there too when he was up against Tykki, and even later at the Asian Branch. It's almost part of his character to just waddle around expressionless, and show some short moments of dedication/anger, and those usually only motivated by Cross Marian. Correct me if I'm wrong. =)
    And just to stress the fact that his freinds are not all that matters, remember his thought process when trying to get his innocence to re-activate.

    I just realized that was a very messy, quick rant, but I hope my point came across the right way. =P
    I see the start of an addiction! Oh boy, this is gonna be a good one.

  9. #29
    Senior Member StrawberryLulzJam's Avatar
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    Okay I did some more research, its not indifference, it's more emotional exhaustion. I think that term fits better
    I see the start of an addiction! Oh boy, this is gonna be a good one.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryLulzJam View Post
    Interesting points you guys bring up about Allen x Road pairings. I think it's true he's indifferent and would do the same with other people, but Road is the ONLY one supporting him right now. There is no 'someone else' .You guys can't forget that Allen is extremely confused right now. Yes the others may be his freinds, but did they do a single thing to try and help him out over the last few chapters?? All they did was sit and sulk and for someone who's so mentally/emotionally unstable it wouldn't take too much for him to hold a grudge or at least not be able to act upon his emotions towards them. So I say if he's gonna be indifferent right now, its to everyone, not just Road.

    I personally do not favour AllenxLenalee at all. I've grown to actually dislike her lately, not sure why.

    I re-watched episode 56 today, just because i'm obsessed with Allen and Tykki, and noticed some of that indifference in Allen there too when he was up against Tykki, and even later at the Asian Branch. It's almost part of his character to just waddle around expressionless, and show some short moments of dedication/anger, and those usually only motivated by Cross Marian. Correct me if I'm wrong. =)
    And just to stress the fact that his freinds are not all that matters, remember his thought process when trying to get his innocence to re-activate.

    I just realized that was a very messy, quick rant, but I hope my point came across the right way. =P
    i dont see allen holding a grudge against anyone, much less those whom he may still consider his comrades. i agree with you on teh point that the exorcists, including lenalee, have done little to nothing to help allen. whether it's because they feel pinned down by the thumb of the vatican or just powerless in general, hoshino has chosen for them to sit on their laurels and do nothing, IMO it's not like them at all but for whatever reason, hoshino sees therm in that light for now.

    back to the grudge thing. he can barely begrudge his enemies so i dont think he's going to hold anything against the ones he used to fight along side with for so long. considering his biggest action this chapter was in trying to avenge his master who he believes was killed by the apocrypha standing before him. it shows he still cares for his comrades. i think this is getting setup as an "allen may now be pitted up against his comrades and more conflicting emotions will ensue" but i don't think he'd turn on them. indeed, he is in a very vulnerable state right now and those who are "helping him" are the noahs though i don't see their actions as anything laudable. they are carrying out the will of the earl and their motivations are yet to be clearly seen. i will say this: i'm glad someone broke him the hell out of there. but everything is going according to the earl's plan. he laid out his goal in Chapter 189 page 24: he will make it so that allen abandons the order on his own and celebrate his expulsion. well, it worked.
    Last edited by Sinamon; 03-07-2011 at 03:48 AM.

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