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  1. #31
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    I find the Foxy arc completly pointless. If I wanted filler I'd be an anime fan.
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off


  2. #32
    The Heropon! Sirxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    That isn't what I was talking about. My issue is with the final battle and the final battle alone. Luffy shouldn't have won that, period.
    I've got to disagree with you there. Well, I don't have to, but it's a slow day at work, so...

    I only saw the anime version of the fight, and although I'm sure it included filler, I'm working off of the assumption that it captured all of the main points from the manga version. From these, three things are apparent:
    --Gear 1 (Normal) Luffy was slower and weaker than Lucci. Luffy only survived due to Lucci underestimating him.
    --Gear 2 Luffy was as strong and as fast as Lucci. Perhaps maybe a smidge stronger.
    --Gear 3 Luffy was FAR stronger than Lucci, but Lucci was FAR faster. He used this speed to beat Gear 3.

    When Franky made it through the door, Lucci himself admitted that he was careless in fighting Gear 1 Luffy. By the time he got serious, Luffy was in Gear 2 and on par with him. Yes Lucci trained for 20 years and what not, but the level of strength he had attained was not more than Gear 3 Luffy's punch could produce, and it showed. He had to best Gear 3 with tactics and speed.

    The second time that Luffy went Gear 2, it was taking its toll--Lucci could compete on that level through his training and Roukishiki (sp?) mastery; Luffy could only do it because of his devil fruit. But hey, everyone fights with their devil fruit abilities, why is it such an outrage when Luffy does so as well. Once he started losing that edge, he ate several helpings of Lucci's Gentle Fistish attack.

    I will agree: after the second one, Luffy was, for all intents and purposes, defeated. Usopp's pep talk was the only thing that ignited his own willpower/determination. As the manga constantly tells us, his willpower is insanely strong, so much so that he draws people subconciously to his cause (as stated by Mihawk and proven during Impel Down + War at Marineford). So why is it so hard to believe that it allowed him to fully tap into his own remaining strength?

    I also believe that Luffy was again defeated after Lucci's last Gentle Fistlike attack, and was saved only by that same willpower. He had just vowed that he wouldn't go down again until Lucci was beaten--the only way that Lucci could've changed that was to outright kill him, but, sorry, his attack wasn't strong enough to do that. His reward was Jet Gatling burns over 98% of his body.

    Knowing all that we do about Luffy's character and seeing the random Haki outbursts that he has later on, why do people have such a hard time believing that he won the fight? To me, saying that Luffy shouldn't have beaten Lucci is like saying Naruto should not have been able to fight on par with a Sannin: Both are true.

    But just like Naruto's rage allowed him to tap until four tails of his power (which then allowed the improbable: an even fight with Orochimaru), Luffy's determination allowed him to exhaust what remained of his strength (which then allowed the improbable: he overwhelmed Lucci, a foe whom he had, to that point, only been evenly matched with).
    Last edited by Sirxxx; 02-11-2011 at 09:07 PM.

  3. #33
    The Emperor of Everything dct21's Avatar
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    ^ amazingly said amen brotha!

  4. #34
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    ^
    ^
    Jeez, you just nailed all the possible arguements on that issue in one comment. Are you a lawyer or something? Just... wow.
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off


  5. #35
    Senior Member cross777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirxxx View Post
    I've got to disagree with you there. Well, I don't have to, but it's a slow day at work, so...

    I only saw the anime version of the fight, and although I'm sure it included filler, I'm working off of the assumption that it captured all of the main points from the manga version. From these, three things are apparent:
    --Gear 1 (Normal) Luffy was slower and weaker than Lucci. Luffy only survived due to Lucci underestimating him.
    --Gear 2 Luffy was as strong and as fast as Lucci. Perhaps maybe a smidge stronger.
    --Gear 3 Luffy was FAR stronger than Lucci, but Lucci was FAR faster. He used this speed to beat Gear 3.

    When Franky made it through the door, Lucci himself admitted that he was careless in fighting Gear 1 Luffy. By the time he got serious, Luffy was in Gear 2 and on par with him. Yes Lucci trained for 20 years and what not, but the level of strength he had attained was not more than Gear 3 Luffy's punch could produce, and it showed. He had to best Gear 3 with tactics and speed.

    The second time that Luffy went Gear 2, it was taking its toll--Lucci could compete on that level through his training and Roukishiki (sp?) mastery; Luffy could only do it because of his devil fruit. But hey, everyone fights with their devil fruit abilities, why is it such an outrage when Luffy does so as well. Once he started losing that edge, he ate several helpings of Lucci's Gentle Fistish attack.

    I will agree: after the second one, Luffy was, for all intents and purposes, defeated. Usopp's pep talk was the only thing that ignited his own willpower/determination. As the manga constantly tells us, his willpower is insanely strong, so much so that he draws people subconciously to his cause (as stated by Mihawk and proven during Impel Down + War at Marineford). So why is it so hard to believe that it allowed him to fully tap into his own remaining strength?

    I also believe that Luffy was again defeated after Lucci's last Gentle Fistlike attack, and was saved only by that same willpower. He had just vowed that he wouldn't go down again until Lucci was beaten--the only way that Lucci could've changed that was to outright kill him, but, sorry, his attack wasn't strong enough to do that. His reward was Jet Gatling burns over 98% of his body.

    Knowing all that we do about Luffy's character and seeing the random Haki outbursts that he has later on, why do people have such a hard time believing that he won the fight? To me, saying that Luffy shouldn't have beaten Lucci is like saying Naruto should not have been able to fight on par with a Sannin: Both are true.

    But just like Naruto's rage allowed him to tap until four tails of his power (which then allowed the improbable: an even fight with Orochimaru), Luffy's determination allowed him to exhaust what remained of his strength (which then allowed the improbable: he overwhelmed Lucci, a foe whom he had, to that point, only been evenly matched with).
    wow i was not really going to post here because i personally do not like the thread but this was a great argument and very well put together.

    i would also like to add that i agree i mean really lucci was luffy's first legit win against a major bad A** enemy on the grand line. he lucked out when he beat croc and enel. but with this he dug down deep and won. when two people are as evenly matched as luffy and lucci were, the one who wants it more wins and luffy just wanted it more. so yeah i agree and i also do not see why people say he should not have won he just very simply wanted it more and in by book you can not take anything away from luffy when it comes to that fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Lol, I bet you argue too much with cross. It's not really healthy you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Death View Post
    Hey stick to the topic, quit asking nonsense question about other series or if cross777 is thunder luffy which by the way have different IP addresses.... Next person that goes off topic will be infracted...
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  6. #36
    Senior Member FenixMarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    That isn't what I was talking about. My issue is with the final battle and the final battle alone. Luffy shouldn't have won that, period.
    oooooh Alright I see what you mean I think, right after the Usopp pep talk? Like when Luffy was already supposedly defeated coughing out a pool of blood barely able to breath on the floor and what not. Than after that talk he mustered up all that to beat Lucci with 1 final attack while Lucci seeming in better shape than him. I can see why you see it as BS,where the hell did Luffy get all the strength from at the end. Well the fight already had auto plot armor behind it, because of the whole Robin story. I don't know I still enjoyed the cp9 arc Luffy vs Lucci didn't bother me as much as the Davy Back Fight arc/fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    I actually thought that was the reason for him putting on the glove. So his hand wouldn't be directly touching the water.
    If his glove cover his entire arm up to his sleeve I be with you on that. Than again he's a fishman and not like a portion of your body being in water can be any danger. Still strongly believe it's because of his devil fruit ability. Oda likes to draw his readers to certain things I do believe he doesn't like to waste his panels besides just story related or comedy. He said something similar to this in one of his Q & A's. That page with with Van shaking Hodi's hand with the 3 small panels reminds me of the whole Sabo Flash Back arc. The panels showing that Sabo's alive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    I think it was stated that seastone cuffs were made with just enough seastone to take away a DF user's abilities but still leave them with enough energy to walk. I think that was mentioned in the CP9 arc actually. But Oda has a loophole because he can just say "Seastone =/= The Sea" and we would just have to accept that.
    Actually IRRC think your right about that too, but regardless so far it's left as a loophole and still tricky at times. Not to mention this being a melo drama comedy adventure story. Some times you can't tell whether to take it as serious information/scene or just a gag because Oda syncs them both a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ammada™ View Post
    Agreed, we all remember that during luffy was fighting Arlong, he felt down into the see and his ligs were stuck and they tried to rescue him and they surfaced his head
    by stretching his neck. So basically, DF users in the water can't do anything but their powers still work.
    Also when Luffy regain consciousness he was himself (while his head was above the water) knew he couldn't do anything but just wait. 90% of body covered in water. We got a recent example of him using his new attack under water Elephant Gun his entire right arm in gear 3 was underwater. He did say it gave him some trouble though so I'm guessing it slowed him a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by cross777 View Post
    wow i was not really going to post here because i personally do not like the thread but this was a great argument and very well put together.

    i would also like to add that i agree i mean really lucci was luffy's first legit win against a major bad A** enemy on the grand line. he lucked out when he beat croc and enel. but with this he dug down deep and won. when two people are as evenly matched as luffy and lucci were, the one who wants it more wins and luffy just wanted it more. so yeah i agree and i also do not see why people say he should not have won he just very simply wanted it more and in by book you can not take anything away from luffy when it comes to that fight.
    ^ You wouldn't know what's a great argument if it hit you in the face.

    Lol at Luffy and Lucci being evenly matched. Luffy barely held himself off against Lucci first time over using his gear technique and Lucci was still gunning him down. You couldn't even realize the so obvious conclusion towards haki don't even bother with the fights. Especially Luffy vs Lucci.

  7. #37
    7 Months Left ammada™'s Avatar
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    Here another when Luffy extended his hand into Sky sea to pick up Usoop.
    http://www.mangareader.net/103-2344-...apter-237.html

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggeroff View Post
    ^
    ^
    Jeez, you just nailed all the possible arguements on that issue in one comment. Are you a lawyer or something? Just... wow.
    +2 , wow!

  9. #39
    The Emperor of Everything dct21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cross777 View Post
    wow i was not really going to post here because i personally do not like the thread but this was a great argument and very well put together.

    i would also like to add that i agree i mean really lucci was luffy's first legit win against a major bad A** enemy on the grand line. he lucked out when he beat croc and enel. but with this he dug down deep and won. when two people are as evenly matched as luffy and lucci were, the one who wants it more wins and luffy just wanted it more. so yeah i agree and i also do not see why people say he should not have won he just very simply wanted it more and in by book you can not take anything away from luffy when it comes to that fight.
    How the heck was luffy lucky agaisn't enel he outright kicked his ass no luck straight skill.

    and look closely at the crocodile fight luffy got distracted by what croc was saying and was caught of guard the 1st, despite they're experience difference luffy was still a better fighter

  10. #40
    Senior Member cross777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dct21 View Post
    How the heck was luffy lucky agaisn't enel he outright kicked his ass no luck straight skill.

    and look closely at the crocodile fight luffy got distracted by what croc was saying and was caught of guard the 1st, despite they're experience difference luffy was still a better fighter
    luffy fond out crocs weakness by a complete and total fluke and if it was not for that luffy would have never been able to touch him. sure once luffy found out his weakness luffy took him down but if luffy had not been lucky enough to figure that out he would be toast.

    and with enel, luffy was totally out classed in terms of pure power but look luffy is the only human on skypia that enels powers have no effect on. that is total luck. enel was on a whole different level when it came to pure power and luffy would have been pawned just like zoro was if he had not been made of rubber.

    accidentally finding some ones weakness and not being effected by one of the most powerful characters in the whole manga is not skill its luck.

    in other words the plot plot fruit saved luffy several times but with lucci he just gutted it out he had no help from lady luck at all basically it was gut check time and luffy beat some A**. with corc and enel he beat some a** sure but he did so with some help from lady luck. they ladies do love luffy you know. LOL
    Last edited by cross777; 02-14-2011 at 02:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Lol, I bet you argue too much with cross. It's not really healthy you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Death View Post
    Hey stick to the topic, quit asking nonsense question about other series or if cross777 is thunder luffy which by the way have different IP addresses.... Next person that goes off topic will be infracted...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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