New Strongest Man Title

[ChaosMaster]

Ok so the WG would had won the fight either way, from what I recall Jozu/Marco/Vista kept getting beat by the Admirals, so they were not "fighting on par" - more like they were strong enough not to be instakilled. And the BlackBeard pirates where not there to fight the WG, they came for WB's DF (which made them more enemies to WB Pirates then WG) and to announce that BlackBeard would be the next Pirate King.

I was saying the WG would have lost had they continued against Shanks as well.

Jozu and Marco wouldn’t have gotten damaged that easily if not for WB’s illness. Had there been no distraction, they would have still been at full health by the end of that war, and it most likely wouldn’t have gone as smoothly as it did for the WG. I’m not sure what you mean by “fighting on par” if being about to stand up to and Admiral and exchange attacks isn’t it. Do you mean to say Aokiji and Akainu can’t fight on par with each other because Aokiji lost to Akainu?

Do note that BlackBeard had showed no signs of even wanting to retreat before Shanks showed up. Up till then, he and his crew were doing battle against Sengoku and Garp. In fact it seemed as though he wanted to take them out to further boost his fame and position in the world. While WB’s DF was his main goal, he achieved that long before Shanks arrived, and had ample time to retreat if he wished to.

Also the Pirates were STILL trapped in the box Sengoku put them in, even if they were willing to fight (were as before Aces death they were in full retreat) they would had kept being blown apart by the cannons specially since they had that fissure caused by WB when he had them run.

Errr, I think you’re confused here. The Pirates had escaped the embardment quite a while ago. Remember how Luffy was thrown over it by Jimbei’s water, to land in front of the 3 admirals, while the WB pirates excaped soon after with the aid of Oz Jr? there was nothing trapping them, especially since WB had taken out the tidal waves surrounding the sides.

Pre-timeskip Luffy would been killed by Caribou in a 1v1, Caribou would be weaker physically but he's a logia.. and for someone who can't use haki that pretty much seals the deal.

My point exactly.

There's a reason Rayleigh isn't considered the "worlds greatest swordsmen" ... its because at least in the OP world, while people consider him a legend, there's a consensus that Mihawk stands above all other swordsmen, given that he played with Vista and came out without a mark I think thats a good marker.. after all Vista was the strongest swordsmen in the WB pirates.

Swordsmen isn’t the be all and ends all of it. Mihawk’s sword techniques are the best of the best, no doubt, but doesn’t mean he can’t be parried and deflected. Much like how Kizaru is most likely the worlds fastest man. Didn’t mean swat against Rayleigh, or Marco for that matter. Is Rayleigh considered a swordsmen? Not really, I can see him fighting bar handed. Is Brooke considered a Swordsmen? I doubt it, I mean it’s not his only means of fighting (using music and such). Sanji has been shown to be skilled with knives, and most likely able to use Swords to a fairly high degree, no way his going to be considered a swordsmen. Using that swordsmen title to compare him to a Dark King is like comparing Apples to Oranges, doesn’t really work.

I agree that WB could had deflected the slash, but given that he allowed half his head blown off, stabbed by Squardo, plus took dozens of shots/slashes from fodder marines you can say he didn't deflect anything worth deflecting..

He deflected the Magma fragment that came flying towards his ship after Akainu melted that iceberg. He deflected Akainu’s magma hound technique and many others, thus Akainu complained about how he destroyed the island with every move he made. Squardo, he let his guard down. Fodder marines, his illness had him struggling to move. Half his face, well all he cared about was killing Akainu, which he failed but he did pawn him. Mihawks sword slash, he clearly saw it coming, and he wasn’t hampered down by anything. There’s no reason for him not to be able to deflected it.

I agree with the first part, but even after he did go after Akainu the Admiral came out relatively ok, also I doubt at that time he could had used CoC Haki, it seems using that power takes a lot out of you, for example Rayleigh could only use it 1 time at the auction house, Luffy only used it once at Fishman Island.

Akainu was not really ok. He was bleeding everywhere, including internally. But the guy’s the type to keep going even with broken ribs and such, much like Luffy.

As for CoC, I disagree with you. Rayleigh could use it more than once. If you read MS original translation, it said that he couldn’t use it again. But if you read the corrected one, it says something like “I won’t be using that power again. I can’t have the marines catching on to who I am.” Meaning he could use it, but he didn’t want to. Also don’t forget that he had already used it once to save Cami from that female Tenryubito. So he can use it consecutively. Luffy used CoC twice on Fishman Island, thrice if you count the time he stopped that bear sea beast. He just didn’t use it consecutively.

So given that WB was already so beat up/old/sick I doubt he could had used it, if he could then why not do it at the start, like how Luffy knocked out 50k Fishman, WB should had been able to knock out most marines (if he could use his CoC).

Luffy was at close range with his opponents, with WB, they were quite far. Not to mention most of the Marines there would have been of fairly decent rank, unlike the weak fodder around Luffy. That and he wanted to use his Tidal Wave to take them out, only to be stopped and attacked by Aokiji. By then, his men were on the battlefield as well, no point knocking out your allies.

[arisart]

In a straight fight WB pirates would have been beaten eventually by the WG. WB knew they had no chance. He just wanted to save Ace and sacrifice himself so the rest can escape. That was his only plan. If it was a prime WB then they might have a shot.

Sengoku stopped the war when Shanks arrive because A, the marines is already a bit depleted fighting a Yonkou army. It wouldn't be wise to get in a fight with another one specially when the opposing party doesn't want to if they can help it. B, Shanks showing up in the war is not part of Sengoku's plan. And he doesn't like it when things is not getting to his plan. C, there's no profit to be gain in fighting Shanks crew so why would they provoke the man? D, there's a high possibility that they would lose.

Blackbeard would have retreated eventually whether Shanks arrived or not. I mean BB even retreated when Akainu arrived at the island where BB is helding Bonney. It just shows that he's not ready to take center stage. In the war, he just got drown in his new found ability that he forgot that even with two df in his hand there's still some people out there who would hand his ass to him. Shanks arrival snapped him back to reality and reminded him of that. They got no respect for Sengoku though.

Mihawk IS the greatest swordsman in the world. Take note, SWORDSMAN. His swordsmanship is better than Rayleigh or (or anyone) but doesn't necessarily mean the better overall fighter. After all Rayleigh seems to be a well rounded fighter unlike Mihawk who seems to be a pure sword fighter. Take Mihawk's swords and his strength drops down bigger than Rayleigh losing his sword.

Imo, Mihawk is a tad stronger than any Admiral so he's in the running for the strongest man title although of course it won't happen. If Luffy is to become the PK then Zoro is to become the DK. And if a past his prime DK can still be on par with an Admiral then he should defeat one in his prime. If Zoro is to be at that level then his rival must be on that level as well so Mihawk should be able to beat an Admiral as well.

Shanks or Mihawk? Tough call. I'd say they are still pretty much even. Mihawk would never fight Shanks though coz he's not gaining anything on it. If he lose, well he lost. If he wins his pride would tell him that he only won because Shanks only have an arm even though his swordsmanship is still beastly.

Could have WB blocked Mihawks attack? Of course he can, it's not even a question. Whether his illness would get in the way or not is the real problem. Marco just said that even if it's a friend, WB can't be blindsided. That's just how amazing his CoO is. So he didn't let his guard down when Squardo stabbed him nor doesn't care if his face gets torn off by Akainu. His CoO let's him know that an attack was coming. His body however due to illness just cannot react fast enough to avoid them.

As for WB's haki. Well like I said in a different thread, people have different affinity to each type of haki and WB's seems to be at home with CoO rather than CoA or CoC. This may explain why WB didn't use CoC when Ace was gonna get executed. His haki burst may not reach Ace unlike Luffy which iirc was closer to the platform.

[ChaosMaster]

^Agreed. Pretty much everything I've been saying.

One thing though, regarding your last statement.

As for WB's haki. Well like I said in a different thread, people have different affinity to each type of haki and WB's seems to be at home with CoO rather than CoA or CoC. This may explain why WB didn't use CoC when Ace was gonna get executed. His haki burst may not reach Ace unlike Luffy which iirc was closer to the platform.

WB did try to use CoC when Ace was gonna get chopped. But his illness got in the way. If you go back to that chapter, you'll find something like "You think I'll let you", then "Why now of all times" with him clenching his heart.

[cross777]

good catch.

[sophiewilcoxx]

just a thought...
Dragon is might be the most dangerous man on the world
Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world
Ace is a contender for the title but he's not the type to hold a title (that kind of title) to his name except "One of the Four Emperors"
I hate to admit it but it might be Akainu, he won against Aokiji and became new fleet admiral (i think), he's DF can burn anything (or almost), he's also tough as he took a hit from WB. Maybe it's ok for him to have a title and when luffy became the "Pirate King" or when he's almost there, he will fight Akainu to avenge Ace. ( or maybe a three way fight with BB vs Luffy vs Akainu)

just a thought....

[aggeroff]

just a thought...
Dragon is might be the most dangerous man on the world
Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world
Ace is a contender for the title but he's not the type to hold a title (that kind of title) to his name except "One of the Four Emperors"
I hate to admit it but it might be Akainu, he won against Aokiji and became new fleet admiral (i think), he's DF can burn anything (or almost), he's also tough as he took a hit from WB. Maybe it's ok for him to have a title and when luffy became the "Pirate King" or when he's almost there, he will fight Akainu to avenge Ace. ( or maybe a three way fight with BB vs Luffy vs Akainu)

just a thought....

Umm.... Ace is dead... do you mean Shanks?

[xioaxioa]

I'm going to play the safe route and say that it's someone we haven't seen yet.

[Airicks]

If its not Mihawk or Akainu (which sucks because by all right I think Kizaru has the best DF AND he's a navy admiral) then its someone we haven't seen - perhaps by now BB is in the running (since he's stealing strong DF's), although I think if he where the strongest person he would already be making a run for One Piece, obviously he isn't doing that or else Luffy would never be able to catch up to him.

[ChaosMaster]

BB is already a Yonkou. That was his primary goal from the moment WB died. He went around to all the places that were under WB's influence, and put his flag on them. It's not like he stole any other Yonkou's territory or else they would have declared war on him already. Also, being the Worlds Strongest Man doesn't = PK. WB held that title for ages, yet never took the PK title (although he didn't really want to), and as shown, just cos your the Worlds Strongest, doesn't make you undefeatable.

[Airicks]

Do you think WB could not had been the Pirate King if he wanted to? - and I agree Worlds Strongest Man doesn't = Pirate King (for one thing the strongest man may not be a pirate), however if your the strongest pirate and looking for one piece it would put you well ahead of any competition (like Luffy).