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  1. #1
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    Naruto Naruto; the Second Sage.

    [WALL OF TEXT]

    Initially I do think that this sounds crazy. But I have reason to think that naruto is going to be the SECOND TRUE sage. I challenge the definition of what is and isn't a sage.

    As we have seen each generation pass up the other, growing from what was known and learned from others.

    With this in mind it would be easy to realize that at some point someone will reach the same exact potential as the sage, and possibly gain power that is greater then that of the great Rikudō Sennin. This seems a very good possibility considering what the theme I mentioned earlier entails, that those that before us, will be passed by us. The first tiny snag in this is " How do you have greater power then the man who discovered Ninjutsu? The man who set in motion all event in history, up to this point, and All in all was an uber bad-ass?" Took some thinking, but, I've came to the conclusion that It will be the submission of the Bjuu to develop true peace.

    Yes, Bjuu and peace. The sage of the six, could NOT control the power of the 10 tailed fully, so he divided it, in to the 9 more manageable parts so that peace might one day be a reality. He used the demon power yes, but the power was still far to great. He knew that he could not contain the full power forever, and from what we can tell peace wasn't a reality during his time, for had it been, the demons never would have existed( bjuu). They exist because of human malice.

    Now another walk threw sage history.

    Nagato, is considered the second sage, but if anything he didn't amount up to the first. He had an echo of his power with in him that may have became greater, and was indeed a power to be reckoned with, but none the less was pale in comparison. the only thing interesting is that he used paths to do some strange jutsus that were not elemental or form based (Shinra Tensei). He created a big round rock(Chibaku Tensei), not a moon, and surely never discovered anything greater then his ambitions. He was also physically limited, and in the end he suffered threw his own pain.

    (Nagato also was given his power by an man greater then himself but still not as great as the sage)

    Madara Uchiha, is considered the third sage, but if we knocked Nagato out of being a sage then , then maybe we can truthfully call Madara the second. Sure he Is really strong, and now even has both halves of the sages lineage in his eye holes, as well as a clone of the first Hokage in his base to power up some weird plant dudes. Outward strength, and power gathering he has displayed well; With both the Sharingan and Rinnegan he has so much potential. But He WAS at least a regular human and as such had limited chakra control once before. What I mean is he might have limited form and or elemental control maybe not knowing all elements considering they are difficult each to master, still worse he hasn't shown shown signs of doing any kekkei genkai that he doesn't posses. this is important because, tho it doesn't show he cant do them, it doesn't show he can. also he doesn't display the the max abilities of the Rinnegan (shared vision, multi-paths) and like Nagato, who did display those abilities, has gained no further insight in to himself, other then the desire to rule the world, threw the use of the power hes acquired (all of which has been sourced to the great sage) he comes very close to the power of the sage, but diffidently doesn't surpass him yet.

    (NOTE: he does use the demon chakra's, but as a means to add power to an army, and not to increase is own self, now is it used in its "raw" form.)

    (P.S Madara sacrificed some of his power to survive attack from someone who was strong but not sage strong. yes it didn't matter because he replaced it with a potentially better eye , but to considerable that maybe he isn't as strong as we might think, especially against a rising Senju descendant from the leaf)

    Naruto Uzumaki, considered the fourth sage, but if you knock out Nagato for not amounting to the great, and Madara for almost being a sage, but lacking in many areas, then Naruto is the "TRUE SECOND", but not quite yet. Naruto does not have the elemental control down on lock ( only having 1 element), nor does he display much for form control (other then a ball), but what he lacks in knowledge of what the last sage set forth he makes up for in in the little he is knowledgeable about in powerful jutsus, as well as performing sage arts, Senjutsu, and recently, THE KYUUBI inside him.

    That last part is the key to becoming greater then the first sage. because the kyuubi is the largest portion of the original demon, and if controlled, means other demons can be suppressed easily.

    He takes directly from the Bjuu, doesn't use it power to strengthen an army, but grabs it by the balls and tells it " you are coming with me". and what is he learning now? to perform jutsus that don't use typical elements as what the sage taught. He is learning to use pure Bjuu chakra, or "void" element. which also gives him some interesting properties ( speed, strength, a form of telekinesis). Also Interesting is that he is a master of Senjutsu, which take raw nature energy and used for self. but separated by modes of use from demon mode. each mode has its pros and cons, but each mods pros are well worth the cons, and interesting enough the pros of one seems to in some sense balance the cons of another. ( Its also interesting that considering Bjuu chakra shares similar qualities to other chakra, it might be capable of doing crazy things like other chakra, tho more intense-fully)

    Demon eats user chakra: nature gives a huge boost in chakra

    Can't move to gather nature energy (with out clones): has a demon cloke that enables one to stay still and still interact with the world around them.

    Killer bee is note worthy, but he works along side his Bjuu where as
    Naruto is directly using his demon to his own ends, the key difference in they two. killer bee's powers are as if you gradually just replaced yourself with the demon, (jumping between different forms that seem more like him or the demon) which still uses it raw power, but Naruto actually contains that power in the own two hands. Also Naruto doesn't do all that rapping shit.

    Naruto's math:

    Raw Bjuu chakra+ Raw nature energy= raw, immense, power, strength, speed, bad-ass.

    and gets better

    Raw power + limited knowledge first sages teachings ( elemental control and form) = making him an even more capable ninja in a very different way then the original sage, but def unexplored territory in power.

    He is also from a clan of longevity, and has an accelerate healing factor and defense that would stop most damage anyways, so It can be assumed that so long as he doesn't play dumb and get killed he may live a long time, long enough to learn more of what the original sage knew. with time his control of the Bjuu in him will grow and possibly even allow him to take control of the others, and if he learns sealing arts then he could easily seal Bjuu in him perfectly until needed, or reverse summon them for his bidding, from his own body, all of which is possible considering his clan is also known for there ability to use sealing arts efficiently. Best of all he be be capable ensuring that the demons if in one place or several are contained and used for the better of man kind, even after his own death.

    The original sage set in motion event for a being to become stronger then he, a person who could control the Bjuu, and allow all life to live in peace, starting small everything grew and what was born, was Naruto, the story in which this is titled. as the sage gained power among any man in history before him, so to will Naruto, His name to be forever known, savior from men who wished to use there powers to destroy the world in hate, and in false illusions of the Rikudō Sennin. He never intended his two halves to come back together, only challenge each other until the day one was victoriously strong, and over all his good side would win, because if anything that is what he mostly was, a peace loving, world saving, learning, caring man of power.

    This is why Naruto defeated Nagato, this is why he will defeat Madara, and this is why he will conquer Sasuke, in friendship, in peace, in raw power, or in death. In the last case all will begin again, and he will be legend. other wise he could train to contain the worst thing about the world ( Bjuu) and ensure there perfect containment. Peace will rain, not pain, not illusions, but true peace that comes from the true second sage when he meets his true potential.

    Just a thought. =3

    [Wall of text]

    current reading: Naruto:shipuuden, Bleach, Fairytails, Historys strongest diciple kenichi,
    berzerk, deadman wonderland, claymore, hunter x hunter, gantz, blue exorcist, one piece, zetman, witch hunter, liar game, and vagabond ..... I need more!

  2. #2
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    ok, very thoughtful thread, but you got quite a few things wrong. Rikudou Sennin could control the chakra of the jyubi, up till the point of his death, when it would've released from the seal. And Tobi is the second Rikudou, not Nagato, who is the third. Will break it down further later if I feel like it but I'll just wanna make one simple point.

    A rinnegan wielder = a Rikudou Sennin irrelevant if they're able to harness the full powers of the rinnegan or not.

    Rikudou Sennin = Shodai Rikudou Sennin
    Uchiha Madara/Tobi = Niidaime Rikudou Sennin
    Uzumaki Nagato = Sandaime Rikudou Sennin
    Uzumaki Naruto = Yondaime Rikudou Sennin

    Another curious parallel I like, Rikudou was akin to Shodai hokage, the badass powerful ninja, Tobi (whether it be Madara or Izuna) was living in the shadows of the Rikudou, meaning not as powerful as Shodai Rikudou, much like Niidaime hokage Tobirama was living in the shadows of the Shodai hokage Hashirama. Much like his dad, the yondaime hokage, who had greatest potential amongst the hokages, Naruto will become the yondaime Rikudou, the greatest potential amongst the Rikudous.

    Rikudou Sennin was the pinnacle of power, Naruto if he becomes the yondaime Rikudou can rival his power, but that'll only happen after he gains the rinnegan, most likely due to the Itachi's crow giving him some of Itachi's power/and or sealing/stealing Sasuke's Mangekyou powers into Naruto.

    The premise of your thread is wrong tho, doesn't seem like you truly understand the Rikudou's powers. Naruto is either the true heir to Rikudou's powers, or he's the true reincarnation of Rikudou himself, instead of Nagato, however that remains to be seen. But he will become the 4th Sage of Six paths, as in the Yondaime Rikudou Sennin, and also the 6th hokage, as in the Rokudaime hokage
    Last edited by Rokudaime Sennin ™; 01-08-2011 at 01:25 AM.
    A bridge towards peace; the will of fire still endures!


    Rokudaime Hokage, Rokudaime Rikudou Sennin Uzumaki Naruto

  3. #3
    Oh Em Gee! Raymond Agustin's Avatar
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    Uggh... I want to say something but I can't say it 'cause it's far too rude so I'll just stick with the usual reply;

    "Oh, a very well thought theory!".
    "With a thrust it's a Spear; with a sweep it's a Naginata, when you hold it, it's a Longsword; a Cane can become each of those things!"-

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  4. #4
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    I tend to get some info backwards... gawd.

    btw I'm usually way to high to be posting here ( not currently) but like to anyways.

    ok so why is madara the second in current viewing?

    and before i argue id like to know exactly what makes a person a sennin or not?

    current reading: Naruto:shipuuden, Bleach, Fairytails, Historys strongest diciple kenichi,
    berzerk, deadman wonderland, claymore, hunter x hunter, gantz, blue exorcist, one piece, zetman, witch hunter, liar game, and vagabond ..... I need more!

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsubasa View Post

    ok so why is madara the second in current viewing?
    Madara says that Nagato is the 3rd and implies that he is the 3rd because he claims that he possessed the Rinnegan before Nagato and gave it to him.



    Quote Originally Posted by tsubasa View Post
    and before i argue id like to know exactly what makes a person a sennin or not?
    Unfortunately Senin is a word that gets thrown around a lot in this story so its kind of confusing sometimes. Based on what Madara said though it seems that he refers to a Sage of 6 Paths as someone who possesses the Rinnegan and possibly the blood of the original Sage. Madara seems to imply that he became the Second Sage of 6 Paths by fusing the bloodlines of himself and Hashirama, possibly allowing him to create the Rinnegan in the process. Nagato is an Uzumaki, a clan which seems to be at least partially related to the Original Rikudou, and most importantly he had the Rinnegan, making him the 3rd person to have it if what Madara says is true.

    Naruto so far doesn't seem to have the Uchiha or Senju blood or the Rinnegan but his Uzumaki bloodline is ambigious in terms of where it fits into the Rikodou's family tree so its hard to say where he fits, obviously Nagato also being Uzumaki is significant. If Madara was able to give the Rinnegan to Nagato it does seem possible that Naruto could also obtain it, which would then make him the 4th Sage. As you mentioned though I don't think it will be a simple case of Naruto acquire pieces of the bloodlines like others have done. Madara seems to have basically mutilated himself to become the Second Sage of Six Paths, he has done it through some bizarre alchemy. I suspect that if Naruto does become the next Sage of Six Paths it will be through some kind of spiritual awakening or in inner evolution. While Naruto was given the 9-tails as an external source of power most of his upgrades come through some degree of relization within himself. I find it interesting that there aren't more people questioning the Original Rikudou's origin. So far, almost every major bloodline and power are somehow linked back to him but he himself seems to have just concieved it all naturally. It could be that he was just gifted by fate or god as somekind of messiah but I have a feeling it might be more. My guess is that through all of his trials Naruto will awken some power in himself that goes beyond what he was simply given through heretity or through the fox. I think that Sage mode offers a hint as to how the first Rikudou might have obtained his abilities. The whole six paths thing is also tied into buddism which may imply spiritual enlightenment as the source of Rikudou.

    Anyway, I think this theory is a bit off base but there are some good points in there. It's hard to say what Naruto's final form will be. I think it would be fitting if Naruto were to somehow unite the bloodlines in himself somehow but if he does I really don't think it will be through taking people's eyes and implanting other people's blood/powers into himself. I think the concept of Naruto becoming enlightened and obtaining the power on a more spiritual and natural level makes more sense. I agree with the idea that Naruto may become the Second Sage in the true sense of what the Original Sage was. As you have mentioned both Madara and Nagato don't really seem to be true Sage's they seem more like biological replicates, people who have obtained many of the Sage's trademark abilities but lacking much of what truly made him godly.

  6. #6
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    I much like your way of said it, considering I've been shown wrong. on two counts.

    I guess I over looked a few parts of the manga, shame on me.

    I suppose the over all idea is that Naruto is going to be a "true sage" and the second to do this with out being a medical puppet in any sense that applies in Naruto ( Madara, Nagato, Kabuto[not that he doesn't challenge the boundaries in terms of power, but def would be what we called "sage"])

    acquiring parts of what once was whole does not mean one equals the whole. they only prove to get close to it. If Naruto as a character stays in theme then he shoud become even more powerful then anyone ever. ssj 1 million. but enlightened as you said ^^

    current reading: Naruto:shipuuden, Bleach, Fairytails, Historys strongest diciple kenichi,
    berzerk, deadman wonderland, claymore, hunter x hunter, gantz, blue exorcist, one piece, zetman, witch hunter, liar game, and vagabond ..... I need more!

  7. #7
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Just throwing this out there, Naruto's Uzumaki lineage actually puts him closer to the "Rikudou" bloodline than if he were a Senju, at this point. The Senju were more militant, and had the greater fame, plus they were rivals with the Uchiha. However, the Uzumaki retained their powers (the Sage's Body) more than the Senju, hence Uzumaki being imported to house the Kyuubi in Konoha. The Senju no longer had members who were strong enough to contain its malice and sheer power, while Naruto and Kushina were able to do so with a smile. Madara went as far as to say, "You Uzumaki are something else" or somesuch when he saw Kushina had survived her Bijuu's extraction. He also clearly picked Nagato because of his Uzumaki clan lineage, and not a Senju, to inherit the Rinnegan.

    It also seems clear to me that Minato is somehow a Senju, just like all the other residents of Konoha (none of which have been shown to bear the name "Senju" within their respective clans). I think the Senju clan either branched off into many clans, formed a conglomerate with smaller clans, or is a name passed down only amongst the leaders of the united Senju nation. I'm still waiting for clarification on the whole "Senju" thing. Madara and Sasuke have clearly treated all of Konoha as if it were comprised of Senju, but most of Konoha's residents don't show any greater physical strength than other ninjas, and none actually share the name.

    I'm guessing Kishi didn't plan the Senju/Uchiha thing until after he'd already given the characters different clan names, but I could be wrong. Even if he had, it'd be a pretty weird storyline if everyone in the village had the same last name except the Uchiha/Hyuga clans.

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