General NBA Discussion

[DFX]

Nice idea for a thread Cross. I personally think the Magic have screwed themselves long-term for a chance to win now. Unfortunately if they don't win it this year or next D12 is out of there.

Heat is going take it this season to all you haters this is undeniable. Lebron fouling Koby's dunks on Christmas was the best Christmas present.

Knicks are actually playing basketball, they haven't done that in a long time, I'm still not a fan of my home team.

Yes because the Heat's complete lack of interior defense is totally gonna win them a ship'. While they may have hit the FA jackpot this season they're still as soft as toilet paper. They lack anything in two of the most important positions, center and point guard. Give them a year or two with the MLE and then we can talk, but this year? Not a chance.

I hope so, F everybody who thinks lebron dissed clevland, its obvious that the owner didn't care about winning anyways, hes only in it for the revenue.

No sir, fuck you. Lebron did diss Cleveland, the team he played with for 7 years, by not having the decency to inform them of his decision beforehand. No, instead he had one of his buddies call them up minutes before he announced it himself. Lebron had every right to leave the Cavs, however it is never right to have a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic, love-fest. I'm a Cavs fan and it made me sick even when I still thought he was coming back.

By the way your point about Gilbert only caring about revenue is counter intuitive. Winning brings in even more revenue, so of course he cares about winning.

^ Yo you should really check out D. Wades interview about him and Lebron leaving for heat, I got a lot more respect for them after hearing the real reasons behind it. They didn't do it for the money if anything they were offered a lot more money from other teams. Because they say underrated real good talent there and wanted to bring them up, why I'm rooting for Heat this year.

You actually bought that shit? They joined together because they believe that's it's the quickest way for them to win championships. Besides there is no "real good underrated talent" in Miami. Pat Riley literally cleared the entire roster except for Mario Chalmers. They then proceeded to sign Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller with the money that the Three didn't take and filled out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players. There is no underrated talent there, maybe some overrated talent i.e. Bosh, but no young underrated prospects.

With that said, when you bandwagon bitches decide to talk some real basketball I'll be waiting.

[FenixMarco]

Yes because the Heat's complete lack of interior defense is totally gonna win them a ship'. While they may have hit the FA jackpot this season they're still as soft as toilet paper. They lack anything in two of the most important positions, center and point guard. Give them a year or two with the MLE and then we can talk, but this year? Not a chance.

Your exaggerating their defensive flaw, it's obvious they need to work on that but if you been actually watching their games. You know they got the insane offense to make up for it, what those how much they get payed have to do with how they play? Or did you mean playing with mid level players/teams because I'm curious on your thoughts on these mid level players/teams. Like what are they?

You actually bought that shit? They joined together because they believe that's it's the quickest way for them to win championships. Besides there is no "real good underrated talent" in Miami. Pat Riley literally cleared the entire roster except for Mario Chalmers. They then proceeded to sign Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller with the money that the Three didn't take and filled out the rest of the roster with veteran minimum players. There is no underrated talent there, maybe some overrated talent i.e. Bosh, but no young underrated prospects.

You actually believe that shit your spouting? If they were on that mind set they know they had better chances joining the lakers or even Knicks at this point. Just a head up every single player in NBA wants the quickest path to win a championship that is nothing new. Bosh overrated?? Do you even watch basketball? Or did you just watch your team and googled miami heat when Lebron went there.

With that said, when you bandwagon bitches decide to talk some real basketball I'll be waiting.

Yeah because real basketball talk is about potential trades and actual trades right?. So Lebron left the Cavaliers?! Who gives a fuck everything is said and done on the court. He left for good reason too, they sucked he was probably the only progressive player in that team for all seven years. Stay in a team that will probably never win a championship in your life time? Or play with a different team that actually progresses through their loses and wins? Shaq right now must be pissed as hell too, that's what he gets for trying to get carried by Lebron. All the Cav's had was Lebron, anyone watching the games now can clearly see that. Cav's 8 wins 24 loses while Heat are 26 wins 9 loses what do you know the complete fucking opposite.

Miami Heat is struggling though ain't going to lie, still getting used to "their new set up", they are only syncing with one another much better with each passing game how I see it. Like DFX mention their defense ain't so good I don't think it's because of the point guard though. Than again this points to the sad truth in the 3 months Lebron played with Miami he experienced more team development than the 7 years he played with the Cavs.

Reporter: Wade why was you traveling this game?

Wade: Yeah sorry I was just pondering about the potential trades.

Reporter: What?

Wade: REAL TALK! ALL DAY! JUST ME! BY MYSELF! ON THE BLOCK! HOLDING IT DOWN! GUN IN MY WAIST! STRAIGHT FACE! ALL DAY! NOT A GAME! IN JAIL! BY MYSELF! ONE BED! NO PILLOW CASE! ONE PILLOW! THEN NOBODY WRITE ME! WOKE UP! IT WAS EARLY! TOOK A NAP! YOU EVER GO NIGHT NIGHT?! YOU EVER GO NIGHT NIGHT?! EVERYBODY GO NIGHT NIGHT!

Reporter: What those this have to do with you traveling?

[Mister Death]

Your exaggerating their defensive flaw, it's obvious they need to work on that but if you been actually watching their games. You know they got the insane offense to make up for it, what those how much they get payed have to do with how they play? Or did you mean playing with mid level players/teams because I'm curious on your thoughts on these mid level players/teams. Like what are they?

I don't think its a exaggeration about their defense, because didn't the last time the played the mavs, the mavs scored 34 points on them in the 4th quarter...

[FenixMarco]

^ I don't recall that game, Miami heat vs Dallas mavericks with Lebron and Wade? That they lost by 34 points? Miami did lose to Dallas only by 11 points though. Dallas by the way started to lose quite a bit recently but before that they were tearing shit up. I still think they tearing shit up since 2/3 of those games were close.

Heat is having trouble playing the hornets they lose to them twice first time by 14 points but the second game only by 3 points. So you can see they only getting better.

Spurs vs heat was the biggest lost so far for them, 17 points.

[DFX]

Your exaggerating their defensive flaw, it's obvious they need to work on that but if you been actually watching their games. You know they got the insane offense to make up for it, what those how much they get payed have to do with how they play? Or did you mean playing with mid level players/teams because I'm curious on your thoughts on these mid level players/teams. Like what are they?

The crazy thing is I'm not exaggerating that much. I have been watching and they do have some great offense, but defense is what wins championships. They really are incredibly soft and that will hurt them in the playoffs. They're going to blow through the regular season, probably something like 55-60 wins. But that really has no bearings on the playoffs. They need to get tougher on the inside so that certain teams like the Celtics can't pick them apart from the inside with their bigs.

As for the money it's quite simple, better players will ask for more money. It's the reason neither Mike Miller nor Udonis Haslem took the vet min. Vet minimum guys are typically over-the-hill players on their last legs trying to win a ring. For example; Big Z is your starting center. He's one of those vet min guys that I'm talking about. Now, I love Big Z, but he's 35 and his feet are shot to hell. You can't win a ship with him guarding the paint for you, not at this point in his career. Now the MLE, as in the mid-level exception, the exception that is given to teams over the cap that will allow them to bring in some solid role players to help flesh out the positions in which they are weak.

They're not winning the ship this year, you can spin it however you want, but it just won't happen this year. This is a learning year for them after all. Next year? Sure I could see them winning as long as the lockout doesn't consume the entire season.

You actually believe that shit your spouting? If they were on that mind set they know they had better chances joining the lakers or even Knicks at this point. Just a head up every single player in NBA wants the quickest path to win a championship that is nothing new. Bosh overrated?? Do you even watch basketball? Or did you just watch your team and googled miami heat when Lebron went there.

You know except for the fact that the Lakers had no space to sign any of them. And the Knicks? Really? How pretell do the Knicks have a better shot at winning? They have sucked for the last decade and now that they have Amare they have a glimmer of hope, but they better hope Melo hauls ass to NY else they're not going anywhere either as of now.

It's sad, but you're right. Most players nowadays don't really care, they just want to win their rings and party. I'm still holding out hope that Kevin Durant is different, but I've learned not to trust the personae that stars put forth to the public.

I love your attempt at an insult. I'm not saying Bosh isn't a good player, but people keep acting like he's hot-shit. He's not. He couldn't do shit in Toronto while he was there, but then again they tried to make him into something he's not. He's not a first option type of player, he can play as a second option, but he's going to thrive in Miami as a third option.

Yeah because real basketball talk is about potential trades and actual trades right?. So Lebron left the Cavaliers?! Who gives a fuck everything is said and done the court. He left for good reason too, they sucked he was probably the only progressive player in that team for all seven years. Stay in a team that will probably never win a championship in your life time? Or play with a different team that actually progresses through their loses and wins? Shaq right now must be pissed as hell too, that's what he gets for trying to get carried by Lebron. All the Cav's had was Lebron, anyone watching the games now can clearly see that. Cav's 8 wins 24 loses while Heat are 26 wins 9 loses what do you know the complete fucking opposite.

Miami Heat is struggling though ain't going to lie, still getting used to "their new set up", they are only syncing with one another much better with each passing game how I see it. Than again this points to the sad truth though in the 3 months Lebron played with Miami there was more team development than the 7 years he played with the Cavs.

You completely missed the point, I'm not saying talking about potential trades is real basketball talk. I was telling you guys if you wanted to talk some real basketball and not just you guys slobbering over the Heat I'd be waiting.

I am over it, well not entirely, but shit happens. Like I've already said I have no problem with him leaving, he had every right to do so. All I wanted was for him to show some class. I'm still pissed about how he did it, but I've grown up in the era of free agency so I believe players have the right to go wherever they want as long as they play out their contracts.

Really now? Are you seriously trying to use this season's record to compare the two? A more apt comparison would be to compare the record of the Cavs from last season at this time to this season's Heat if you want to compare teams. Last year at this time the Cavs were 27-8 this years Heat team is about the same.

Did you ever actually follow the Cavs while Lebron was there? Sure we suck now, but that's to be expected. Let's ignore the fact that we lost half of our 8-man rotation and that we just got a new coach with a new offense system. We were a team built around a single piece, without him we're a team of spare parts trying to fit together. Progressive players? Wtf does that even mean? Was he the only amazing player? Sure, but we have a couple of other decent pieces, not many and nowhere near as good as Lebron though.

[Mister Death]

^ I don't recall that game, Miami heat vs Dallas mavericks with Lebron and Wade? That they lost 34 points? Miami did lose to Dallas only by 11 points though. Dallas by the way started to lose quite a bit but before that they were tearing shit up.

Heat is having trouble playing the hornets they lose to them twice first time by 14 points but the second game only by 3 points. So you can see they only getting better.

Spurs vs heat was the biggest lost so far for them, 17 points.

My mistake it was the 3rd quarter and it was 31 points...

[FenixMarco]

The crazy thing is I'm not exaggerating that much. I have been watching and they do have some great offense, but defense is what wins championships. They really are incredibly soft and that will hurt them in the playoffs. They're going to blow through the regular season, probably something like 55-60 wins. But that really has no bearings on the playoffs. They need to get tougher on the inside so that certain teams like the Celtics can't pick them apart from the inside with their bigs.

Alright sorry for the disrespect and yes I'll admit I was slobbering over the Heat, I'm more of a player fan than a team fan do the same for baseball. Also admit the fact their defense those suck and exactly what you just said above is the reason they probably won't win this year if they don't get their shit together on that. Even if they do they'll still have only a slight chance.

As for the money it's quite simple, better players will ask for more money. It's the reason neither Mike Miller nor Udonis Haslem took the vet min. Vet minimum guys are typically over-the-hill players on their last legs trying to win a ring. For example; Big Z is your starting center. He's one of those vet min guys that I'm talking about. Now, I love Big Z, but he's 35 and his feet are shot to hell. You can't win a ship with him guarding the paint for you, not at this point in his career. Now the MLE, as in the mid-level exception, the exception that is given to teams over the cap that will allow them to bring in some solid role players to help flesh out the positions in which they are weak.

Ah I see what you meant now, I was too short visioned about it once the thought of money showed up. This actually my first time talking about NBA on a forum I'm not familiar with abbreviations. Thanks for educating me on this. (No sarcasm/pun intended)

They're not winning the ship this year, you can spin it however you want, but it just won't happen this year. This is a learning year for them after all. Next year? Sure I could see them winning as long as the lockout doesn't consume the entire season.

Alright fine I'm just a hopeless fan, I still think they can pull it off.

You know except for the fact that the Lakers had no space to sign any of them. And the Knicks? Really? How pretell do the Knicks have a better shot at winning? They have sucked for the last decade and now that they have Amare they have a glimmer of hope, but they better hope Melo hauls ass to NY else they're not going anywhere either as of now.

Lakers had space and if not its not like Magic couldn't make space he did it before. The Knicks was a joke and you just pretty much said the whole thing on point.

It's sad, but you're right. Most players nowadays don't really care, they just want to win their rings and party. I'm still holding out hope that Kevin Durant is different, but I've learned not to trust the personae that stars put forth to the public.

Yeah it's all about "me" nowadays, this not something I'm even proud to say I'm correct on, not liking it either.

I love your attempt at an insult. I'm not saying Bosh isn't a good player, but people keep acting like he's hot-shit. He's not. He couldn't do shit in Toronto while he was there, but then again they tried to make him into something he's not. He's not a first option type of player, he can play as a second option, but he's going to thrive in Miami as a third option.

Bosh ain't hot-shit but he ain't shit either, so he didn't get a nice spark starting with Toronto I still see him as a real good player just with some limits. I don't think he's going thrive as a third option in Miami but I also agree he definitely ain't no first.

You completely missed the point, I'm not saying talking about potential trades is real basketball talk. I was telling you guys if you wanted to talk some real basketball and not just you guys slobbering over the Heat I'd be waiting.

I am over it, well not entirely, but shit happens. Like I've already said I have no problem with him leaving, he had every right to do so. All I wanted was for him to show some class. I'm still pissed about how he did it, but I've grown up in the era of free agency so I believe players have the right to go wherever they want as long as they play out their contracts.

Caught me red handed there, I definitely missed the point on what you meant.

Lebron literally did the change up like that? I saw the media way back when it happen I thought they was just exaggerating like they do 9/10 of the time, the media that is. Why I tend to ignore the extra drama crap that comes from sports. If so that's definitely a low blow from Lebron, although I just see it exactly like you put it free agency bit.

Really now? Are you seriously trying to use this season's record to compare the two? A more apt comparison would be to compare the record of the Cavs from last season at this time to this season's Heat if you want to compare teams. Last year at this time the Cavs were 27-8 this years Heat team is about the same.

Did you ever actually follow the Cavs while Lebron was there? Sure we suck now, but that's to be expected. Let's ignore the fact that we lost half of our 8-man rotation and that we just got a new coach with a new offense system. We were a team built around a single piece, without him we're a team of spare parts trying to fit together. Progressive players? Wtf does that even mean? Was he the only amazing player? Sure, but we have a couple of other decent pieces, not many and nowhere near as good as Lebron though.

Comparing them still doesn't change the fact of the difference with Lebron in it and not in the Cavs, I do see what your saying though that there really isn't a new found difference with the heat. So yeah my mistake I should had compared both teams with Lebron in it on that last take.

Alright Cavs really got fucked understand that, what I meant literally by progressive players the players around him weren't really improving that much and the coach/owner (forgot his name who ever did this) was just taking them out before they even could get better and adding some new players in to "fix" the problem. So not only was he too focused on that star player for his whole set up he didn't give them time. I honestly felt like Lebron was literally carrying that team and the same repetitive shit just kept on happening for 7 years. That would make a someone want to leave, probably why he got fired too that coach/owner.

My mistake it was the 3rd quarter and it was 31 points...

My bad I thought you meant game overall, but yes....mavs had 31 points on them on 3rd quarter but you can't say they beat them that quarter by 31 points. They beat them that quarter by 14 points, but this goes back to what DFX was mentioning they are definitely too soft right now, mavs ain't the only ones who gave them a huge hit in a quarter or 2 regardless if they won/lose.

[dct21]

No sir, fuck you.

No fuck clevland and every media outlet who was making such a big deal out of it, like seriously i live in milwaukee and seems like lebron was the only thing they could talk about after the decision.

Lebron did diss Cleveland, the team he played with for 7 years, by not having the decency to inform them of his decision beforehand.

Wow your'e acting like he's obligated to tell you everything hes about to do

No, instead he had one of his buddies call them up minutes before he announced it himself. Lebron had every right to leave the Cavs, however it is never right to have a self-aggrandizing, narcissistic, love-fest. I'm a Cavs fan and it made me sick even when I still thought he was coming back.

Why blame ,lebron for the decision ESPN is the one who Ok'd. Personally i didn't even watch i was asleep at the time; And that's your'e fault for being to optimistic you should've known he wasn't going sign when we declined an extinction the previous 2 years

By the way your point about Gilbert only caring about revenue is counter intuitive. Winning brings in even more revenue, so of course he cares about winning.

If he really cared about winning a championship he would have started to surround lebron with better players after the loss to the spurs in the finals in 07 but he did nothing. He went and got delanta west, then a year later mo williams (same position), and last year he chose antwoine jamison over stoudimire cmon son' he doesn't care about winning he just cared about ticket sales.

[Arbitrary]

This was a TRADE DISCUSSION thread. :(

[cross777]

IK LOL let get back on track please

Nice idea for a thread Cross. I personally think the Magic have screwed themselves long-term for a chance to win now. Unfortunately if they don't win it this year or next D12 is out of there.

With that said, when you bandwagon bitches decide to talk some real basketball I'll be waiting.

thank DFX and i see your point on the Orlando trade i guess i am bias because i am a wiz fan, but yeah if they do not at least make it back to the finals they are in deep s**t, and we may end up seeing D12 being traded if they do not start winning soon. for the most part if he does not take an extension b4 his contract if up they are not going to just let him walk away and not get any thing for him, that would just be stupid.

and heat heat do not have the role player depth right now to win a title, and the main problem with the big 3 is that the heat are drained on the cap so unless they can tempt players to come for WAY less money they are not going to get the depth they need. also, with the level of talent that they might be willing to trade it would take draft picks to get any helpful players in a trade and considering how there cap situation is any trade that would really help them would be complex and hard to maneuver.

also, i wanted to talk about new york and how them trading for Anthony would just be a huge mistake. most people in new york are all a going nuts about hear all that stuff about the possible Anthony trades, but really it would be a bad idea for new york to trade for him right not. Anthony is leaving Denver because from the looks of it it would take nothing short of an act of god to keep him there. in order to get him to new york in a trade they would have to give up a lot of there young talent and some of there good players that are making them play as well as they are right now. plus if they just wait chances are they can get him in free agency because they will have about 22-23 mill coming off of the books this year.

also its possible that they might not even be able to pull it off any way, so if they decide not to or just can not. they have to other trade options if they do not just want to wait and hope for anthony in the off season. there have been rumors flying around about new yorks interest in trading for Andre Iguodala ( witch would cost them a lot less player and cap wise and would be less complected). the 76ers might be happy with eddy curry's expiring contract for cap room and a player and iggy is not a bad 2ed option at all.
or
Anderson Varejao and Daniel Gibson from Cleveland but it would fill the back up roles that they have been looking to improve. (do not have much info on these BUT here is the article HERE )
but sorry for ranting LOL.