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  1. #11
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    The whole Rasengan thing itself is so improbable that It takes a good sized suspension of disbelief....However my friend, I do not think it is a black hole for several reasons.

    1) It's most likely a version of QB's own chakra blast, and that wasn't a Black Hole

    2) If it were a Black Hole, it would do more than burn Naruto, it would suck him in and oops no hands.

    3) If it were a black hole, it would not just be heavy, it would be impossible to lift.
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    Anyhow THIS IS NARUTO a manga, and Kishi could make it have a Black Hole like effect. IMHO, I do believe Naruto would turn it into a Black Odama Rassenshuriken in the end.

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  2. #12
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    As I mentioned in a previous thread I am also in favor of this concept. I think not only is it plausible it also seems like it would be the perfect technique to counter Madara. Quite frankly, the biggest bomb in existence wouldn't do a damn thing to Madara, he already survived the Deidara's self distruction (which is probably the biggest bomb we have seen in the series sofar) and Konan's ocean of exploding tags. He did all that before he had the Rinnegan. Madara has already dealt with the Kyuubi, he has dealt with all measures of raw power, Minato hit him with Rasengan and he survived Sasuke hit him with Amaterasu and he survived. Minato himself said that only someone with a very special skill set can defeat Madara. If it was simply a case of using a bijuu bomb, I don't think he would have put it in that way. As I have said many times, despite the parallels, Naruto isn't Dragonball, this isn't a series where the guy would can create the biggest explosion wins (at least it hasn't been sofar, thankfully). Naruto needs more than just a raw destructive force to defeat Madara, otherwise the Rasenshuriken would probably be sufficient. Naruto needs an ability that deals with Madara's specific abilities and a power that Madara cannot replicate.

    The way I see it a black hole technique would be an excellent counter to Madara because it could potentially get around his otherwise iron clad defenses. Madara was already close to untouchable but now that he has the Rinnegan dealing with high power blasts should be much easier for him, he should be able to deflect most attacks with Shira Tensei just like Nagato did, and he should be able to absorb essentially any chakra based technique with the Petra Path ability. He also has his own dimension, and considering that is the technique he was trying to use to trap Minato, I assume that once he gets a person in there its basically his win. When Sasuke was in Madara's dimension he seemed helpless to escape from it. If Naruto's Rasengan/bijuu bomb could create a black hole or tear the fabrick of space/time it could potentially break a hole in Madara's dimension and swallow him up.

    Right now I still don't see anything in Naruto's skillset that would be a good counter to the EMS. Sasuke and Madara both have techniques that are powerful but also techniques that have deadly after effects. If Sasuke's Susano weapons have similar properties to Itachi's sword and shield then Sasuke is probably going to be all but immune to physical attacks at this point and that doesn't even touch on the new power(s) his eyes may now possess. Naruto's speed/strength/rasengan, are great for dealing with most opponents who are vulnerable to physical attacks but the top tier guys are no longer in that catagory. Kabuto is probably also phyically invincible since Orochimaru was already almost invulnerable to physical harm and Kabuto was a medical expert with awesome healing abilities, par the two together and I highly doubt that a nuke sized bomb would be sufficient to bring him down. Naruto needs an ability to compete with all these physically invulnerable guys. A highly dense chakra implosion seems like it could do the trick as it could bend or interefere with the laws of space/time.

    Of course there is still the possibility that Naruto will not be able to defeat Madara himself and he will need Sasuke's help to make Madara vulnerable or something along those lines. Considering Minato has basically foretold that Naruto will be able to gain the power necessary to defeat Madara though, and he will need the Kyuubi's chakra to do it, I think that the theory of a black hole or at least some kind of reality bending technique born from the Rasengan/Kyuubi chakra makes sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The whole Rasengan thing itself is so improbable that It takes a good sized suspension of disbelief....However my friend, I do not think it is a black hole for several reasons.
    To address these points:

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    1) It's most likely a version of QB's own chakra blast, and that wasn't a Black Hole
    If it was simply a Kyuubi blast there would be almost nothing to make it different from Killerbee's and I highly doubt that mixing it with the Rasengan will simply create a equivalent to what the Kyuubi already did. I believe Minato set these events in motion for a more specific reason one that goes beyond just recreating the Kyuubi's strongest attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    2) If it were a Black Hole, it would do more than burn Naruto, it would suck him in and oops no hands.
    Not necessarily, I would imagine that the black hole would be an after effect of the initial blast. Pain was not sucked up by Chibaku Tensei, I see the result as being somewhat similar to that. Basically the bomb would explode and then implode creating a reality warping reaction in a large radius that would prevent the use of time/space techniques. The black hole itself would only consume objects people near the blast radius.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    3) If it were a black hole, it would not just be heavy, it would be impossible to lift.
    As I mentioned, I don't think it will be a case of him lifting a black hole, I think the black hole will form after the bomb detonates. Think of a supernova that happens before a black hole is formed. The initial bomb will be a devestating force but the density of the chakra will cause it to collapse on itself, or something along those lines. We aren't dealing with real science here, rather trying to come up with a principal that is believeable within the confines of the story.
    Last edited by artifice; 12-18-2010 at 06:21 AM.

  3. #13
    While I think that a black hole jutsu would be interesting... I think that the final version of this technique will be 2 techniques. A Light based chakra, rasengan (healing/life). And a Dark Wind chakra, rasengan(death/destruction).[Even vice versa, a counter to the dark flames of amaterasu].

    Power over life and death is the sign of a true sage right?
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    Fan of the Rasengan Doujutsu theory, even though it's dead. Although, he does have the special Uzumaki clan blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Because he's the hero the shinobi world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Naruto.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    On second thought, I bet this new Rasengan is gonna be red, not black.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    On second thought, I bet this new Rasengan is gonna be red, not black.
    It's more like that the black will be black, but the white will be red. The same as kyubi 4 tails mode was.

  6. #16
    Senior Member kiduka's Avatar
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    Cool theory but since this isn't his trump card I seriously doubt it's going to be a black hole technique. Besides a black hole would be too destructive, Naruto wouldn't use a technique that could potentially harm others.

    His dad left him "That Jutsu" not to mention Itachi's powers which should be enough to counter Madara. This is just another upgrade to the rasengan though I don't see it being useful considering his opponents.

    This Jutsu would only be useful if the Juubi was revived where Naruto and the Juubi engage in a Bijuu bomb duel Kamehameha style lol

  7. #17
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Well, when Six-Tails mode Naruto was preparing to fire off a Bijuu Blast at God Realm, God Realm deflected it by hitting Naruto with a rock before the Bijuu Blast could be released. Couple that with the Kyuubi turning God Realm's own Shinrai Tensei on him, and I think the Kyuubi's power (and Bijuu Blast) is enough to counter defensive jutsu such as Shinrai Tensei.

    Why is this significant? Because Madara possesses Shinrai Tensei, and Sasuke possesses another powerful defensive technique, Susano'o. We know Shinrai Tensei is able to easily break apart the flimsy Wind-Style Rasenshuriken technique, so that level of destructive power isn't enough to hit Madara. It's possible Sasuke's Susano'o will get the same Shield as Itachi's now that the eye exchange is complete, so another level of Rasengan will help Naruto penetrate that defense.

    I know that Naruto's got more to worry about against Madara than just Shinrai Tensei (like the phasing technique and Izanagi, not to mention the power to absorb all jutsu). But being able to increase his powers to fight on a higher level isn't too shabby. Since he's all about Rasengan to begin with, he has to make sure it's strong enough to continue being effective.

  8. #18
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    an interesting theory for sure. It would explain Madara's renewed urgency to capture Naruto after Kisame's shark summon delivered that intel scroll. I have no doubt that Madara knows that Naruto's progress will make him even harder to capture than before and being the supremely knowledgeable geezer that he is, he could know that Naruto could now find a way to breakdown his seemingly impenetrable defense. Whether it's through a black hole that messes with his ability to warp at will or through sheer destructive force.

    And if this theory plays out in the manga I don't think it would be a case of Kishi overplaying the time/space angle, seeing as Minato had time/space jutsu it could be a legacy that Naruto is able to further thanks to his new abilities. Besides which in the kyuubi attack flashback Minato's shown to be able to hold his own against Madara thanks to his time/space jutsu, and besides Madara and Minato and Kakashi there aren't many other character's who use such jutsu.

  9. #19
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Read the theories back then. Throwing the FRS was almost a certainty. The only question was how.

    Anyway, the Black Hole theory sounds plausible, but I think it would be IMHO an overuse of the space-time concept.

    And no the Rasengan isn't solid.
    That came out wrong, I meant partially solid because they talk about the rasengan's dense chakra forming into a sphere. Something can't be dense if there's no element of solidness. This isn't exactly scientific terminology or anything, but if were go into this more I'd bore the entitle forum. Basically all I'm saying just like the tailed beast bomb the rasengnan also has weight.
    Last edited by psukkar; 12-23-2010 at 06:14 AM.

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