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  1. #11
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    Wow... OK where to start...

    First off, why are you applying real world to physics to comic/mangas? And you seem to make the assumption that superman only has power when the sun is shining. Then go on to say he can't even have the the full power of a yellow star, since thats where he gets his power from.

    You fail to mention (or maybe you don't know) Superman doesn't just 'get' energy from the sun he absorbs the radiation(like a battery)... This is why he still has powers even at night.

    You can go on to say 'Well he couldn't had adsorbed THAT much radiation!'.

    The fact is, it doesn't have to make sense in our world. mail the writers, I'm not going to go back and read all the Superman comics to find proof of what he's done, however all the examples I used is what he HAS DONE.

    And what he HAS DONE overcomes ANYTHING Goku or frankly any other manga character(aside gurren laggen) has ever done..

    Superman>Goku

    PS:
    I was never implying Wildcat/Batman (well maybe Batman) where martial artist on the level of Roshi, I was just saying Obviously Superman isn't just going to be throwing haymakers, Even if all his training from Batman went to waste he knows all the Kryptonian Martial Arts.

    And here's something I just found about his speed.. like I said real world physics matter little. The fact is he's done it. Don't act like its not fair and DBZ has never broken the laws of physics either.. that would be a joke.

    Spoiler!
    Try applying logic to your argument instead of, "It's been done, so I'm right". I proved all four of your points wrong. Try to find examples to prove me wrong like when DBZ doesn't follow physics. Physics applies everywhere and if you're going to compare characters, you have to find some common ground or you might as well make-up a character called God that is stronger than everybody. There has to be limits imposed.Every writer has rules that they create in their universes. I don't care if they follow physics as long as the writers explain it. Did I ever say that Superman does not have powers in the night? If a person fails to mention does not mean the person does not know, it's because it's a little too obvious that superman has powers in the night. Obviously, he absorbs the solar energy from the sun which is basically radiation, but he cannot just absorb any radiation. It has to be energy on a level from a yellow star. They did try to make machines that emit artificial light, but the radiation was still mimicking the sun. Lastly, let us "assume" (a word I hate) that superman can absorb the energy of a entire yellow star, you think he can do any of the things you mentioned before?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    Ok, lol lets apply some logic..

    -Can anything fly inside a atmosphere without lift? no.. however Goku/Superman and many more can fly.
    -Is there such thing as Ki? no theres not. and if there is it is unmeasurable.
    -Can you create something out of nothing? No you can't. however this is exactly what happens with kamehamehas, they create energy out of nothing. I know Goku isnt human however Krillin is and he can do it too. Not only that the Ape form of sayans comes out of nothing, they start of as human size and grow into Kong sized gorilas, now where did the tissue/blood Come from?
    -Can anything the size of a person 'Instant Transmit'? No... teleporting like that is only possible in quantum physics, when you get so small laws break down.

    And aside from the total unproportional strength to body mass that is shown by DBZ, its simply impossible for living organisms so similar to humans that they can breed with us to do 95% of whats shown.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

    Your whole premise is that since things superman does in the comics cannot happen in the real world you have to write those powers off.

    However, if in that case, Goku simply couldn't exist, He's an alien specie evolved on another planet however is so similar to humans he can breed and have successful children. Modern humans have lost the genes to have functional tails, so that alone makes it impossible at a genetic level for Goku to have kids with a human.

    However since this is a Manga they are aloud to do these things, its not real world. I do agree on a common playing field however you have to put it in a universe that allows them to use the extent of their powers.

    And when they are aloud to use their full range of powers Superman trumps Goku everytime.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member cross777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    The hulk is a good one, but Superman would murder Goku.


    All and all Superman crushes Goku
    you are dead to me
    ARE YOU ON CRACK
    goku would rip out super mans intestines hang him with it, then beat him like a a read headed step child.
    goku and super man would be on the same strength level BUT when it comes to energy projection goku own and will own and would own. as a manga fan you should know better i grew up with him A and am very well informed on super man. GOKU OWNS him all night and day
    Quote Originally Posted by arisart View Post
    Lol, I bet you argue too much with cross. It's not really healthy you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Death View Post
    Hey stick to the topic, quit asking nonsense question about other series or if cross777 is thunder luffy which by the way have different IP addresses.... Next person that goes off topic will be infracted...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #14
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    Ok, lol lets apply some logic..

    -Can anything fly inside a atmosphere without lift? no.. however Goku/Superman and many more can fly.
    -Is there such thing as Ki? no theres not. and if there is it is unmeasurable.
    -Can you create something out of nothing? No you can't. however this is exactly what happens with kamehamehas, they create energy out of nothing. I know Goku isnt human however Krillin is and he can do it too. Not only that the Ape form of sayans comes out of nothing, they start of as human size and grow into Kong sized gorilas, now where did the tissue/blood Come from?
    -Can anything the size of a person 'Instant Transmit'? No... teleporting like that is only possible in quantum physics, when you get so small laws break down.

    And aside from the total unproportional strength to body mass that is shown by DBZ, its simply impossible for living organisms so similar to humans that they can breed with us to do 95% of whats shown.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________

    Your whole premise is that since things superman does in the comics cannot happen in the real world you have to write those powers off.

    However, if in that case, Goku simply couldn't exist, He's an alien specie evolved on another planet however is so similar to humans he can breed and have successful children. Modern humans have lost the genes to have functional tails, so that alone makes it impossible at a genetic level for Goku to have kids with a human.

    However since this is a Manga they are aloud to do these things, its not real world. I do agree on a common playing field however you have to put it in a universe that allows them to use the extent of their powers.

    And when they are aloud to use their full range of powers Superman trumps Goku everytime.
    -Superman can fly because he is used to a higher gravity on Krypton. Goku can fly because he pushes his ki off the ground.
    -The existence of Ki has not been disproven.
    -He's not creating something out of nothing. It still obeys the law of conservation of energy and mass. He's using his own ki to create the kamehameha and it weakens him after using it. As for the oozaru, this is due to absorption of brute rays from the moon or a similar energy source (much like superman absorbs energy from the sun) from the tail. The saiyans are a race which get stronger after each fight, hence, their evolutionary process is at an accelerated rate. The large absorption of brute rays increases the rate of mitosis of all cells including epidermal cells that produce hair, myocytes that produce muscle, chondrocytes that produce cartilage. Blood cells and Neurons cannot divide, but since there is an increased production of bone marrow, there is an increased production of blood cells. The number of neurons remain the same and that's why most of the saiyans become stupid when they are oozaru.
    -In DBZ, Goku explained his Shunken Ido move. It is not "teleportation", but just a fast form of transportation. He dematerializes into light (converts his body into energy) and then transports himself into space at the speed of light to get where he needs to be.

    -The anatomy of saiyans is unknown, but it is obvious that they have different characteristics. Different species can breed as long as the genetic material can mix. There is also no proof that a human bred with a saiyan cannot do "95%" bla bla. Don't pull statistics out of your ass.
    -My premise is that things have to make sense and be logical. The authors powered down superman for a reason. If you like over-powered characters that have an infinite power, then you might as well pick "Presence" from DC or "One-Above-All" from Marvel.
    -The reason I read manga is so that I can escape reality and see different posibilites. It doesn't mean that I will agree that 2+2=3 unless you explain to me why or if you have defined a new set of rules.

    Your arguments are still weak and you have not proven why Superman is stronger than Goku.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    *facepalms*
    Your argument is only that Superman does things that are impossible in real life, thus by extension Goku wins(as if any organic organism could dematerialize into light or energy). Your also not trying to prove any of Goku's powers just saying its possible because they can't be disproven(as with the existence of Ki).

    The fact is given the feats the 2 hero's have accomplished Superman over powers Goku.

    And Cross777 you must not know much about Superman, at least shadowfox isn't trying to debate who's done grander things, he's just saying Superman 'can't' do the things he has done because of the laws of physics.

    But like I said... the real life laws of physics don't matter in comic books.
    Going by accomplishments Superman>Goku
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  6. #16
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    *facepalms*
    Your argument is only that Superman does things that are impossible in real life, thus by extension Goku wins(as if any organic organism could dematerialize into light or energy). Your also not trying to prove any of Goku's powers just saying its possible because they can't be disproven(as with the existence of Ki).

    The fact is given the feats the 2 hero's have accomplished Superman over powers Goku.

    And Cross777 you must not know much about Superman, at least shadowfox isn't trying to debate who's done grander things, he's just saying Superman 'can't' do the things he has done because of the laws of physics.

    But like I said... the real life laws of physics don't matter in comic books.
    Going by accomplishments Superman>Goku
    I should be facepalming you, but that's not how I win arguments. This debate is already over. I've already explained you pretty well why Goku>Superman. Yet, you continue to revert to your original argument that the authors made Superman invincible during the pre-Crisis and because he was "once" invincible, he wins. Also, all organisms are made out of energy, so it is not completely impossible to believe if an organism can de-materialize into its constituents. It is impossible to believe that superman can hold a black-hole in his hand when he has 1/billionth the power of it. If you watched DB (original), nobody was aware of Ki in the beginning. This is because none of them were strong enough to be aware of it. Ki is something that can be developed. Even a human like Krillin can become strong and doesn't have to be granted "super-powers" like superman.
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  7. #17
    Ripple User Trilight's Avatar
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    You guys DO know that Goku is based off of Superman, origin backstories in all. Alien baby gets sent to Earth shortly before the destruction of their home planet and grow up to be it's greatest defender, sound familiar. Toriyama just spiced it up by having the Saiyans be a warrior race. You're literally getting America's Greatest hero, vs. Japan's representation of that hero.

    Not to say Goku isn't awesome, seeing as he's got the power to blow up planets and stuff, but Superman is just the galactic epitome of power. That's why kryptonite is such a vice to him, it gives him an actual weakness. Goku just repeatedly gets slammed but comes back from the brink of no return and outlasts the bad guy. I grew up with both these heroes and the clash would be incredibly epic, but Superman is all but omniscient.

    Street-wise Batman gets the job done. His intellect and wealth alone make him a force to be reckoned with, add in his numerous fighting styles and his keen ability to psychologically destroy his opponents and you got one MEAN MOFO. I love me my manga characters as much as the next guy, but Supes and Bat are larger than life entities. Personality wise they're great too, but I'd take a Wolverine or a Spiderman instead, that's just preference and nostalgia talking.

    As long as everything just keeps on flowing forward, then that's already enough.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfox87 View Post
    I should be facepalming you, but that's not how I win arguments. This debate is already over. I've already explained you pretty well why Goku>Superman. Yet, you continue to revert to your original argument that the authors made Superman invincible during the pre-Crisis and because he was "once" invincible, he wins. Also, all organisms are made out of energy, so it is not completely impossible to believe if an organism can de-materialize into its constituents. It is impossible to believe that superman can hold a black-hole in his hand when he has 1/billionth the power of it. If you watched DB (original), nobody was aware of Ki in the beginning. This is because none of them were strong enough to be aware of it. Ki is something that can be developed. Even a human like Krillin can become strong and doesn't have to be granted "super-powers" like superman.
    All you've said is that Superman can't do things because the laws of physics thus Goku wins, some argument.

    And really I didn't even use the most powerful version Superman(Superman Prime), nor have I said anything about the Sword of Superman. So stop trying to write it off as 'once upon a crazy single writer made Superman invisible, so don't use that as the normal'.

    Also your willing to accept that organisms may be able to dematerialize then re-materialize at will, your willing to accept that 'ki' is real even though its a joke made by bronze age chinese philosophers which since its conception has never been proved.

    However your NOT willing to accept in the FICTIONAL world of comics Superman can hold in his hand a black hole or move faster then light speed.
    Give it up and stop being a Goku fanboy
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  9. #19
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trilight View Post
    You guys DO know that Goku is based off of Superman, origin backstories in all. Alien baby gets sent to Earth shortly before the destruction of their home planet and grow up to be it's greatest defender, sound familiar. Toriyama just spiced it up by having the Saiyans be a warrior race. You're literally getting America's Greatest hero, vs. Japan's representation of that hero.

    Not to say Goku isn't awesome, seeing as he's got the power to blow up planets and stuff, but Superman is just the galactic epitome of power. That's why kryptonite is such a vice to him, it gives him an actual weakness. Goku just repeatedly gets slammed but comes back from the brink of no return and outlasts the bad guy. I grew up with both these heroes and the clash would be incredibly epic, but Superman is all but omniscient.

    Street-wise Batman gets the job done. His intellect and wealth alone make him a force to be reckoned with, add in his numerous fighting styles and his keen ability to psychologically destroy his opponents and you got one MEAN MOFO. I love me my manga characters as much as the next guy, but Supes and Bat are larger than life entities. Personality wise they're great too, but I'd take a Wolverine or a Spiderman instead, that's just preference and nostalgia talking.
    Actually Goku is based of a story called, "Journey to the West" which was published in the 1590s. Superman was published in 1932. Akira Toriyama did do a parody of superman though in "Dr. Slump". The name of the character was Suppaman. Also, there are numerous characters that come from other planets. Any story with an alien might as well be a copy of superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    All you've said is that Superman can't do things because the laws of physics thus Goku wins, some argument.

    And really I didn't even use the most powerful version Superman(Superman Prime), nor have I said anything about the Sword of Superman. So stop trying to write it off as 'once upon a crazy single writer made Superman invisible, so don't use that as the normal'.

    Also your willing to accept that organisms may be able to dematerialize then re-materialize at will, your willing to accept that 'ki' is real even though its a joke made by bronze age chinese philosophers which since its conception has never been proved.

    However your NOT willing to accept in the FICTIONAL world of comics Superman can hold in his hand a black hole or move faster then light speed.
    Give it up and stop being a Goku fanboy
    Lol, some argument? Oh boy, maybe you should go back and re-read your posts and then read mine. I am willing to accept any possibility granted there is an explanation for it. Provide me with a reasonable explanation and I will even believe you. The feats of Superman which you use to prove that he is stronger than Goku, I've already proved wrong and illogical based on the rules that the authors of Superman defined.

    Lastly, I will NEVER stop being a goku fanboy.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    You can't use real world physics on manga/comics... It doesn't matter if we're talking about superman/goku or any of the countless others.

    When comparing characters you should only assume the universe they are in does not hinder their full abilities, or whats the point in comparing, meaning in DC universe superman CAN do all of that, it doesn't matter what he can/can't do in our own.
    Same with Goku.. in DBZ universe he can destroy planets with a power (ki) that has never been shown exist in our universe.
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