madara and hashirama

[j-roc]

i was bored and thinking what if madara hijacked hashiramas body and implanted his eyes into it sort of like orochimarus body stealing tech and, let the world think he had been defeated that could be how he married the uchiha and senju traits i mean he does have a penchant for controlling people (mizukage,sasuke, pein, the rest of akatsuki)

kabuto could have edo tenseied his real body and thats why he was so scared?

idk

[Shinhan]

i was bored and thinking what if madara hijacked hashiramas body and implanted his eyes into it sort of like orochimarus body stealing tech and, let the world think he had been defeated that could be how he married the uchiha and senju traits i mean he does have a penchant for controlling people (mizukage,sasuke, pein, the rest of akatsuki)

kabuto could have edo tenseied his real body and thats why he was so scared?

idk

I don't think so.

Sasuke should have said, oh shit its the 1st hokage, when he saw Tobi's face.

[Rokudaime Sennin ™]

Edo Tensei does NOT summon bodies but rather souls which are put into sacrificial bodies. And as for Madara taking over Hashirama's body, nope, not possible, that would mean that he went back to ruling over the konoha village and no1 even noticed his sharingans. I'm sure Hashirama's wife and his granddaughter Tsunade who interacted with him, including Tobirama and Sarutobi would've realized if something was off about Shodai.

And Madara fought Shodaime for his powers, but that doesn't mean that Madara acquired such powers right there and then. Hashirama defeated Madara, that's guaranteed, set in stone. What Madara used to survive the deathblows, we don't yet know, might've been Izanagi. Madara's main goal was to try to defeat Hashirama for his power, but he was incapable of defeating him, so he would've had to retreat. We don't know the circumstances of Hashirama's death, but most likely he died during the 1st ninja world war or prior to that, and most likely Madara was involved in his demise as well. He could've come up with some elaborate plan from the shadows and acquired Hashirama's physical energies during Shodai's death. Whether it was an actual transfer of the physical energies before Hashirama passed away, meaning during his death moment, or if it was dna implanted afterwards in a zetsu cloned body, we don't yet know all of this. But Madara didn't necessarily acquire Hashirama's physical energies right there and then at VOTE. That was the purpose of the vote fight. However he couldv'e done so anytime after that, since every1 thought he was dead already, he was most likely creating wars from the shadows to bring down each hokage.

Even then, I don't think he ever awakened the rinnegan. Just cause of having both physical and spiritual energies of Rikudou, doesn't guarantee a rinnegan awakening. Heavens bestow such power only to noble vessels of such power, when there is a need. Thus Madara's elaborate plan to destroy the whirlpool country, follow one of it's survivors of the uzumaki clan to Amegakure, implant them with his own spiritual energies, then create strife in that child's life, in order for the rinnegan to awaken so he could either manipulate that rinnegan wielder for his own purposes or snatch it later if need be.

Madara is truly a genius.

[Master]

Not possible. Shodai chose his brother to be the 2nd. Madara wouldn't do that.

[EliteKage]

Edo Tensei does NOT summon bodies but rather souls which are put into sacrificial bodies. And as for Madara taking over Hashirama's body, nope, not possible, that would mean that he went back to ruling over the konoha village and no1 even noticed his sharingans. I'm sure Hashirama's wife and his granddaughter Tsunade who interacted with him, including Tobirama and Sarutobi would've realized if something was off about Shodai.

And Madara fought Shodaime for his powers, but that doesn't mean that Madara acquired such powers right there and then. Hashirama defeated Madara, that's guaranteed, set in stone. What Madara used to survive the deathblows, we don't yet know, might've been Izanagi. Madara's main goal was to try to defeat Hashirama for his power, but he was incapable of defeating him, so he would've had to retreat. We don't know the circumstances of Hashirama's death, but most likely he died during the 1st ninja world war or prior to that, and most likely Madara was involved in his demise as well. He could've come up with some elaborate plan from the shadows and acquired Hashirama's physical energies during Shodai's death. Whether it was an actual transfer of the physical energies before Hashirama passed away, meaning during his death moment, or if it was dna implanted afterwards in a zetsu cloned body, we don't yet know all of this. But Madara didn't necessarily acquire Hashirama's physical energies right there and then at VOTE. That was the purpose of the vote fight. However he couldv'e done so anytime after that, since every1 thought he was dead already, he was most likely creating wars from the shadows to bring down each hokage.

Even then, I don't think he ever awakened the rinnegan. Just cause of having both physical and spiritual energies of Rikudou, doesn't guarantee a rinnegan awakening. Heavens bestow such power only to noble vessels of such power, when there is a need. Thus Madara's elaborate plan to destroy the whirlpool country, follow one of it's survivors of the uzumaki clan to Amegakure, implant them with his own spiritual energies, then create strife in that child's life, in order for the rinnegan to awaken so he could either manipulate that rinnegan wielder for his own purposes or snatch it later if need be.

Madara is truly a genius.

Kishimoto is truly a genius.

[Rlinfamous]

This seems like a decent-ish thread for this, but I've been wondering:

If Yamato's Mokuton jutsu responded to Naruto's pure physical energy after Naruto entered Rikudou Mode, do you think there's a chance that the Hashirama life force within Madara will also respond?

I'm sure there will be some way that Kishi portrays Naruto as the "true" heir to the Rikudou/Younger Brother/Senju Will of Fire. Madara has stated that he sees Hashirama alive in Naruto, even if Madara himself absorbed Hashirama's life force... perhaps he doesn't realize how right he is? Also, Madara stated that he, as the person who looked to the future, won over Hashirama in the long run... what if the Will of Fire Hashirama entrusted to the future generations (completed within Naruto) defeats Madara, along with Hashirama's own pure and powerful life force?

Likewise, I'm sure Sasuke is the true heir to the Elder Brother's/Rikudou's spiritual energies, not Madara... whether Sasuke's darkness is simply stronger, or whether he purifies his energies and achieves the level of the Rikudou, I'm certain he will overcome Madara's "Rikudou" strength in that respect, just as Naruto will overcome the physical aspect.

[Raf]

I agree rlinfamous...the way things are going, madara will be out of the picture soon..and the real demi gods, Naruto and Suske, will begin their struggle for overpower. I also think that if the resurrection of jyubi fails, sasuke will take all the beast and then fight naruto..no, scratch that...

[Aga bomBa]

This seems like a decent-ish thread for this, but I've been wondering:

If Yamato's Mokuton jutsu responded to Naruto's pure physical energy after Naruto entered Rikudou Mode, do you think there's a chance that the Hashirama life force within Madara will also respond?

I'm sure there will be some way that Kishi portrays Naruto as the "true" heir to the Rikudou/Younger Brother/Senju Will of Fire. Madara has stated that he sees Hashirama alive in Naruto, even if Madara himself absorbed Hashirama's life force... perhaps he doesn't realize how right he is? Also, Madara stated that he, as the person who looked to the future, won over Hashirama in the long run... what if the Will of Fire Hashirama entrusted to the future generations (completed within Naruto) defeats Madara, along with Hashirama's own pure and powerful life force?

Likewise, I'm sure Sasuke is the true heir to the Elder Brother's/Rikudou's spiritual energies, not Madara... whether Sasuke's darkness is simply stronger, or whether he purifies his energies and achieves the level of the Rikudou, I'm certain he will overcome Madara's "Rikudou" strength in that respect, just as Naruto will overcome the physical aspect.

In what way would it respond? A tree growing out if his knee No seriously, in what way? I don't think so.. I think Naruto's Life Force is gonna be his joker, in the end of the manga. It's gonna provide him the necessary power for a jutsu OR it will save someone / Konoha in the end.

- The Will of Fire is the " Long Run " for Hashirama. It's a natural way of supporting your descendants with the proper motivation for not giving up, protect your friends / family ans strive for Peace / Love. The path of Darkness can never provide their descendants with such a method, because they all strive for their own need and they only fight for themselfs. their " hunger " is power, not love. So yeah; I agree with you..

@ RAF

I agree rlinfamous...the way things are going, madara will be out of the picture soon..and the real demi gods, Naruto and Suske, will begin their struggle for overpower. I also think that if the resurrection of jyubi fails, sasuke will take all the beast and then fight naruto..no, scratch that...

Madara will be out of the picture soon.. ?!?!?! He just came into play m8, what're you talking about? Do you think that Kishi let him corrupt the world, manipulate everyting from the shadows for 60 years, just to bring him in and out of the picture so soon? Hahaha.. No, just No

- Madara hasn't even started yet with his big plan.. step by step, he's coming closer and in the end; he will be the last villain, not sasuke. Madara is the best candidate for the most evil, badass villain. There's no EPIC SCENARIO, when the last villain is gonna get re-deemed (sasuke ). We'll know that he ain't gonna die and that he will be re-deemed ( well, I believe he will.. )

The best ending is someone who can't be re-deemed, who doesn't give a fck about love, peace or hope. Only his own needs, destruction and war.. Madara Uchiha kept the eternal circle of Hatred going on, after Elder Brother's defeat. Sasuke is just a young, little pawn who's consumed by Darkness for what; half / one year max. ( Before he fought against Itachi, he wasn't THAT CONSUMED BY HATRED like he's now.. ). Look how long Madara is consumed by Hatred / Darkness, creating war / loss / pain in the shinobi world with his Darkness? YES, from the day that he got defeated by 1st. Hokage.. he's the real deal.

[Rlinfamous]

In what way would it respond? A tree growing out if his knee No seriously, in what way? I don't think so.. I think Naruto's Life Force is gonna be his joker, in the end of the manga. It's gonna provide him the necessary power for a jutsu OR it will save someone / Konoha in the end.

- The Will of Fire is the " Long Run " for Hashirama. It's a natural way of supporting your descendants with the proper motivation for not giving up, protect your friends / family ans strive for Peace / Love. The path of Darkness can never provide their descendants with such a method, because they all strive for their own need and they only fight for themselfs. their " hunger " is power, not love. So yeah; I agree with you..

Well, it happened to Danzou... I was thinking more along the lines of Madara simply losing control of Hashirama's power, though. He was so quick to mention how Danzou failed, and how he's truly "Uchiha Madara and Senju Hashirama in one being" now. He's really, really getting off on the fact that he acquired the powers of the man he admired and hated so strongly, the one man to defeat him. He claims his perseverance is the true victory over Hashirama, but notice how he still re-lives their battle through Naruto and Sasuke. Who's he trying to prove it to at this point, when everyone who betrayed him or knew him back then is already dead? Himself, and no one else. Hashirama died at peace, Madara lives on in agony.

However he goes down, I want to see something happen with those powers he acquired. They're not his. Just like how so many people want to see Sasuke end up blind somehow, as a sort of poetic justice, I want to see Madara's "victory" over Hashirama stripped from him, in every possible way.

We've seen implanted chakra respond to external stimuli before... Itachi's responded to the sight of Madara's Sharingan, Minato/Kushina's responded to the state of Naruto's/the Kyuubi's seal. We've seen people lose control over an absorbed/transplanted life force, too. Kabuto and Sasuke both struggled to control Orochimaru's (Sasuke failed when he was weakened against Itachi, Kabuto succeeded through training). Danzou failed to control Hashirama's, and all Jinchuuriki struggle to control their tailed beast, to some degree. We've seen powers that one isn't necessarily adapted to take their toll on an individual; Kakashi's Sharingan is an example, Yamato's Mokuton (which pales in comparison to Hashirama's) is another. We've even seen extremely potent chakra prove detrimental when one cannot control it; look at when the Pain body attempted to absorb Naruto's Sage Chakra. Look at the children Oro implanted with Hashirama's power: most died.

Notice how many of the above scenarios involve someone struggling to handle Hashirama's power, specifically! It's not something one can take lightly, even Madara.

I'm mostly pulling random scenarios from my memory, and none of them are exactly like Madara's current control of Hashirama's powers. We don't know the nature of his acquisition, nor the degree of his control, aside from performing Izanagi and presumably being able to handle a transplanted Rinnegan (and perhaps hosting the Jyubi). Hopefully it will become clearer soon.

[Aga bomBa]

Those examples that you have given, is exactly WHY Madara has to control Hashirama's powers completely. After all; Madara was the only one capable of being equal in power ( physical vs. spiritual ) of fighting him. Also the fact that Madara had 60 years, after his defeat at VOTE, for analyzing and controlling Hashirama's powers.

- All of those scenarios had a problem in trying to handle Hashirama's powers and I agree that even Madara can't take it lightly.. but we've to admit, that a genius like him, wouldn't go into battle or try using it, if he wasn't convinced over his fully control over Hashirama's powers.
It seems like that isn't the only thing that he can't take lightly; what about being Juubi's host? so far; Madara seems to be a person who doesn't goes into battle, if he ain't certain of winning. Madara fought Hashirama many times before and never won.. he fought him @ VOTE with having new powers ( EMS ) + Kyuubi next to him AND HE STILL; wasn't convinced of winning. Madara didn't care anymore about his victory, he just planned every detail for staying alive with obtaining his powers and reach a far higher goal. Madara let " time " kill Hashirama and played it very dirty. Also against Minato; he knew that he COULDN'T KILL Minato, but he tried capturing him. After all; his plan with the second kyuubi attack, was executed perfectly. Madara accomplished his mission with his second attack and waited for the outcome ( the massacre, top tier of Konoha accusing Uchiha of that attack, making Konoha vulnerable for outside attacks if Uchiha's coup was executed etc..) Click spoiler:

Spoiler!

Exactly like you said; we don't know the nature of his acquisition, but performing Izanagi, being able to transplant the Rinnegan and trying to be Juubi's host, means that you KNOW what you're doing. Madara had all the time in the world, for gathering all the information he needs, experiment and analyze every little detail.

However he goes down, I want to see something happen with those powers he acquired. They're not his. Just like how so many people want to see Sasuke end up blind somehow, as a sort of poetic justice, I want to see Madara's "victory" over Hashirama stripped from him, in every possible way.

In the end; it will be stripped from him, because he's gonna lose. But I can't see the scenario happening, that he loses his physical energy, lose control over Juubi and bye bye Rinnegan. Hashirama's powers is in his case; the MAJOR KEY for being one step closer for having the necessary power for controlling the Rinnegan + being Juubi Host. Look what was needed for the Kyuubi ( Mito, Kushina and Naruto ),and we know that the Juubi asks more P. Energy then any other Bijuu.. because it's all nine bijuu's in one beast. IF he loses his control or if his P. energy is stripped from him, he will die. Madara will die,.. and that's not the way how the last villain MUST die IMO.

Though I fully understand what you mean,..