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  1. #1

    Naruto Senju + Uchiha = Sage of the 6 paths

    Thanks to this weeks release we are left with as many questions as we have been given answers. quick recap we have been given a glimpse behind the mask of Madara and have found out he has / had two normal sharingan's. We have found out that he didn't just challenge the 1st hokage for the leadership of the leaf but he did it to steal his power. Allowing him to become the second sage of the six paths and that Nagato was the third. We found out that Madara was the one who gave Yahiko the idea to start Akatsuki, and he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan. Also that Nagato was of the Uzumaki clan. And we learned that Madara has the ability to use the perfected izangi jutsu.

    Questions that I have been left with is:
    1) If Madara had stolen 1 st power and became a sage of the six paths, then shouldn't he have at least one eye with the rinnegan? (Seeing as how the rinnegan is the mark and dojutsu of the the sage of the six paths.)
    2) Why would Madara need to take the rinnegan from Nagato if he had one of his own? And if he didn't why would he weaken himself by giving his rinnegan to a child? And the other part is since Nagato is part of the Uzumaki clan which is closely related to the senju by giving Nagato some of Madara's power wouldn't Nagato gain the powers of the Sage of the six paths without the need of an eye transplant, or was the transplant how he gave Nagato the power of the Uchiha?


    Now for my theory, Okay Madara states that for one to gain the power of the sage of the six paths. One must gain full control of both the Uchiha and Senju powers. Now Naruto is part of the Uzumaki clan and the son of the fourth with a large charka pool of his own. He has gain the ability of senju arts with using nature energy. He also has taken control of the nine tail Fox which makes him probably the strongest senju ever, chakra wise. Making him strong enough chakra wise to be able to control an Uchiha's power. Now looking back to when Itachi gave some of his power to Naruto, I think Naruto now has all the pieces to become the fourth Sage of the six paths. A sage to eclipse both Madara and Nagato. Once he unlocks the power that Itachi gave him he may very well activate the rinnegan. Could Itachi be so much of a genius that he could have forseen this possiblity and set out to make the ultimate challenger for Madara? Another piece to my theory is The Uchiha has the Izangi technique that they need the power of the senju to complete and make perfect. I believe the Senju was given the Death God sealing technique, which they need the power of the Uchiha to make complete. So we may very well see a battle between the ultimate opposites one that creates life from nothing (izangi) and the other that turns life into nothingness (shiki Fujin).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Thanks to this weeks release we are left with as many questions as we have been given answers. quick recap we have been given a glimpse behind the mask of Madara and have found out he has / had two normal sharingan's. We have found out that he didn't just challenge the 1st hokage for the leadership of the leaf but he did it to steal his power. Allowing him to become the second sage of the six paths and that Nagato was the third. We found out that Madara was the one who gave Yahiko the idea to start Akatsuki, and he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan. Also that Nagato was of the Uzumaki clan. And we learned that Madara has the ability to use the perfected izangi jutsu.

    Questions that I have been left with is:
    1) If Madara had stolen 1 st power and became a sage of the six paths, then shouldn't he have at least one eye with the rinnegan? (Seeing as how the rinnegan is the mark and dojutsu of the the sage of the six paths.)
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/13

    See here that Madara states that 2 of the 6 paths became one, it is more complicated than just combining those two bloodlines, otherwise he would already have what he seeks. Madara can use Izunagi but there is more to it than that apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    2) Why would Madara need to take the rinnegan from Nagato if he had one of his own? And if he didn't why would he weaken himself by giving his rinnegan to a child? And the other part is since Nagato is part of the Uzumaki clan which is closely related to the senju by giving Nagato some of Madara's power wouldn't Nagato gain the powers of the Sage of the six paths without the need of an eye transplant, or was the transplant how he gave Nagato the power of the Uchiha?
    We still don't know entirely what Madara meant when he said he gave Nagato the Rinnegan, its hard to say whether or not he gave it to him directly or not. Personally, I think that Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan but in order to develop it future, what Nagato had was not the same as what the original Rikudou had. Madara has hinted at the significance of Nagato's lineage, he needed Nagato to have the Rinnegan he likely could not use it himself as it was. Somehow he is rebuilding the bloodline piece by piece but it seems he needs to force that development somehow. Notice he couldn't just take any Senju, he needed Hashirama because he had mastered his bloodline and was the epitomy of his kind.

    Again, I think that it is important to note, the Rinnegan Nagato possessed is not what Madara ultimately seeks, he seeks the power that the Rikudou possessed which goes well beyond merely the Rinnegan we have seen. As this chapter revealed, many of, if not all, of the major bloodlines may have derived from the Rikudou in some shape or form. The Rinnegan Nagato possessed is merely one piece of the broken lineage that the Rikudou left behind. Madara most likely gave the Rinnegan to Nagato because that was how it would best serve him, he needed an Uzumaki with great potential to have it. More than likely Nagato's lineage made him a suitable host for the Rinnegan. For whatever reason it isn't just about having all the parts it seems to be about combining them in a specific manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Now for my theory, Okay Madara states that for one to gain the power of the sage of the six paths. One must gain full control of both the Uchiha and Senju powers.
    The Uchiha and Senju are only 2 parts of the Rikudou's lineage, hence why Madara says 2 of the 6 have become 1. That statement indicates that the Rikudou was more than merely the sum of the Uchiha and Senju, that is not enough, Madara can use Izunagi but clearly he needs more. Madara hasn't completed the process and from what it seems the Rinnegan and Sasuke are essential parts of that process. Madara is gathering the key powers of all of the 6 paths, the powers of Hashirama being 1, the Uchiha being another, the Rinnegan, and Uzumaki bloodline also are parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Now Naruto is part of the Uzumaki clan and the son of the fourth with a large charka pool of his own. He has gain the ability of senju arts with using nature energy. He also has taken control of the nine tail Fox which makes him probably the strongest senju ever, chakra wise. Making him strong enough chakra wise to be able to control an Uchiha's power. Now looking back to when Itachi gave some of his power to Naruto, I think Naruto now has all the pieces to become the fourth Sage of the six paths.
    Madara already has control of the Uchiha, Senju, and now apparently the Uzumaki, those are 3 of the 6 paths. Madara is the ultimate Uchiha, Hashirama was the epitomy of the Senju, and Nagato was probably the epitomy of the Uzumaki. Naruto needs more than merely the Uchiha bloodline. The Rikudou was more than just the possessor of the Rinnegan, Sharingan, Senju, Uzumaki, etc, he is really the founder of it all. That's not to say Naruto won't obtain those powers but I gather it is more complex than him simply gaining the Uchiha bloodline, although that would be a very significant part of the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    A sage to eclipse both Madara and Nagato. Once he unlocks the power that Itachi gave him he may very well activate the rinnegan.
    Madara and Nagato as they were are simply the epitomy of each of their clans, they are significant but by no means comparable to the Rikudou. The thing about Madara is he is basically already on the path to becoming the next Rikudou, perhaps even a more powerful version since he is assimilating bloodlines that may have evolved. My guess is that Naruto will in some form reunite the bloodlines, as the shattered lineage and the hatred between the various clans is an underlining problem that he must solve. Naruto uniting the bloodline within himself would certainly create a better opportunity for him to guide the war torn world into some form of unity. In short, I think you have some semblance of where the story is going, idea of how it will be concieved just seems a little over simplified from what has been indicated within the manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Could Itachi be so much of a genius that he could have forseen this possiblity and set out to make the ultimate challenger for Madara?
    It is certainly possible that Itachi did forsee Naruto as being the ultimate challenger for Madara but its hard to say how much he anticipated specifically, Itachi seemed more aware than even Madara anticipated. Itachi obviously entrusted his power to Naruto for a reason, he doesn't seem to be the type who would pass off that type of responsibility without cause and if you look back at the series Itachi seems to have been testing Naruto from the start. What exactly he had in mind though is a little harder to determine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Another piece to my theory is The Uchiha has the Izangi technique that they need the power of the senju to complete and make perfect. I believe the Senju was given the Death God sealing technique, which they need the power of the Uchiha to make complete.
    That's a possibility. The question would be though, how would Naruto use it since Minato has already said that it cannot be used by Jinnchuuriki, do you think he will purge himself of the Kyuubi. Its really early to call this one, I have yet to see any significant connection between Izanagi and the dead demon seal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    So we may very well see a battle between the ultimate opposites one that creates life from nothing (izangi) and the other that turns life into nothingness (shiki Fujin).
    Again, certainly possible, although I really don't see how it would come about just yet considering Naruto doesn't know the dead demon seal and even if he did he wouldn't be able to use it unless he were to lose the 9-tails. On top of that the Dead Demon Seal couldn't even seal the entire 9-tails so I really don't see how it would be able to deal with the Juubi or a Juubi jinchuuriki Madara should it ever come to that.

  3. #3
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    The rinnegan forms naturally form divine intervention from the gods. It not important who these gods are, why they do it, at least for now. Maybe if the juubi's reborn kishi might have a reason to go into it. Something cliche like the juubi was a god and was rejected by the other gods and started reeking havoc and the gods choose a hero among mankind to save the world and gave him the rinnegan. Something like the relationship between zues and hades, but again not important at this stage. Tell you what though juubi being a god would be a good reason as to why the s06P couldn't killed it.

    There's one thing that is clear before chapter 510 even came out.

    So6P elder son + So6P younger son = Complete sage of six path's power
    That includes:
    -So6p's Physical energy/life energy (same thing whatever you prefer)
    -So6p's Spiritual energy
    -So6p's chakra
    -So6p's body
    -So6p's eyes(rinnegan, NOTE this)

    Now lets look at what the senju and uchiha inherited from that list. Now remember senju and uchiha are DECEDENTS of the So6P's sons that means the blood that runs through these clans are NOT the same blood of the respective so6P sons.Throughout the centuries the blood was thinned out, which is the reason why the rinnegan itself wasn't passed down to the uchiha keeping true to the fact the rinnegan can only be formed by divine intervention.

    Madara so far has every comparable(remember blood was thinned) version of the things on that list but one. The rinnegan itself, that's why he stole nagato's rinnegan that was clearly awoken on his terms.

    As for the statement he "gave" the rinnegan that was ploy to get konan to think about the nagato and therefore his location to read her mind which is either a yang or yin technique. Nagato could do the same with his rinnegan and the yamanaka clan also are good at this too.

    So the senju + uchiha isn't a full representation of the so6P, only the two sons would be the closest to the real thing. This also implies when madara gets battle ready we will finally see what kind techs the sage of 6 paths could do in this time but he won't be as strong. All the more reason for Naruto to show him hows it done with his toad sage mode.
    Last edited by psukkar; 09-17-2010 at 12:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Sinners blessed hand Raf's Avatar
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    Okey people, we can say now that the 3 paths of the 6 are Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki...let's guess what are the other paths

    my choice is that Kyubi is one of them

    okey, I've got a lot form all the post above, but I have a question, which clan is Minato, and ih Minato is Senju, and if the Itachis gift is the power of Uchiha(which I doubt), does that mean that Naruto has the 3 paths of 6, or maybe even 4 since he has the Kyubi in him?
    Last edited by Raf; 09-17-2010 at 12:34 PM. Reason: had a toilet inspiration!
    Ona sanja da sam oprao ruke,
    Da sam obrijan, da sam lep.
    Toplo je na jastuku,
    u polusnu.

    Mirise na dorucak.
    Prijatan glas iz druge sobe se javlja,
    Kaze da je pocelo.
    Kaze da je pocelo.
    Idemo!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post

    Questions that I have been left with is:
    1) If Madara had stolen 1 st power and became a sage of the six paths, then shouldn't he have at least one eye with the rinnegan? (Seeing as how the rinnegan is the mark and dojutsu of the the sage of the six paths.)
    Madara must of had the Rinngean for Nagato to be the third wielder but something happened to it, like the 1st taking the kyubbi away from Madara. It has to be something about the sage's chakra or 'the kyubbi's chakra glowing mode' that Naruto did and not just having senjutsu and uchiha DNA because Danzo would of had the Rinnegan as well.

    2) Why would Madara need to take the rinnegan from Nagato if he had one of his own? And if he didn't why would he weaken himself by giving his rinnegan to a child? And the other part is since Nagato is part of the Uzumaki clan which is closely related to the senju by giving Nagato some of Madara's power wouldn't Nagato gain the powers of the Sage of the six paths without the need of an eye transplant, or was the transplant how he gave Nagato the power of the Uchiha?
    IMO, I think what Madara meant was that he made the world go into war to get the Rinngean. Remember that is what Jiirya said was the prerequisite for obtaining the Rinnegan, that there is a time of struggle...someone back me up on this, Im not too sure if I imagined it or what.

    Unless of course Madara teleported into Chibi Nagato's room and transplanted the Rinnegan into him and wipe the whole incident out of his mind..


    Now for my theory, Okay Madara states that for one to gain the power of the sage of the six paths. One must gain full control of both the Uchiha and Senju powers. Now Naruto is part of the Uzumaki clan and the son of the fourth with a large charka pool of his own. He has gain the ability of senju arts with using nature energy. He also has taken control of the nine tail Fox which makes him probably the strongest senju ever, chakra wise. Making him strong enough chakra wise to be able to control an Uchiha's power. Now looking back to when Itachi gave some of his power to Naruto, I think Naruto now has all the pieces to become the fourth Sage of the six paths. A sage to eclipse both Madara and Nagato. Once he unlocks the power that Itachi gave him he may very well activate the rinnegan. Could Itachi be so much of a genius that he could have forseen this possiblity and set out to make the ultimate challenger for Madara? Another piece to my theory is The Uchiha has the Izangi technique that they need the power of the senju to complete and make perfect. I believe the Senju was given the Death God sealing technique, which they need the power of the Uchiha to make complete. So we may very well see a battle between the ultimate opposites one that creates life from nothing (izangi) and the other that turns life into nothingness (shiki Fujin).
    Yeah, I'll laugh when Naruto gains the Rinnegan and the legend of Gameboy is right yet again.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    It may be raf.

    But if the first translation is wrong then that doesn't matter anymore but then you would think "why?" and "when?" was he named the sage of the six paths.

    If he was named long after his death it could mean that he represented a unification of the 6 things/powers (4 bloods, tool of heaven, power of demon).

    But we still don't really know what his name mean.

  7. #7
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raf View Post
    Okey people, we can say now that the 3 paths of the 6 are Uchiha, Senju and Uzumaki...let's guess what are the other paths

    my choice is that Kyubi is one of them

    okey, I've got a lot form all the post above, but I have a question, which clan is Minato, and ih Minato is Senju, and if the Itachis gift is the power of Uchiha(which I doubt), does that mean that Naruto has the 3 paths of 6, or maybe even 4 since he has the Kyubi in him?
    This what madara said about himself proclaiming he has the power of the sage of 6 paths.

    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/81065970/13
    Madara implied the two halves(uchiha and senju) are now one. Not who was what path.


    This what Madara said about nagato.
    (Naruto 510 - Read Online at Manga Stream)

    Madara : "You are the third of the sageS of sixth paths"

    You see that S that's plural for sage, this refereeing to the fact there have been more than ONE sage of 6 paths in the past. He not talking whos what path.


    The sage is the first one.
    Madara is the second.
    Nagato is the third.

    The reason why the sage of 6 paths is called that is still not confirmed but it most likely has something to with 4 nature chakra manipulations and the 2 Yin-Yang(light-dark) chakra manipulations that he first discovered along with chakra and therefore ninjutsu as we know it.

    Narutobase translation has been getting some small things wrong in the past 3 chapters. Its a good idea to check both(narutobase and mangastream) sites to see if there are any conflictions.

  8. #8
    For all those that said he has two parts of the sage of the six paths, at first I originally thought that was the case but after some thought and rereading the chapter a couple times I was lead to believe otherwise. Not only did Madara say fully controlling the powers of the Uchiha and senju made you a sage of the 6 paths but Konan also said it. If you remember pervy sage said that Rikido was called the sage of the six paths because he was able to use all six elemental affinties. Not because he controlled six different bloodlines. The Sage of the six paths was said to have used Izangi to create not only life but all forms of ninjitsu.
    So where back to were Madara sayings he was the second sage of the six paths and Nagato being the third (remember Nagato was a member of the uzumaki clan and didn't have a tailed beast nor as child did take control of any other bloodlines hell he didn't even know ninjitsu when he first activated the rinnegan.). Which means Madara achieved the level of the sage of six paths. Minus the power of the jubii, by only controlling the powers of senju and uchiha. The satement that 2 of the 6 paths become one I have seen translated differently as the two bloodlines have become one in me. Just as he said the two bloodlines where one in the rikduo sage. We have multiple lines of commentary stating all you need is the full control of the bloodlines of both senju and and uchiha to became a sage, but only one line that may have been miss translated stating there is more needing to be done to become a sage. But at this point kishi may very well make things more complicated so anyones guess could be right, but I'll still stick to what we can now prove. Okay maybe because of the bloodline thinning over the generations might explain why Madara needed to steal the rinnegan from Nagato buth then he couldn't claim he bacame a sage because to become the sage of the six paths you need to possess the rinnegan. It is the make of 6 path sage. So was he lying or does he have the eyes stored on his shelf in his base? Your guess is as good as mine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    For all those that said he has two parts of the sage of the six paths, at first I originally thought that was the case but after some thought and rereading the chapter a couple times I was lead to believe otherwise. Not only did Madara say fully controlling the powers of the Uchiha and senju made you a sage of the 6 paths but Konan also said it. If you remember pervy sage said that Rikido was called the sage of the six paths because he was able to use all six elemental affinties.
    There are likely different definitions within the context of the Naruto universe though. Most characters are unaware of the original Rikudou, they know almost nothing about him. Nagato's six bodies were also refered to as the 6 paths but that does not make him the same as the original Rikudou. Madara basically stated out right that the Uchiha and Senju are only 2 of the 6 paths. The Rikudou has not been recreated. Nagato had the Rinnegan but as this chapter made clear, he was not the same as Rikudou by a long shot. To say that he is 'a' Sage of 6 paths may be true to a certain extent but he does not possess the 6 paths of the original Rikudou. The word 'Sage' is thrown around a lot in Naruto but it doesn't always hold the same meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Not because he controlled six different bloodlines. The Sage of the six paths was said to have used Izangi to create not only life but all forms of ninjitsu.
    So where back to were Madara sayings he was the second sage of the six paths and Nagato being the third (remember Nagato was a member of the uzumaki clan and didn't have a tailed beast nor as child did take control of any other bloodlines hell he didn't even know ninjitsu when he first activated the rinnegan.). Which means Madara achieved the level of the sage of six paths.
    That's just it though, Madara uses the word in 2 different contexts within this chapter. As we have seen though he has not obtained what he was after in terms of recreating the bloodline. It has been hinted that the Senju and Uchiha are not the only successors of the Rikudou, it is more than likely that the bloodline fractured that is why the Uzumaki possess traits that were said to be held by the younger son of the original Rikudou, ie, long life, an ability to surpress Bijuu to a degree. If that is true of the younger son's bloodline I would not doubt that the same is very much true of the Elder son's and Madara saying that 2 of the 6 paths have become 1 is just one example of that. He still only has a very limited grasp of the true Rikudou's power. As I have said, if Nagato was the same as the Rikudou, Madara wouldn't need to combine the bloodlines and claim the Rinnegan all he would have needed would be one or the other yet that is not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    Minus the power of the jubii, by only controlling the powers of senju and uchiha. The satement that 2 of the 6 paths become one I have seen translated differently as the two bloodlines have become one in me. Just as he said the two bloodlines where one in the rikduo sage. We have multiple lines of commentary stating all you need is the full control of the bloodlines of both senju and and uchiha to became a sage, but only one line that may have been miss translated stating there is more needing to be done to become a sage.
    The Senju and Uchiha were one in the sage but that doesn't mean they are the sum of all that he passed down. As I mentioned previously, we have already seen that the Uzumaki clan bears a great deal of resemblence to the younger son, strong life force, high stamina, etc. They also have a stronger ability to control the Bijuu which implies that they too are decendents of the Rikudou. The original 6 paths of the Rikudou are the bloodlines he left behind, that is how I understand it at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da_DarkJubii View Post
    But at this point kishi may very well make things more complicated so anyones guess could be right, but I'll still stick to what we can now prove. Okay maybe because of the bloodline thinning over the generations might explain why Madara needed to steal the rinnegan from Nagato buth then he couldn't claim he bacame a sage because to become the sage of the six paths you need to possess the rinnegan. It is the make of 6 path sage. So was he lying or does he have the eyes stored on his shelf in his base? Your guess is as good as mine.
    Once again, the Rinnegan that Nagato possessed is not the same as what the Rikudou had, it is a weaker version apparently. As we have seen what the Rikudou possessed seems to have been closer to a combination of the Rinnegan we have seen and the sharingan, yet with even more abilities than either. The databook also implied that Nagato's Rinnegan was not the same as the original of the Rikudou because it stated that the abilities Nagato used were just the beginning of the Rinnegan's powers. Personally, I think that the reason Nagato's rinnegan was not the same is because he did not possess the 6 paths (bloodlines) of the original Rikudou. Madara needed to give the Rinnegan to Nagato to bring it one step futher to completion. He himself has 2 of the 6 path, the Uzumaki being another path make it 3.

    Just as the Juubi's power was split into many parts, I think that the Rikudou's blood line was also divided into the 6 paths and just like the Juubi the Rikudou's bloodlines must be rejoined to access his true power. For both it is not simply a case of bringing the parts together, they need to be joined through special circumstances. I think that Madara was able to develop a form of the Rinnegan but it was not the original in order to bring it closer to completion he needed to unit it with the 6 paths. Having the Rinnegan does not equate to having the 6 paths of the Rikudou, the rinnegan more than likely must be joined with someone who possesses the 6 paths before it can reach its full power (this is why we see that the everlasting Tsukiyomi looks like the eyes that Rikudou possessed, the eye that appeared on the Juubi, etc.)

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