My hypothesis; Isshin was the first wielder of the final Getsuga

**jacki183** · 09-16-2010, 03:03 AM

Facts we should consider

-Isshin revealed to Ichigo of the existence of the final Getsuga

-Using the final Getsuga will cause the loss of one's shinigami powers

-Ryūken Ishida father of Uryū Ishida once stated, 'So your shinigami powers have returned' to Isshin (paraphrased)

Having analysed these three points, it would SUGGEST (requiring further validation) that Isshin had once used the final getsuga, lost his shinigami powers for x years and recovered them somehow...

For further arcs of bleach to continue, Ichigo MUST regain his shinigami powers if he does in fact loses them in the up coming weeks. In parallel, Isshin was able to regain his powers in an analogous fashion IF in fact he had lost them using the final getsuga.

OR

Isshin lost his shinigami powers in a totally different way, leaving my hypothesis and this post completely redundant.

What do you think?

**Master** · 09-16-2010, 03:09 AM

I thought of the same thing after reading 420. It'd be pretty lame if that WASN'T the reason behind Isshin's power loss.

**ChaosMaster** · 09-16-2010, 03:16 AM

I initially thought that Isshin lost his powers through wanting the destroy the hyougoku, the same way that Rukia was losing her powers when Urahara gave her that fake Giga.

But with this new development I guess your theory makes sense. However, Ichigo said he'll lose all his shimigami powers, must that mean he'll return to being a human? If that's the case, then does that mean you have to be a human to reach this level? Then is Isshin just a regular human? If he is then he can't be from squad zero. This latest predicament has countered every theory we've thought of.

Then again, Ichigo had no reiatsu even before he use the final getsuga. Maybe he can't return to his shimigami form, but he can reach another form, the form he was in before, that is between human, shimigami and hollow yet neither.

Also, considering how strong Isshin is, what could have forced him to use the final getsuga?

**fabiotoy** · 09-16-2010, 03:54 AM

We can´t confirm that Isshin was the first to use Final Getsuga. Probably Isshin lost his powers in a battle against some powerfull hollow ( probably an arc). In that time maybe he was a member of Squad Zero and because he lost his powers, he was ina mission, he had to leave, expeled, to human world, some time before he met Ichigo´s mother.
Or, he was and old member of Soul Society, a member of a royal family, that was older then Aizen or an other member of 13 Gottei.

**Chaos Shepherd** · 09-16-2010, 04:52 AM

Well, isshin and aizen knew each other.. I wouldnt be surprised if aizen was the reason he used FGT.. I dunno if thatd be my favorite choice, though... Although, urahara prolly told isshin about aizen, and aizen is omniscience.. so maybe they didnt actually know each other as well as i thought.. :-/ And actually, looking back, they didnt seem to know each other as well as i thought.. maybe only knew of each other.. so it seems like it is unlikely that it was aizen that caused him to use FGT.. if he did use it.. which id say is pretty likely as he knows what it is and he did lose his powers.. i think it was mentioned that he lost them for 20 years.. not quite sure though..

And something came to mind while looking back in chapter 398..

Spoiler!

Aizen says "Opening the distance...? Wise tact ...lineage, is it?" He isnt saying its a wise tact because of his lineage, is he? (this is when isshin took ichigo and hides with him when he first shows up..) Id assume that he is saying that it was a smart decision and then also saying that it was a family member of ichigo.. but he knew of ichigo the day he was born, so hed know isshin then, wouldnt he?.. so why would he wonder if that is his family? I wonder if there is another translation which is clearer.. I mean, he knew isshins name.. so he at least knew of him.. Id guess he also knew what he looked like.. so why ask if it was him family member? :-/

Sometimes i just overthink things too much, huh...

**SquadZero** · 09-16-2010, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by ChaosMaster

But with this new development I guess your theory makes sense. However, Ichigo said he'll lose all his shimigami powers, must that mean he'll return to being a human? If that's the case, then does that mean you have to be a human to reach this level? Then is Isshin just a regular human? If he is then he can't be from squad zero. This latest predicament has countered every theory we've thought of.

I don't think that is necessarily true. We have seen another instance of a shinigami losing their powers in the case of Rukia. So it follows that a shiniami soul can lose their powers and not have previously been a human soul.

But to attain the same power level as Ichigo I do think it is necessary to be part human, so while yes, Isshin can and has probably used FGT, he was not on the same scale of power as Ichigo is currently on. I would be the same as if current Ichigo and Isshin both performed a normal getsuga tensho, of course Ichigo's would be way more powerful.

I think a lot of people are getting confused because they assume that Ichigo's massive increase in power is due solely to him attaining the FGT. I don't believe this is totally true, I think that in the process of attaining FGT, Ichigo has also evolved into a more "perfect" transcendental by the continuous months of fighting TZG while at the same time understanding him more and totally accepting his powers.

Basically what I am saying is that no, Isshin is not a regular human.

**LeaT** · 09-16-2010, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Chaos Shepherd

Well, isshin and aizen knew each other.. I wouldnt be surprised if aizen was the reason he used FGT.. I dunno if thatd be my favorite choice, though... Although, urahara prolly told isshin about aizen, and aizen is omniscience.. so maybe they didnt actually know each other as well as i thought.. :-/ And actually, looking back, they didnt seem to know each other as well as i thought.. maybe only knew of each other.. so it seems like it is unlikely that it was aizen that caused him to use FGT.. if he did use it.. which id say is pretty likely as he knows what it is and he did lose his powers.. i think it was mentioned that he lost them for 20 years.. not quite sure though..

And something came to mind while looking back in chapter 398..

Spoiler!

Aizen says "Opening the distance...? Wise tact ...lineage, is it?" He isnt saying its a wise tact because of his lineage, is he? (this is when isshin took ichigo and hides with him when he first shows up..) Id assume that he is saying that it was a smart decision and then also saying that it was a family member of ichigo.. but he knew of ichigo the day he was born, so hed know isshin then, wouldnt he?.. so why would he wonder if that is his family? I wonder if there is another translation which is clearer.. I mean, he knew isshins name.. so he at least knew of him.. Id guess he also knew what he looked like.. so why ask if it was him family member? :-/

Sometimes i just overthink things too much, huh...

Aizen seemed to refer to the fact that Isshin was trying to protect his lineage: aka Ichigo, as Isshin knew that he couldn't fight with Ichigo around, and he also knew that Aizen surpassed both him and Ichigo's strength together, so the best solution at that point was in fact to hide Ichigo. Especially since they kind of relied on Ichigo to ultimately be able to defeat Aizen, and they must both survive if the sole purpose of him showing up at that moment was to teach TFG.

And what SquadZero said, they just revert into powerless shinigami souls.

**dragonfang** · 09-16-2010, 05:34 PM

this is kinda stating the obvious if you ask me

**Chaos Shepherd** · 09-16-2010, 08:53 PM

Ah, thats what i was thinking too, but it seemed like it was missing a word or two.. :-/

I kinda wonder why isshin never even released.. He needed to.. But i wonder if it was more that he couldnt.. He lost his powers and they just returned.. So i wonder if his zanpakuto is sleeping or something.... or if that is what he lost.. :-/ Although he used a getsuga.. but that skills seems like you wouldnt have to have a zanpakuto awake/there to use it.. I mean, he used it in his unreleased state, didnt he? Isnt that more or less proof that he wasnt using his zanpakutos powers?