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  1. #1
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    Naruto Your Theories on why Aizen can't sense Ichigo's reiatsu/Zangetsu's "new form" name

    Here guys you get 2 threads for the price of one. Anywho:

    1. The purpose of Ichigo's trial within him self was to fight and conquer both of his inherent energies. Hollow, and shinigami. Since he's here now, we can deduce that he conquered both of those 2 aspects when they were in their combined form. The result? I think he has achieved perfect equilibrium with those primal energies. Whereas before, his power was unstable and all over the place in disharmony with one another.

    Because of this equilibrium, these naturally opposite energies "cancel" each others nature out. Like how equal amounts of a base and an acid in a solution neutralize each other. Thus with this new neutralized energy has no perceptible energy signature. This must be a new experience for Aizen. I don't think anyone in the history of SS has achieved the kind of harmony Ichigo has with his hollow and shinigami zanpakuto. It is a practice that is punishable by law in SS or so I think. This is why I think Ichigo is unique, in that he isn't constricted to the boundaries of SS law, and this is a special case where SS needs all the help they can get.

    2. The other possibility is that both powers(shingami and hollow) combined to form a totally new type of reiatsu. This can also be a corollary to the above theory if the above turns out to be true.

    Now to discuss Ichigo's new zanpakuto form:

    Going back to what I said about Ichigo conquering both his shinigami, and hollow forms combined, I think this applies to his Bankai and hollow form. What I think Ichigo has isn't just a bankai, but some hybrid of that and ressurecion. If this is true, and his hollow powers are unlocked in this form, it probably means he doesn't need a mask anymore unless there are more advanced levels of this transformation that change his appearance to resemble a hollow.

    The latter is likely the case because true ressurecion usually come with a hollow hole in the chest. But who knows this is a new Ichigo, the rules of Bleach may not apply to him anymore.

    Lets also remember that with a new type of reiatsu, come entirely new techniques. We've seen that when you change the nature of your reiatsu, you can use different variations of the same technique. Sonid and flash step for example. If indeed, Ichigo has some new type of reiatsu, his techniques will change as well. We've already seen he has such improved spiritual perception, he can sense people some distance away form him now. This just further goes to indicate the level of control he has over his reiatsu.

    Anyway I know that was a long ass wall of text but I tried to make it as legible as possible.
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  2. #2
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    could you make the title more longer?

  3. #3
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    I actually had more to add to it. And plus you know what they say about threads with long titles

    Anyway give me your point of view please.
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    Damn, i just typed a little bit about that in my wall of text in the prediction thread.. but i guess ill put it in here, too.

    I like yours a lot, actually, as they are more in depth and whatnot.

    Mine was pretty much that he had to learn high reiastu control which helped him, (dragos actually said it first, something along those lines anyway, this first part anyway) and that with "calmness" or something ichigo can suppress his reiatsu. Its been used before though, but meh.. Itd make sense, at least. I really only thought of it because tensa zangetsu and ichigos calm looking eyes and expressions..

    *Edit* Ah, i forgot to add that it would make sense if ichigo could use his reiatsu in bursts because of his great reiatsu control now. I mean, he used to leak it out all the time, so the control would be huge, but think of he closed it, and opens it completely for a few seconds then closes it completely.. Noone would be able to sense his reiatsu when its completely closed.. Its a bit different then the calm theory, but they can easily go hand in hand.. :-/

    About your second one, it doesnt make sense to me as to why tatsuki, aizen, and gin couldnt sense his reiatsu.. I mean, its still reiatsu.. 2 great fighters can generally sense the other's strength..

    With the first one though, it definitely could work. Although, hes in bankai, so it seems to me that he is using his shinigami powers more.. wouldnt he have to have his mask on seeing as he is in bankai? Wouldnt it disrupt the balance not having it? Because it looks as though he is using shinigami powers more right now.. Although look can be deceiving, especially because itd be whats happening on the inside... But itd be interesting that ichigo got his hollow version to cooperate with him, makes me wanna see the training even more if this is the reason why. O.o

    I like your theories, they both are could definitely work. Although, for some reason i think mine is more likely. Im guessing its cause i came up with it.. It just seems more plausible to me.. lol But i actually like yours more, im guessing its because they are more unique to bleach.
    Last edited by Chaos Shepherd; 08-26-2010 at 02:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I actually thought along the same lines, but I ran into difficulties with the idea.

    For the Shinigami and the hollow reiatsu to Cancel out the Sum would have to be Zero = No Power.

    If they combined to become a new type of energy, How does that Make the energy to Rival Aizen powered by Hougyouku?

    Zangetsu Shinigami at Max + Hollow Ichigo Level 2 Should still Not Equal Aizen.

    I mean the Idea is feasible but it doesn't explain everything.


    At this point I am Guessing that Ichigo's Final Getsuga is some Kind of Reiatsu Swallowing Void, like a Blackhole, so it cannot be detected. Ichigo himself can still somehow use all or some of the power trapped within the Void without leaking any of it out.

    Ichigo can defeat Aizen because even Aizen powered by HGQ can't deaft a cosmic black hole.

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  6. #6
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Chaos. The second theory can be a result of the first one. Since the 2 energies neutralize each other, a new one is formed as a result of this equilibrium(see base/acid analogy). Its perceptibility may be marred by the fact that its energy signature is 0 instead of +1 or -1.

    Also the calmness of Ichigo that you and Dragos mention can also be tied into this. It can be a symbol for what he's achieved. His state of mind seems clear, concise, at equilibrium within himself. That can figuratively represent what I'm saying about his reiatsu.

    Thanks for your thoughts too Paulbee.

    I didn't really mean cancel out the power, just its specific nature/affinity. I think a combination of his full hollow and shinigami powers is enough to potentially defeat Aizen because I don't think that type of balance has ever been achieved before. Therefore the possibilities of that combination may be great.

    I just thought about this though. Remember how Urahara was explaining how raitsu must constantly be vented out of the body to prevent build up? Thus other peoples reiatsu becomes detectable because it is pouring out from them .Well if hollow and shinigami reiatsu oppose each other, what if having them at equal amounts at equilibrium, eliminates that need to constantly release reiatsu?

    Also did anyone mention the similarity to Aizen's cocoon form where his reiatsu was undetectable?
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  7. #7
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    Well, drago said that noone could sense his reiatsu because he learned to control it perfectly. I kinda just took that into my theory to make it work better.

    Also, the calmness look could explain the equilibrium. A big question here though. Why would tensa zangestu have the calm look? He has no hollow powers, so nothing to balance. :-/ But its definitely a good theory. Kubo could easily make it work.

    Ah, i edited my first post to put something that i forgot from the predictions thread. Its actually kinda about the leaking out reiatsu part you put, dunno if you saw it or not.

    But wait, i thought aizens reiatsu could be detected.. I thought isshin had asked ichigo whether he understood it or not. But now i wonder if it was unable to be detected in cocoon state or not because someone said the same thing in predictions thread. Maybe i forgot about it and just presumed that he was talking about isshin's question. Isshin looked really surprised when ichigo said no, i believe. I might try to look through some of the decide chapters to clear it up later. >.>

  8. #8
    Senior Member SquadZero's Avatar
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    I like you theory steve about equallibrium between the two sides, or paulbee's theory of the hollow + shinigami reiatsu = zero both make a lot of sense. Here is my thoughts from the discuss/prediction page:

    My instinct on Ichigo's new power tells me it has something to do with Zangetsu's own powers, wherein Bankai he compressed all his massive reiatsu into making him faster, I think this new transformation takes it up another level, he compresses/controls his reitasu so much that you can't even sense it in Ichigo and he is even faster/stronger than before. I'm sure there is more to it than that(final getsuga), but we will just have to see what Kubo has for us.

  9. #9
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquadZero View Post
    I like you theory steve about equallibrium between the two sides, or paulbee's theory of the hollow + shinigami reiatsu = zero both make a lot of sense. Here is my thoughts from the discuss/prediction page:

    My instinct on Ichigo's new power tells me it has something to do with Zangetsu's own powers, wherein Bankai he compressed all his massive reiatsu into making him faster, I think this new transformation takes it up another level, he compresses/controls his reitasu so much that you can't even sense it in Ichigo and he is even faster/stronger than before. I'm sure there is more to it than that(final getsuga), but we will just have to see what Kubo has for us.
    Wow excellent idea. I didn't even remember that his bankai was formed like that. Kind of goes hand in hand with the notion of conquering, and controlling both hollow and shinigami reitsu perfectly.

    @ Chaos.

    Good question. I think it has more to do with Ichigo. Zangetsu is just a representation, a reflection of Ichigo's soul. Yet Ichigo until now it seems, hasn't exactly grasped that side of his soul completely because of his hollow's interference. The balance is in Ichigo learning to control his emotions and eliminating the weakness from his heart(zangetsu) and using his resolve to strike down his fears(hollow). There can be many interpretations on that but that was just from the top of my head. Point is, Ichigo was not in equilibrium within himself, therefore his power wasn't in equilibrium.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquadZero View Post
    I like you theory steve about equallibrium between the two sides, or paulbee's theory of the hollow + shinigami reiatsu = zero both make a lot of sense. Here is my thoughts from the discuss/prediction page:

    My instinct on Ichigo's new power tells me it has something to do with Zangetsu's own powers, wherein Bankai he compressed all his massive reiatsu into making him faster, I think this new transformation takes it up another level, he compresses/controls his reitasu so much that you can't even sense it in Ichigo and he is even faster/stronger than before. I'm sure there is more to it than that(final getsuga), but we will just have to see what Kubo has for us.
    Hmm... That seems a lot like my theory :-p.. I mean, you used compress instead of closed.. possibly a better word. Although your train of thought seems a lot differently. You were going with what his bankai was.. While i was saying he was just closing off his reiatsu, which is pretty much compressing, although mine has releasing it while yours stays compressed.

    Yours would be pretty much like hes letting all of his reiatsu out at once still, but compresses it in his body perfectly. While mine is he actually closes the tap, then releases all at once when he wants to. Both require perfect control. Although, i admit yours is much better. Plus, its more plausible seeing as its what his bankai originally does.

    I like yours better.. I wished i had thought of that >.< You've got the whole idea of his bankai backed into yours... Plus, noone ever sensed his reiatsu, so for him to open the tap, people would sense it. But if it was already open and they couldnt sense it.. yeah, yours is much better on that part. That was the biggest flaw (i had thought, anyway) in my theory.

    @steve, yours would actually be pretty good for later on. Itd give kubo a chance to make ichigo weaker, so he doesnt have to completely escalate the power of everyone... Ichigo could have another internal struggle, and hed be a lot weaker then. Then once he sorts it all because his friends are in trouble, hed be uber strong again. Although, i dont really like how itd make ichigo totally emo... :(

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