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  1. #61
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    theory

    i had to join in on this discussion though I'm a n00b as most would call me.

    to me it seems that the dangers of the eight gate chakra manipulation goes into effect when "gai/lee" releases the chakra itself in the different gates (whether lotus peacock or tiger.) i do believe gai knows and most likely has opened all eight gates but hasn't released the energy associated with the eight gate itself. basically it could be like pouring out your essence (just because you open a bottle does not necessarily mean its contents will spill out and the gate itself is a cap.)

    once again its just my outlook on the gated seeing as the after effects become more strenuous on the user the higher it goes and the eight may be the users actual life force in the attack (someone speculated its name to be like midnight tortoise.)

    logically speaking the gate being opened is opening the user the potential to that form of energy (yes there will be strain from opening any of the gates but that's where muscle memory comes in.) i believe its the usage of the technique to release said energy that makes the difference. once again just my personal opinion to this lovely debate.

  2. #62
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    aye, that makes a lot of sense, and it is similar to my own vision of how the gates works, as what it basically does is release or make you capable of releasing all your chakra through your body, enhancing all your body's traits to the max possible achieved, and as you say, you can still open it but you dont have to release the chakra and once you release all the chakra gates you unleash all your chakra which is why gai would have died from it.

  3. #63
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    aww, you cant come up with any proper arguements against mine so you reduce yourself to some1 like this, claiming i have no common sense and then use a stupid analogy that is utterly pointless and have nothing to do with the discussion and no, none of those things you mention have anything to do with this discussion. now if you had said something along the lines of "how naruto could know he could use the shadow clone jutsu when he had never used it b4" then you would have had a point instead you just dont and what you say have nothing to do with the discussion here.

    You are dumb as dirt, dude. I was explaining that gai and minato knew they could pull off the moves because they operate on a special confidence attributed to gutsy characters in countless stories. It directly relates to the discussion because psular was not approaching the issue he raised correcly. His approach might presume a trial and error component involved
    which is wrong. Proper argument? It was THE argument to point out that
    Gai and minato did not know they could succeed through
    having done it before but instead know they will succeed by virtue of their character and motivations! Confidence was the core of the point! Gutsy characters with the desire to protect and a willingness to die in the process will succeed because that's partly how writers make these characters special! Furthermore, my example with naruto's kagebunshin has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion because it was the best example of how the confidence IM talking about works! He has in that scenario both guts and a desire to protect and succeeds in a high risk move THAT HE HAD NEVER DONE
    BEFORE!!! you said it was a bad example and had nothing to do with it and that i should have pointed out in the form of "how did naruto know he could use the shadow clone jutsu if he had never done it b4" WELL THATS EXACTLY WHAT I FUCKING DID YOU MORON!! The whole bit about common sense was to simply look at gai and minato for the classic character traits they have in common and i reinforced that with the example if naruto's episode of first using the mass shadow clone jutsu for the first time when he was protecting iruka because naruto, in that scene, had everything characteristically on common with gai and minato but with the added proof that HE HAD NEVER DONE IT BEFORE!!

    my God, learn to read or at least learn to keep your mouth shut if you are just going to Blabber on incorrectly just for the sake of continuing a fight.

    And IM still waiting from the other thread for you to tell us when exactly madara died because according to you he had been long dead before other certain events. Well, IM waiting, tell me WHEN DID MADARA DIE?? tell me that and i might shut up and leave you alone but you are so terribly stupid to say "clearly your point stands" after so humorously bungling your rebuttal and claiming i should have said something a certain way when THATS EXACTLY HOW I SAID IT!!


    Go on now, tell us when madara died. This thread or the other one is no matter. Or do you need to avoid answering so you can make a fool of yourself further by explaining itachi was a direct loving brother to sasuke when everyone knows that after the uchiha massacre itachi could only show his love indirectly and through a complicated facade. Just type anything, it doesn't natter, type something because no matter what, it's bound to be entertaining.

  4. #64
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    :
    Nope, you missed the point about common sense because its now more than clear you have absolutely none at all. Your analogy of "training with the death God or whatever it's name was", all i have to do to prove you wrong is to simply repeat what you say! How did naruto know he could save iruka sensei with a massive kagebunshin no jutsu from a forbidden scroll he just acquired when he had never done it before and his previous basic clones were complete failures? You can arrive at the correct answer more than one way but all require common sense!

    Here, I'll give you the answer because i feel sorry.. it's that the guarantee of death does not diminish a strong will in confidence, especially when a strong will defines its confidence through a desire to protect. Start there and try rereading some chapters.
    I also mentioned this possiblity too in a simular way,

    Gai and minato and other shionobi that use these kind of jutsu that kill on cast, they call apun their courage have 100% self belief and only attempt it when they are in a life and death battle. I said this was gambling on their on abilty.

    But this is still a peotic way of looking at it, in a more logical way ie the common sense u mention me and amara apparatently are not using, its better to look at it the way we did by simply looking at it mere as a training exercice. How can know u can do something if it kills u in the process?

    Well according to u they dont and they have self belief and gamble on their abilities when the time comes.

    Thats cool, but try and look at it from our persceptive too.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    I also mentioned this possiblity too in a simular way,

    Gai and minato and other shionobi that use these kind of jutsu that kill on cast, they call apun their courage have 100% self belief and only attempt it when they are in a life and death battle. I said this was gambling on their on abilty.

    But this is still a peotic way of looking at it, in a more logical way ie the common sense u mention me and amara apparatently are not using, its better to look at it the way we did by simply looking at it mere as a training exercice. How can know u can do something if it kills u in the process?

    Well according to u they dont and they have self belief and gamble on their abilities when the time comes.

    Thats cool, but try and look at it from our persceptive too.
    Oh i don't mind a difference in perspective and i don't have to agree with you but this almara fool keeps trying to dismiss anything i say by claiming it doesn't fit or follow the discussion and initiated a step of disrespect towards me that i only meet him now with hostility. And as to what i can offer you, its a case of path and destination. I know the path without having been to the destination. I know how to drive to new mexico but i have never been there. That answers gai knowing he can open the gate without doing it. How does he know he will die? Through the understanding of his own limits in the previous gates and the assumed general knowledge of what it does to the body.
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  6. #66
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    what you dont realize in your grossly narrowminded point of view, knife eater, is that "special confidence atribute" is all fine and dandy but what you fail to realize is that unless they know how to use the things they do, in this case the seal and 8 gates, all their so called confidence is pointless. just look at naruto, the epitome of confidence and determination, he got that in spades and it have helped him a lot, but it doesnt exactly give him additional jutsus or causing him to know more than he actually does. common sense tells me that their skill in the jutsu comes first and not the confidence, you know what common sense is, right knife eater?

    i find it funny that you say that im dismissing everything you say etc. when in actuality you're doing it, dismissing every1 that doesnt agree with, saying they are either a troll, fool or my personal favorite, have no common sense. you way of thinking and arguements on this matter just arent very logical to me and doesnt make much sense, by your account naruto, as i mentioned earlier, would know every jutsu in narutoverse, being able to open all 8 gates and all that simply based on his confidence and determination and yet, he doesnt, training comes in to play, i seriously doubt he would have known how to do the rasengan simply from seeing it once and if it wasnt for the training he's gone through with both kakashi, jiraiya and himself, he wouldnt be so far as he is, confidence and determination be damned, so to speak. the confidence and determination you speak of knife eater are tools like a kunai but if you dont know how to use those things they are utterly pointless.

  7. #67
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    what you dont realize in your grossly narrowminded point of view, knife eater, is that "special confidence atribute" is all fine and dandy but what you fail to realize is that unless they know how to use the things they do, in this case the seal and 8 gates, all their so called confidence is pointless. just look at naruto, the epitome of confidence and determination, he got that in spades and it have helped him a lot, but it doesnt exactly give him additional jutsus or causing him to know more than he actually does. common sense tells me that their skill in the jutsu comes first and not the confidence, you know what common sense is, right knife eater?

    i find it funny that you say that im dismissing everything you say etc. when in actuality you're doing it, dismissing every1 that doesnt agree with, saying they are either a troll, fool or my personal favorite, have no common sense. you way of thinking and arguements on this matter just arent very logical to me and doesnt make much sense, by your account naruto, as i mentioned earlier, would know every jutsu in narutoverse, being able to open all 8 gates and all that simply based on his confidence and determination and yet, he doesnt, training comes in to play, i seriously doubt he would have known how to do the rasengan simply from seeing it once and if it wasnt for the training he's gone through with both kakashi, jiraiya and himself, he wouldnt be so far as he is, confidence and determination be damned, so to speak. the confidence and determination you speak of knife eater are tools like a kunai but if you dont know how to use those things they are utterly pointless.
    Hey, dipshit, you are creating a condition that i didn't say. You are the only person here who cant understand my post. Its like in the itachi's illness thread you so stupidly concluded that what i said about itachi also applies to kakashi. I pointed out that it doesn't apply to kakashi, another person mentioned how you got owned then you come back to say again that same nonsense about kakashi. I don't respect people like you that delusionally troll in a crude and pathetic manner or parrot the same argument when the point was shot down. I can't decide if you ate just trying to annoy me IR if you are just tragically stupid. I've been wrong in several of my posts and theories and thanked the ppl that pointed out my mistake. You don't deserve that because everytime you reply to me you keep reaching new depths of ignorance. At least you didn't fail to entertain. Now, when did madara die? Are you going to answer that or not? I advise you use an ignore function with me from now on if you absolutely can't resist inserting your foot into your mouth but IM not sure what tastes worse for you.. your foot that constantly stumbles or the shoddy arguments you put forth again and again after they ate wrong. Regurgitated words, almara, please spare me them until you tell us when madara died.

    Just do that, tell us when madara died! Do that or shut up please because i can't stand feeling sorry for you much longer.

    Hey. I'll bite though. Just for you, ill answer the post. The point at hand is gai, how he knows he can reach final gate if he dies and also, covering the point of how does he know he actually dies. Is that wrong? IS IT WRONG?! That's EXACTLY WHAT I ADDRESSED!!! The example with naruto YOU SAID IT DIDNT COUNT AND TOLD ME I SHOULD HAVE WORDED IT A CERTAIN WAY TO BE APPLICABLE!! but guess what, I WORDED IT JUST LIKE YOU SAID IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORDED!!!! YOU CANT FUCKING READ!!! The other poster understood my post and responded as such. What did you do? You come back with rasengan bullshit and twist my point to be made into a universal argument to apply where it obvious has no meaning. Only a total idiot, i mean a once in a great while, once every few generations kind of idiot would take what i said about confidence and go with it where you did. Its so off the mark i can't even say you are.arguing. its just.... sad?

    So, for the fucking 1000th time, WHEN DID MADARA DIE?!
    Last edited by knife eater; 07-23-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  8. #68
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    lol you're funny, knife eater, ive said a few times actually, it was said he died shortly after his fight with hashirama. antoher funny thing is that everything you say counts and is perfectly correct, and everything the rest of us says doesnt count and is just plain wrong. my example with naruto is just as valid as what you've been spouting around about confidence, infact it is proof that confidence isnt enough, making your post utterly and completely pointless.

    and for your whole itachi thing, you still fail to take into account the fact that itachi was the only uchiha that got ill, so why didnt madara get ill, or sasuke or shisui, bcoz the illness itachi had nothing to do with the development of the rinnegan. infact, if you were right madara would have died a lot sooner than he did, so please tell me why he didnt, ive already told 3 times when madara died, try to read, if you can.

    and you say you've addressed how gai would know he could open but you havent, you say that it is a confidence. confidene isnt a skill, its a personality trait hence it has no influence in a jutsu, making my point about naruto perfectly valid, atleast as valid as the thing you wrote, as it is the exact same thing. if it came down to confidence and determination alone some1 like naruto could have defeated any1 with the things he knew prior to kage bunshin, but he still trains to know how to do the things he do, gai would have had to do something similar, he would have had to train first just to know if he could even do it in the first place, and as a result of that he would also know the result when he uses it.

    you should really follow your own advice knife eater, try to read and try to read without blinders on, it would really help you not to take the low road like this, and allow you to stay atleast a little civil. all i ever did was state the flaw in your arguements.

  9. #69
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    lol you're funny, knife eater, ive said a few times actually, it was said he died shortly after his fight with hashirama. antoher funny thing is that everything you say counts and is perfectly correct, and everything the rest of us says doesnt count and is just plain wrong. my example with naruto is just as valid as what you've been spouting around about confidence, infact it is proof that confidence isnt enough, making your post utterly and completely pointless.

    and for your whole itachi thing, you still fail to take into account the fact that itachi was the only uchiha that got ill, so why didnt madara get ill, or sasuke or shisui, bcoz the illness itachi had nothing to do with the development of the rinnegan. infact, if you were right madara would have died a lot sooner than he did, so please tell me why he didnt, ive already told 3 times when madara died, try to read, if you can.

    and you say you've addressed how gai would know he could open but you havent, you say that it is a confidence. confidene isnt a skill, its a personality trait hence it has no influence in a jutsu, making my point about naruto perfectly valid, atleast as valid as the thing you wrote, as it is the exact same thing. if it came down to confidence and determination alone some1 like naruto could have defeated any1 with the things he knew prior to kage bunshin, but he still trains to know how to do the things he do, gai would have had to do something similar, he would have had to train first just to know if he could even do it in the first place, and as a result of that he would also know the result when he uses it.

    you should really follow your own advice knife eater, try to read and try to read without blinders on, it would really help you not to take the low road like this, and allow you to stay atleast a little civil. all i ever did was state the flaw in your arguements.
    You are dumb ass galore, seriously! Madara did not die in his fight with hashirama! Since you once said i don't get the big picture I'll throw you a bone. I answered the gai/final gate question by saying basically it was by virtue if their characte they had knowledge through confidence. What a dumb shit like you would say is that knowledge through confidence then means no training and that what i said means naruto could do anything. That's what you did. You took my point and made it something it wasn't. That is what being narrow minded is all about, taking a perfectly valid point THAT THE OTHER POSTER UNDERSTOOD BUT NOT YOU, and making it so exclusive as to rule out other realities. That's what you did, plain as day for all to read! That is someone who not only can't see the big picture but is too dumb as shit to even grasp a tiny piece of it. Now that you know you are wrong about madara dying when fighting hashirama will you fucking shut up? Will stop spouting out your ass about logic when i never self proclaimed, in first, second, third or any point of view, anything about logic, superior or otherwise. I only said YOU lack common sense! There is a difference but you have to be at least a shade above completely retarded to understand that. As.far as you lacking common sense, its freaking GLARING in all if your posts! IM not even going to post the pages discussing why madara parented to die in his fight against hashirama. I want some people to be as entertained as i am with your nonsense. Any half wit would see that when tobi said the fight with hashirama was a ruse to steal his power and that madara knew nagato by name when questioning the status of the plan when emerging from the coffin AND the fact madara encountered the tsuchikage in hus youth when it was believed madara was already dead, only an idiot like you would say madara died in the fight against hashirama. See, you say i don't read the manga, that IM narrow minded blah blah but i only take issue with what you say BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE YOU WRONG, YOU ARE TRAGICALLY STUPID!!! Go ahead, argue madara died in his fight against hashirama! PLEASR ARGUE THAT POINT!!!

    LOL, i got even more laughs just now when reading you trying to invalidate confidence, saying because it is a personality trait, it has no influence on jutsu. FUCKING IDIOT!! The other poster already understood the point i made, agreed with it but asked i also understand his pov. You are still desperately trying to explain how i was wrong! You are so off track and way behind thar can't see that you are the only person lacking the comprehension here! Keep arguing!! This is such gold i can't stand for you to stop!
    Last edited by knife eater; 07-23-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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  10. #70
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    again you are reading what i wrote with blinders on, i never said madara died in his fight with hashirama, i said he died shortly after the fight, and the term shortly is a relative term. and you are so missing my point, ill explain it to you again then. my point was that confidence comes through their personality and has nothing to do with what they know, in essence making confidence completely pointless in this discussion about gai knowing he could open the 8th gate. it does however help in the training and fights itself. you say i rule out your arguements, when all i do is making the flaws in your arguements come to light, and tell you what im disagreeing with, which is the whole point of a discussion and forums. i never said your point wasnt valid, they are as valid as mine, i just stated what i find wrong with said points, you're the one that says that my points arent valid, you're the one that call ppl names when they dont agree with you. i dont exactly know what your arguement is in the last part of your post tho, tsunade was the granddaughter of hashirama, so in terms of age, it is perfectly believable that the tsuchikage would have met madara(as in the living actual madara) in his youth considering the tsuchikage is actually older than tsunade, hell kushina even met mito when kushina was a kid.

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