View Poll Results: please read my post first.

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  • i am right. and rinnegan level 2 exists

    2 6.90%
  • i am wrong. i should stop drinking at breakfast

    14 48.28%
  • to soon to tell, but you think that i am right

    5 17.24%
  • too soon to tell, but you think that i am wrong

    8 27.59%
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  1. #21
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    There is no such thing as a rinnegan level two. There is no such thing as a Mangekyou level two. There is no such thing as an EMS. I would explain but why bother, it goes above all your heads.

    you guys should just listen to Rlinfamous, he's always right. (most of the times, especially when he's not complaining like an ordinary whiner).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    The rest of this post either states the obvious or jumps to some pretty strange conclusions. There's no need for the Rinnegan to gain a form possessing tomoe, even if the genjutsu placed on the Jyubi caused a Tomoe to appear in its eye.

    Rinnebadass is correct about the Sharingan's developments bringing it close to the (spiritual) powers of the Rinnegan, but the "perfect Rinnegan" would simply be the Rinnegan itself, which is one step beyond the EMS. There's no way to "perfect" the Rinnegan, which is already the perfect doujutsu.

    I just don't see what reason we have to think that there's a Rinnegan level two. Maybe fusing a Rinnegan with the EMS (which is close enough to the Rinnegan to be compatible?) could yield results similar to combining the powers of a pair of Mangekyou into an EMS? Is that the logic used here? (ignore this last part, that was dumb)
    EMS is just Mangekyou. Rinnegan is just Rinnegan, the all encompassing doujutsu. Mangekyou is the spiritual component of the rinnegan, the yin release, yinton, the spiritual and death powers, powers of the netherrealm, underworld, supernatural. Every f**kin thing is the power of the rinnegan itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    But Raf there is... tomed - unpure(hatred), tomeless - pure(love).
    And you came up with that explanation all by yourself? Let me know when you understand the true meaning of tomoes.
    Last edited by Rokudaime Sennin ™; 09-20-2010 at 04:10 PM.
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  2. #22
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin ™ View Post
    EMS is just Mangekyou. Rinnegan is just Rinnegan, the all encompassing doujutsu. Mangekyou is the spiritual component of the rinnegan, the yin release, yinton, the spiritual and death powers, powers of the netherrealm, underworld, supernatural. Every f**kin thing is the power of the rinnegan itself.
    Lol ! It seems like your getting tired, of explaining it again and again..

    - Perfect doujutsu = Rinnegan
    - EMS is MS, but without side- effects and an extra jutsu

    That's it. There's no Level two or whatever the fck.. a Rinnegan wielder has a balanced Physical / Spiritual energy. For example; Madara didn't had a lot of physical energy like Hashirama, so that's why he fought Hashirama, for obtaining his powers for balancing his Physical energy with his spiritual energy. With this method, he's one step closer for awakening the Rinnegan.

    If Nagato wasn't crippled,.. then you could say bye bye to Naruto Manga. Nagato would have owned everyone without any problems. The beauty about Naruto Manga is that, everything and everybody is so well balanced with eachother... Kishimoto himself is the true genius afterall.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member rinnebadass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin ™ View Post
    There is no such thing as a rinnegan level two. There is no such thing as a Mangekyou level two. There is no such thing as an EMS. I would explain but why bother, it goes above all your heads.

    you guys should just listen to Rlinfamous, he's always right. (most of the times, especially when he's not complaining like an ordinary whiner).



    EMS is just Mangekyou. Rinnegan is just Rinnegan, the all encompassing doujutsu. Mangekyou is the spiritual component of the rinnegan, the yin release, yinton, the spiritual and death powers, powers of the netherrealm, underworld, supernatural. Every f**kin thing is the power of the rinnegan itself.



    And you came up with that explanation all by yourself? Let me know when you understand the true meaning of tomoes.
    please explain.. what is the tomoed rinnegan then?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    please explain.. what is the tomoed rinnegan then?
    An eye of the greatest demon in Naruto. It may be called the reverse rinnegan as it represents a tool of hell.

    or

    Rinnegan + Rinnegan = Tomoed Rinnegan (It's when 2 eyes are united as one).

  5. #25
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    please explain.. what is the tomoed rinnegan then?
    valid question.

    the true form of the sharingan which trumps even the rinnegan.

    you heard it here first
    And witness the sparkle within this world of darkness.
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  6. #26
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Those tomoes in Juubi's eyes, is the Mugen T- Yomi being casted by Rikudou Sennin on Juubi.

    - That's also probably the Mugen T- Yomi, that Madara wants to cast on the Moon.

    Better explanation of the tomoed Rinnegan on Juubi:

    This is what I think..; 3 tomoes represents the Normal Sharingan, 6 tomoes = MS and 9 tomoes = EMS. Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan seems to be the highest level you can get with the Sharingan and those 9 tomoes inside of Juubi's eye, has to be the highest level of Rikudou's Sennin's Spiritual Energy, the Mugen T- Yomi.
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  7. #27
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Those tomoes in Juubi's eyes, is the Mugen T- Yomi being casted by Rikudou Sennin on Juubi.

    - That's also probably the Mugen T- Yomi, that Madara wants to cast on the Moon.

    Better explanation of the tomoed Rinnegan on Juubi:

    This is what I think..; 3 tomoes represents the Normal Sharingan, 6 tomoes = MS and 9 tomoes = EMS. Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan seems to be the highest level you can get with the Sharingan and those 9 tomoes inside of Juubi's eye, has to be the highest level of Rikudou's Sennin's Spiritual Energy, the Mugen T- Yomi.
    but even if the juubi was under a genjutsu(mugen tsukuyomi or whichever), where did the tomoes appear from? why wasn't it simply the rinnegan on the juubis eye without any tomoes?

    sharingan=3 tomoes but that's basically where it ends

    mangekyou sharingan= 3 tomoes becoming one(sometimes becoming one even with the pupil itself)

    EMS= 2 MS becoming one.. so if anything, it would equal 6 tomoes though there are no tomoes at this stage

    and what power did the elder brothers eye possess? his design is unique.
    And witness the sparkle within this world of darkness.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    but even if the juubi was under a genjutsu(mugen tsukuyomi or whichever), where did the tomoes appear from? why wasn't it simply the rinnegan on the juubis eye without any tomoes?
    Spoiler!


    The look in kyubi's eyes isn't really a sharingan as well.

    Besides I always though that the tomoes came from the jyubi, because part of his chakra/power went to the older brother. Even now the jyubi seems to send his strength, trough the sharingan or the moonlight, to the one that pay for it by doing evil deeds(like killing your best friend, stealing your own brother's eyes etc.).

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    okay..

    the thing is:

    rikodou was the one that wrote on that "uchiha" stone. (so far, it is manga fact)

    that stone has the secrets of mangekyou and the jubi thing. (so far, it is manga fact).

    question: how rikodou knew about the mangekyou powers\secrets?

    answer: rikodou was able to use mangekyou's powers, or better put, rikodou's rinnegan was able to use mangekyou's powers.

    why?

    here goes the theory.

    somehow madara and his brother discovered that by killing their best friends, they would achieve new powers.

    only logical justification: they were the strongest uchiha and they trained and developed those eyes so much, that they were able to read more from that stone (young sasuke was able to read to the part that said that the new doujutsu was able to control kiuby). eventually, they read that by killing their best friends (or kill all the bonds etc), they would achieve MS.

    this means that mangekyou's powers are really old and not a new thing. when sharingan is developed, it becomes "older" and closer to the "perfect rinnegan", or rinnegan level 2.

    now you guys ask:

    what the f*ck is rinnegan level 2 amazing and godly rinnebadass?

    and i answer:

    in the beginning of part 2, a pic from deva path was showed when they were going to seal ichibi. that pic clearly showed a 3 tomoed rinnegan. some you may think that it was a mistake (and perhaps it was, but not because kishi was confused between itachi and deva path, lol the eyes already have ripple patern) however i think it wasnt.

    why? -it was something too big in a manga were the eyes are very important and are huge references.
    - step 2

    step 2: look at jubi's eye. what do you see? i see a rinnegan with nine tomoes (the perfect rinnegan. the one that was able to use mangekyou's powers too) and not jubi's ultimate sharingan. jubi is somehow in a "submissive" position. in my opinion, jubi is under the effect of rikodou's "tsukyomi" and rikodou's eyes are just like the eye that we can see in the ten-tails.


    why nagato lost the tomoes:

    the truth is that i have some doubts here. but i will do my best.

    when nagato fought hanzou, he was able to jump, walk, and flex his legs even when he was hit. this is manga fact. however he stoped to move when he was pierced in every organ etc (you can understand why) by gedo mazo.

    theory: after that fight, he trained and was developing those eyes. eventually his eye tomoes began to appear. after that, he started using gedo mazo several times 3 days in a row etc, and he was going weaker and weaker. still he had to fight for his village etc. he created pain and was becoming even more weaker etc. the tomoes disapeared.


    another theories: perhaps tobi wants sasuke's ems to fuse them with the rinnegan.

    tobi wants a strong sasuke and the rinnegan because he needs the rinnegan to summom gedo mazo and wants sasuke to be "sucked" by it.

    this may be the moment when sasuke tries to stab tobi.

    fact: even the rinnegan that we saw can counter any MS jutsu so far.
    I think the general idea of this theory is accurate. I agree that the true Rinnegan is most likely what Madara persues and that the sharingan is a result of the divison of the bloodline and the bloodline weakening with time.

    I do, however, have my doubts that Nagato ever possessed the true Rinnegan (the 9 tomoe Rinnegan). My reason for this belief is that Madara insists that it was he who gave Nagato the Rinnegan. My theory is that if Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan it must have been because he himself could not use it effectively, or because he needed someone who could help it to evolve further. Now, Madara has made it clear that certain people are instramental to his plan, his plan of becoming whole. Whole being, the true successor to the original Rikudou. Nagato has never shown the potential do do what the original Rikudou could at any point and frankly I don't see any indication that he ever did have it. Madara likewise has never shown any hint that he ever truly possessed the power of the Rikudou even though he apparently fused the bloodlines of Senju and Uchiha long ago. So based on that, it seems clear that there is more to the Rikudou's power than simply the Uchiha and Senju bloodline combined with the Rinnegan.

    My guess is that Madara has slowly been collecting all the elements he needs to recreated the bloodline and the eyes of the Rikudou. Beyond that, it is not just any Uchiha or and Senju that Rikudou needs, he needs the epitomy of each. Hashirama Senju was a rare find, he was apparently the most powerful Senju, it was he who Madara needed. Within each of the clan's there are specific people with special gifts. This goes futher to explain why it is so important for Madara to have Sasuke. As Madara himself said, Susanoo is exceptionally rare, Madara has an enormous collection of sharingans and he himself has the Eternal Mangekyou yet for some reason that is not enough. My belief is that reason is that Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyou possesses properties that his lacks. Madara needs a special Mangekyou to go along with his own so that he can recreate the true Rinnegan which was originally possessed by the sage, the 9 tomoe Rinnegan.

    Now people may ask why the Rikudou is usually shown with only the Rinnegan that we have seen and not the 9 tomoe one. The answer, I believe, is simple. As we have seen the Rinnegan is active at all times, where as the sharingan only activates when the user desires to use its power. When the bloodline was divided the Elder brother did not possess the base Rinnegan but he did have a very powerful eye, his decendants did inherit the ability to awaken this power, more tomoe and eventually higher levels of sharingan it through training and sacrifice. They potentially harnessed one half of the true Rinnegan's ability but could never awaken the Rinnegan though since the bloodline was divided.

    This goes into why Madara was able to create the Rinnegan but it is incomplete. Madara was the highest level uchiha/sharingan user of his time and by fusing his own blood with Hashirama's, the highest level Senju, he was able to create a base version of the Rinnegan. He had 2 problems though, one being that his body had been seriously damaged by Hashirama which made him an insuitable host and 2 the bloodlines were no longer simply 2 halves, both had been diluted/divided with time. The Uzumaki now possessed a bloodline that was the most suitable for the Rinnegan. As a result, Madara sought out an Uzumaki who he would be able to manipulate and also who would be a suitable host for the Rinnegan. Nagato fit the bill on both accounts as his goals worked in conjunction with Madara's and he was a young Uzumaki who Madara could mentor/indoctronate. Through using the Rinnegan Nagato was able to bring it closer to completion but that still wasn't enough.

    My guess is that Madara needed an Uchiha with a very particular sharingan, for what ever reason, his own Sharingan was not enough to complete the Rinnegan. I think that Madara was not only looking to get revenge on the Uchiha, he was also scouting for a candidate to help him complete the Rinnegan. Surprisingly, I believe, his candidate found him. Just as Orochimaru saw something special in Itachi and Sasuke, Madara saw it too. Madara saw the potential in Itachi but probably much like Orochimaru he came to realize that he would not be manipulated quite as easily as he had hoped. Unlike Orochimaru though, Madara needed both brothers from the start because what he really wanted was their combined power, their Eternal Mangekyou. He didn't really care which one he got, as long as he got the product. So he made a deal with Itachi that kept Itachi where he wanted him until Sasuke could grow into the role.

    Madara probably knew from very early on that Itachi would not take Sasuke's eyes, as he told Sasuke, he knew more about Itachi than anyone. Madara needed Itachi alive and well though for long enough for Sasuke to develop his own Mangekyou. Just as Nagato was suitable for Madara to manipulate, Sasuke was also naive enough and fragil enough that Madara knew he would be the one. Now Sasuke has the Eternal Mangekyou that Madara wanted and he has regained the Rinnegan, now more suitable to his needs since Nagato used it for years.

    Obviously this information is largely theoretical but this is my best guess at the moment. I believe that the Eternal Mangekyou and the Rinnegan, that Nagato possessed, are each simply 2 different parts of the true Rinnegan. That is why the abilities of each are so different, they are meant to be used together. Alone each is amazing but both have limits. The sharingan can do things that Nagato was clearly incapable of, yet the Rikudou himself was apparently able to perform. According to Madara, he was the one who gave Nagato the Rinnegan and it is the product of a Uchiha/Senju union. It makes sense to me that the separation of bloodlines could very well lead to this type of situation. Since the Senju clan was no longer as pure as it was, the Uzumaki clan became better suited to handling the power of the Rinnegan.
    Last edited by artifice; 09-23-2010 at 12:28 AM.

  10. #30
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    @ Artifice

    - hmm, I'll respond later on, because I only agree with 3/4 of your post.. but I just wanted to say; why do you keep saying: 6 tomoe Rinnegan? It's 9 tomoe Rinnegan..

    I think that; Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan seems to be the highest level you can get with the Sharingan and those 9 tomoes inside of Juubi's eye, has to be the highest level of Rikudou's Sennin's Spiritual Energy, the Mugen T- Yomi.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

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