did madara defeate the 1st hokage or the other way around?

**sangar5729** · 09-15-2007, 06:24 AM

woah.... tobi... dammit... y tha heck madara has to return? x.x

that cursed guy.... like jiraya said... madara is capable of summoning the damn kyubi. n the kyubi engaged with madara last time so that y that damn kyubi knows madara.... hurm... where the heck is narutoz story goin adi?

**emanresu** · 09-15-2007, 06:26 AM

doubt shodai was beaten. possibily he was saved by the healing power of Kyyubi

**Easley** · 09-15-2007, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kendoki

The 1st killed Madara.

Jiraiya had a "bad feeling" when he said Madara couldn't be alive. It's almost as if he knows the official story is wrong. It's implied that Kyuubi attacked Konoha (15 years ago) because he was summoned, and Madara is the only person able to summon him. Then it cuts to a shot of Tobi on Madara's statue with sharingan activated! The connection is obvious.

**dream_addict** · 09-15-2007, 07:11 AM

i think 1st defeated madara.. we've seen 1st n 2nd with young sarutobi in the old chap but we never seen madara before..

**illus.** · 09-15-2007, 07:35 AM

I still have a hard time believing Tobi is anyone else but Obito. He said he only had the power of Madara Uchiha...he never said he actually was him.

Now of course all the details are left to be explained...but the clues are all there that Tobi is Obito. You rearrange the letters of the name, you form Obito. Obito gave his left eye to Kakashi and Tobi only has a right eye. Pay close attention to Tobi's hairstyle...same as Obito's. Take a look at Tobi's temperament (he is very polite, uplifting, and kind to everyone...just as Obito was.)

Sorry if it's been mentioned or this theory has been beaten to death already....but i'm FAIRLY certain Madara Uchiha is long dead...and Tobi has somehow acquired his powers and is now exacting some sort of plan/revenge. This will likely be the premise for a nice, epic fight between Kakashi and Tobi.

**luimac** · 09-15-2007, 07:38 AM

is 100% that 1st defeated Madara... we cant say kill him, but in ninja fights usually means death. I think the Valley became so legendary and the satues where constructed because it was such a increabible battle and ended in Madara's death.. but like I said... not 100%.

**vol19** · 09-15-2007, 08:44 AM

Madara once summoned the ninetails. However the 1st (Yamato) had a speacial jutsu that was able to control ninetails' chakra....Madara fled to the valley and was defeated there to the 1st.

.

**kevyin** · 09-15-2007, 09:05 AM

Odd how the bad guy founded the Uchiha clan..

**Traiken** · 09-15-2007, 10:44 AM

Uh, Kyuubi was summoned during the time of the 4th - way after the 1st Hokage was around. If Uchiha Madara did summon Kyuubi, then it's obvious that the 1st Hokage didn't finish Madara off/was defeated by Madara instead.

**matrice** · 09-15-2007, 02:19 PM

With the last chapter we know for sure that Madara was killed by the First hokage. The first may have been wery strong to be able to kill the Uchia clan's founder. Indeed, Tsunade can't even be compared, even if she is his daughter. I'm currenty thinking if this shoul mess up the power levels of the previous hokages too: till now I always thought that the Fourth was the stronger, but the 1st may have been something terrific. Maybe Madara had even a special power that allowed him to summon bijuus, like the 1dt has the sealing power (which should have something to do with the use of wood-chakra type, but I don't get which is the connection).