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  1. #101
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halaros536 View Post
    well i did not say that to be strong they necessarily need to be shinigami like they can be strong without that but turning into shinigami they become even stronger than they were before just like shinigami get stronger by becoming visards.i dont see what is your objection to this.
    2 things:

    1) In a previous post, I said that shinigami do not reproduce, that was a conclusion we had reached after a past debate. Having searched, I am now unsure about it.

    2) In a Manga episode, it was established that there is a limit to arrancars' ability to continue growing/ getting stronger by eating others. That limit is set by the innate potential for growth by the given arrancar.

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  2. #102
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    2 things:

    1) In a previous post, I said that shinigami do not reproduce, that was a conclusion we had reached after a past debate. Having searched, I am now unsure about it.

    2) In a Manga episode, it was established that there is a limit to arrancars' ability to continue growing/ getting stronger by eating others. That limit is set by the innate potential for growth by the given arrancar.
    exactly.. Grimmjow explained what you said in point 2. Ichigo just needs to work balance his Hollow / shinigami form. Losing his mind is his breakpoint when he goes Super Saiyan hollow mode 1.

    - Just like naruto with the kyuubi inside of him.. the more he use to transform into the kyuubi, the faster he loses his mind. Btw; will we ever see Ichigo's mom, because latetly I'm starting to think that her death went way differently..
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  3. #103
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Ichigo's mom is also sealed inside Naruto.

  4. #104
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    exactly.. Grimmjow explained what you said in point 2. Ichigo just needs to work balance his Hollow / shinigami form. Losing his mind is his breakpoint when he goes Super Saiyan hollow mode 1.

    - Just like naruto with the kyuubi inside of him.. the more he use to transform into the kyuubi, the faster he loses his mind. Btw; will we ever see Ichigo's mom, because latetly I'm starting to think that her death went way differently..
    There is a difference having a limit as a hollow and having a limit as an arrancar. I think you are thinking of the former, where Grimmjow said that he noticed that he had not grown despite eating over 7000 hollows. The growth rate is not necessarily limited by innate standards either, since as long a hollow continues to feed on other hollows of similar or slightly weaker strength than themselves, their growth will not stop. The growth will stop however, if someone else takes a bite out of them, or if they do not eat enough powerful hollows.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Ichigo's mom is also sealed inside Naruto.
    Nice, why not?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  6. #106
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Ichigo's mom is also sealed inside Naruto.
    hahahaha.. epic answer kuro, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    There is a difference having a limit as a hollow and having a limit as an arrancar. I think you are thinking of the former, where Grimmjow said that he noticed that he had not grown despite eating over 7000 hollows. The growth rate is not necessarily limited by innate standards either, since as long a hollow continues to feed on other hollows of similar or slightly weaker strength than themselves, their growth will not stop. The growth will stop however, if someone else takes a bite out of them, or if they do not eat enough powerful hollows.
    .. aah okey, thnkz for explaining that part.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  7. #107
    LeaT's got some nice theories going on, gets the mind thinking on what kubo has planned for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Shepherd View Post
    LeaT, so you are saying a Vasto Lord is a hollow that has completely become a perfect blend of hollow and shinigami? They have to have part shinigami? Now, if it wasnt for the whole emphasis that grimmy ate like 7k or w/e hollows or adjuchas or something, and still never evolved, i would be less likely to believe that. What you say makes sense, for the most part. I just find it weird that a hollow level would have to include them receiving shinigami powers. Like, if there have also never been one, then why have that rating? So, there I would have to think there have been some before, but were just devastatingly powerful and looked very human-like.

    Thinking about it, that vasto lord level does make sense, that it has to be a blend of hollow and shinigami. I mean, a Hollow breaking the boundaries by himself without the H-cube, which would make him more powerful and now a vasto lorde, would be believable. But then if hollows have to do it to reach a certain level, then wouldnt shinigami really have to do it, also? I mean, itd only make sense..

    About the 5 Vasto lords owning SS.. It would make sense, if they are Captain-Commander level, which is more or less what i believe, or at least urahara level.

    I like the way you explain how they gain consciouses and it makes them stronger, though. I mean, they wouldn't necessarily need to have shinigami powers for that, either. Another thing, if there were some that attain shinigami powers of their own, whats to stop them from actually being good hollows, kinda like nel, and helping SS? I guess you could say they wouldnt be the perfect blend, and that they would be more shinigami-like or something, but then it still holds. They could help SS if they were accepted, which i admit probably isnt likely. But it is possible..

    I will still believe that Vasto Lord is a hollow level that doesnt necessarily have to have shinigami powers, just because i want to. Either way would make sense to me, though. I just find it weird that itd be a the strongest hollow ranking but not even a complete hollow. I mean, they dont even call it an arrancar. Though, they could have been lost in translation/time as you said. It feels completely weird, the idea of vasto lords needing to shinigamify themselves.. I mean, that means aizen completely failed to shinigamify a hollow...
    I think LeaT was highlighting the resemblance of how Shinigami's are guided by a strong sense of moral and logic, whilst hollows, arrancars and alike are governed by pure instinct. Hence, in order for a Shinigami to obtain higher power other than just strict shinigami ability, one would have to abandon their governing persona and acquire instinct. In reversal, when hollows are given the option to advance to presumably VL, one would have to abandon pure instinct and adapt to moral and logic...

    As our world has shown from evolution, civilizations advance through logic and moral FROM instinct, therefore, for a shinigami to abandon logic and moral, it would mean regression. With all that being said, theoretically, for a arrancer/hollow to advance means evolution. Whereas, for a shinigami to advance means regression and we all know regression is less commonly to occur...SOOOO, that means a VL, has the ability to differentiate between logic and instinct, not only that but also use them both as necessarily. Classifying them above all other hollows/arrancars and also captain shinigamis. It certainly doesn't mean VLs have acquired shinigami abilities nor have they obtained shinigami parts.

    As for the whole theory about psychoanalysis, EVEN BETTER MATERIAL!
    Totally agree with close ties of how kubo is inspired by these theories.
    I may not have been in this forums long enough to know what's been posted already but my guess is, essentially each arc is emphasize on each of the 3 governing regions of ichigo...human, shinigami and hollow. As we're nearing the end of this arc, it's most likely kubo just needs a quick fill for any substantial increase for ichigo's shinigami powers as hollowfication/vizard emphasize was given in the recent arcs...
    Also, because we havn't seen any action as of late from zangetsu or any kind of shinigami abilities peeking from ichigo, it would be utterly ridiculous if kubo just introduces some brand new ability or next level bankai. The final GT is NOT a brand new ability of any sort as we were shown that isshin's GT was able to do minimal damage to aizen, showing potential of GT growth for ichigo. Slight hints and peeks of ichigo powerups are always shown ahead of the actual stage where the powerup is learnt...which is why i think having introduced potential for GT, it's only natural for kubo to go with that and not anything else...

    Moreover, ichigo's hollow side has received massive amounts of attention with his transformation during the ulquiorra fight, making it impossible for another hollow-related powerup or else the instinctive governing side will once again become the king over the moral and logic...
    OOOH and also that for a hollow power-up to occur, the shinigami side has to be the dominant and powerful side FIRST, ichigo's been using vizard powers as a boost to his original abilities and nothing else...meaning that shinigami powers have been fading from him since.
    I predict a hollow power-up of some kind regarding his transformation during the ulquiorra fight AFTER he's mastered some kind of strictly shinigami power (final GT) and an emotional torment that will spark his instinctual quarter, perhaps the loss of a friend...

    Referencing regarding psychoanalysis in most of kubo's dialogue are most likely true...but who knows? Anything goes without cement-like evidence.
    JUST HAVE TO WAIT!

  8. #108
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    There is a difference having a limit as a hollow and having a limit as an arrancar. I think you are thinking of the former, where Grimmjow said that he noticed that he had not grown despite eating over 7000 hollows. The growth rate is not necessarily limited by innate standards either, since as long a hollow continues to feed on other hollows of similar or slightly weaker strength than themselves, their growth will not stop. The growth will stop however, if someone else takes a bite out of them, or if they do not eat enough powerful hollows.
    I cannot agree, Leat. There is no evidence or information to prefer your interpretation. Furthermore, the only record of arracar of espada rank or higher eating other hollows was #10, and he ate his own fracion whom he himself made.

    If it is not stated directly, I think it is implied that Espada and above cannot grow from eating other hollows. Oc course, eating superior hollows can be a whole other matter. In other words, if Szayelaporro Grantz pad somehow eaten Grimjow, would he have risen in power?

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  9. #109
    ɹǝʎʍɐן Я I Hand Banana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I cannot agree, Leat. There is no evidence or information to prefer your interpretation. Furthermore, the only record of arracar of espada rank or higher eating other hollows was #10, and he ate his own fracion whom he himself made.

    If it is not stated directly, I think it is implied that Espada and above cannot grow from eating other hollows. Oc course, eating superior hollows can be a whole other matter. In other words, if Szayelaporro Grantz pad somehow eaten Grimjow, would he have risen in power?
    What he said was directly from the manga tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Ichigo's mom is also sealed inside Naruto.
    Your sense of humor has been top notch lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo2fish View Post
    LeaT's got some nice theories going on, gets the mind thinking on what kubo has planned for this.


    I think LeaT was highlighting the resemblance of how Shinigami's are guided by a strong sense of moral and logic, whilst hollows, arrancars and alike are governed by pure instinct. Hence, in order for a Shinigami to obtain higher power other than just strict shinigami ability, one would have to abandon their governing persona and acquire instinct. In reversal, when hollows are given the option to advance to presumably VL, one would have to abandon pure instinct and adapt to moral and logic...

    As our world has shown from evolution, civilizations advance through logic and moral FROM instinct, therefore, for a shinigami to abandon logic and moral, it would mean regression. With all that being said, theoretically, for a arrancer/hollow to advance means evolution. Whereas, for a shinigami to advance means regression and we all know regression is less commonly to occur...SOOOO, that means a VL, has the ability to differentiate between logic and instinct, not only that but also use them both as necessarily. Classifying them above all other hollows/arrancars and also captain shinigamis. It certainly doesn't mean VLs have acquired shinigami abilities nor have they obtained shinigami parts.

    As for the whole theory about psychoanalysis, EVEN BETTER MATERIAL!
    Totally agree with close ties of how kubo is inspired by these theories.
    I may not have been in this forums long enough to know what's been posted already but my guess is, essentially each arc is emphasize on each of the 3 governing regions of ichigo...human, shinigami and hollow. As we're nearing the end of this arc, it's most likely kubo just needs a quick fill for any substantial increase for ichigo's shinigami powers as hollowfication/vizard emphasize was given in the recent arcs...
    Also, because we havn't seen any action as of late from zangetsu or any kind of shinigami abilities peeking from ichigo, it would be utterly ridiculous if kubo just introduces some brand new ability or next level bankai. The final GT is NOT a brand new ability of any sort as we were shown that isshin's GT was able to do minimal damage to aizen, showing potential of GT growth for ichigo. Slight hints and peeks of ichigo powerups are always shown ahead of the actual stage where the powerup is learnt...which is why i think having introduced potential for GT, it's only natural for kubo to go with that and not anything else...

    Moreover, ichigo's hollow side has received massive amounts of attention with his transformation during the ulquiorra fight, making it impossible for another hollow-related powerup or else the instinctive governing side will once again become the king over the moral and logic...
    OOOH and also that for a hollow power-up to occur, the shinigami side has to be the dominant and powerful side FIRST, ichigo's been using vizard powers as a boost to his original abilities and nothing else...meaning that shinigami powers have been fading from him since.
    I predict a hollow power-up of some kind regarding his transformation during the ulquiorra fight AFTER he's mastered some kind of strictly shinigami power (final GT) and an emotional torment that will spark his instinctual quarter, perhaps the loss of a friend...

    Referencing regarding psychoanalysis in most of kubo's dialogue are most likely true...but who knows? Anything goes without cement-like evidence.
    JUST HAVE TO WAIT!
    Cool story bro.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Gulley's Avatar
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    Wow after all these chapters we are finally getting to the real Karakura town. I can't believe how much of a bitch Ichigo was at the beginning though with his whining. The Final Getsuga Tenshou sounds really fucking awesome. It really seems the next few chapters will really make the Bleach series have a really good turn. A father/son battle vs. the Antagonist to protect their home. I'm assuming we will see Ryuken show up which i want to see because I want to see some real Quincy power released.
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