View Poll Results: Could any of the captaints be able to defeat ulquiorra

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  • Yes

    32 76.19%
  • No

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  1. #41
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Shepherd View Post
    Can someone link me the chapter of when ulq said his full power (2nd release, unknown to all) was weaker than the top 3 espada?

    I mean, aizen hasnt seen the 2nd release, so i dont really understand how he would know the power of it.. in which case, he would probably have a lower number. But, the fact that he said even aizen hasnt seen is the only reason im reluctant on saying he definitely should have a lower number. If it was know, then wed know for certain, but aizen might have "predicted" something like that. Though i dont really know how..

    Plus, we dont know how aizen decided who is stronger.. I mean, reiatsu? most likely that.. But maybe not, barrangan might not have much reiatsu, its just his time control would own others. Though he might have a lot of reiatsu.. or maybe it was the density of reiatsu. In which case, doesnt ulqs second release increase those? I mean, we dont know how aizen ranked them... But i personally would assume that if ulq never showed him it, that he should have a lower rank. Mainly because i dont think aizen and ulq never cared enough to change it even if they were stronger. And lets face it, ulq's perceptiveness and high speed regeneration would be extremely useful in battle, which probably werent included for the rankings... though i guess we cant be certain.

    But after seeing ichigo vs ulq, and toshiro vs halibel.. how can you say ulq is not stronger than halibel? The only reason would be because you wouldnt want to say aizen messed up on his rankings, because that could mean that ulq really is the strongest or 2nd or something...
    Simple: because Ulquiorra said that there are 3 stronger than him. Whether or not Aizen knew about his second release means nothing. "3 Stronger than him" is relative to his own strength, based on his own knowledge, and Ulquiorra knew about his second release.

    Maybe Ulquiorra lied, or was simply instigating. However, we don't have any means of comparing Ulquiorra with the top 3, so we'll have to go with what he said.

  2. #42
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    even if ulquiorra didn't tell aizen about his 2nd release, aizen could have find out about it by himself anyway. Aizen was busy in the fake karakura town and suddenly he knows about ichigo's latest transformation that happened in hueco mundo while he was away so it's probably safe to assume aizen knows about ulqs 2nd release too.

    And personally, even though i don't have any proof i have a gut feeling that ulq is stronger than halibel. I know halibel got trashed by hitsugaya which makes her looks weak but with a hax mode bankai like that ulq would be troubled too. Funny though, hitsugaya had been seen as the weakest captain before he pulls out that latest bankai mode of his.

  3. #43
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    Oh, so that 3 stronger means stark, yami, and barragan? guess that could make sense. Although, does the rankings go by pure strength, fighting capabilities, reiatsu, or what? Battles dont depend on strength.. I guess we could take his word on that he knew 3 were stronger than him. But he is the type of character to not give a shit about such a thing, and would say something to throw someone into despair. I still just assume that 0,1,2 are stronger than him, just because. I cant agree that halibel is stronger, unless she had some hidden power that we didnt get to see.

    Aizen had planned for him to face ulq to push him to have to go hollow version 2. Ulq's 1st release was plenty strong enough for that. He didnt even need to go 2nd release to kill him. Aizen could have cameras all over las noches to know things, kinda doubt it though. Aizen was probably able to predict that he would do something like that after ulq killed him. He knew ulqs character pretty well, knew he would mess around with him and whatnot, but still finish him. Hed also know orihime would try to heal him and would still want him alive. I mean, he predicted everything else about ichigo's life, why not something like that? So i wouldnt say its exactly safe to assume so.. But there is a great chance he knew about it, but still hasnt seen it. Kubo never really gave details about it but just that ulq was stronger than was thought of. I doubt the other espada knew of his second release.

    Now, thinking back, something came to mind. Would the espada fight for their numbers against others? Nnoitra did, or so it seemed. If thats the case, then seeing as noone had seen his 2nd release, that he had not fought over any numbers with his full power... probably because he didnt care or figured 4 was high enough, he was already pretty much the most useful espada for aizen. O.o Although i guess some could assume that he knew they were stronger than him.. but youve been saying 3 are stronger, and that leaves 1 out of the 4 that are stronger than him, which just makes no sense..

    Well, we wont know unless it is openly said by someone that knows for sure in a manner that they wouldnt be lying or joking.. well, pretty much kubo saying so. They cant really fight anymore.. :-/

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Shepherd View Post
    Oh, so that 3 stronger means stark, yami, and barragan? guess that could make sense. Although, does the rankings go by pure strength, fighting capabilities, reiatsu, or what? Battles dont depend on strength.. I guess we could take his word on that he knew 3 were stronger than him. But he is the type of character to not give a shit about such a thing, and would say something to throw someone into despair. I still just assume that 0,1,2 are stronger than him, just because. I cant agree that halibel is stronger, unless she had some hidden power that we didnt get to see.

    Aizen had planned for him to face ulq to push him to have to go hollow version 2. Ulq's 1st release was plenty strong enough for that. He didnt even need to go 2nd release to kill him. Aizen could have cameras all over las noches to know things, kinda doubt it though. Aizen was probably able to predict that he would do something like that after ulq killed him. He knew ulqs character pretty well, knew he would mess around with him and whatnot, but still finish him. Hed also know orihime would try to heal him and would still want him alive. I mean, he predicted everything else about ichigo's life, why not something like that? So i wouldnt say its exactly safe to assume so.. But there is a great chance he knew about it, but still hasnt seen it. Kubo never really gave details about it but just that ulq was stronger than was thought of. I doubt the other espada knew of his second release.

    Now, thinking back, something came to mind. Would the espada fight for their numbers against others? Nnoitra did, or so it seemed. If thats the case, then seeing as noone had seen his 2nd release, that he had not fought over any numbers with his full power... probably because he didnt care or figured 4 was high enough, he was already pretty much the most useful espada for aizen. O.o Although i guess some could assume that he knew they were stronger than him.. but youve been saying 3 are stronger, and that leaves 1 out of the 4 that are stronger than him, which just makes no sense..

    Well, we wont know unless it is openly said by someone that knows for sure in a manner that they wouldnt be lying or joking.. well, pretty much kubo saying so. They cant really fight anymore.. :-/
    Has allready been stated by Ulq, cant understand why people need to try and twist his word that was very clear.

  5. #45
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    Aye. Ulquiorra was a very down-to-earth, analytical and realistic person. If he said something to be true, then you can take it as face value because that's just as the kind of character he is. If It had been Grimmjow maybe, then I would've taken that with a big pinch of salt, such as when he said he could defeat Nnoitra. Ulquiorra is much more interested in facts and putting things into their proper places.

    This is Ulquiorra in a nutshell:
    http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/intp/

    Ulquiorra basically saw Ichigo as his own little theoretical project to revise into something that appears as more logical (to him).
    Avatar and signature by me.

  6. #46
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    Yeah, i sorta believe that barragan, stark, and yami are stronger.. I extremely doubt halibel is.. Those are the 3 im guessing. Thats what ill take at face value, though its what ive always been saying, really, just with some doubt.. I just kinda wish that ulq is stronger than barragan at least.. I want to see ulq fight barragan or stark, maybe halibel, too bad it wont happen. >.>

  7. #47
    Senior Member mixa's Avatar
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    Aizen gives numbers to espada by his estimate of their strength 0,1,2,3,4.After that Ulq meets and says to Ichigo:
    Spoiler!


    Then later Ulq says to Ichigo:
    Spoiler!


    He was given the number four by Aizen and if Aizen knew everything like he usually does that means he knew about second stage(spied Ulq while he practiced)then Ulq is in his rightful place as 4th espada and he thought he was telling the truth in the second statement even though it's not aaand that would imply that Ichigo version 2 hollow can beat number 4.Now if he can beat 4th espada that would mean that Ichigo HV2 would have difficulty in defeating Hitsagura,Kyuoraku,Ukitake,Yama and so on because captains have defeated espadas 1.2.3 ,even though he defeatet Byakuya(who is considered very strong) in a much weaker state than HV2.Now I would like not to underestimate Ichigo in HV2 form because it's evident it's freaking incredibly strong.Now you can tell me nobody in manga stated "Ichigo HV2 is incredibly stronger than any espada or captain"and because nobody stated it's not a fact so we don't know.Well guess what,.Bleach is not a piece of literature,you don't just read the text but observe pictures as well.Thats what manga is pictures+text.Also the manga is read by children so you shouldn't take it so seriously as well.Anyway isn't it possible that Kubo actually decided to power up Ulq to show Ichigos HV2 as overwhelming,and so to justify the power up we get that Aizen didn't know about second stage and you know the rest.There is 76 chapters of manga between first statement of Ulq and second one.That's not a short time period.Kubo could change his mind about things during that time and IMO he did.So I will belive that Ulq is stronger at least than 3th espada.

    Now I will use the logic that "If some character made a statement in manga and is apparently not lying nor character has a tendency to do so infact he never lies and other character didn't desputed his statement then the statement is considered a fact".If I use that logic then Ulq's second statement is true since Aizen didn't said "I knew about Ulqs second stage" so Aizen didn't know about second stage and he did gave him a lower rank then Ulq should have been given.

    Seriously dudes relax and go with the flow.
    Spoiler!

  8. #48
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Now if he can beat 4th espada that would mean that Ichigo HV2 would have difficulty in defeating Hitsagura,Kyuoraku,Ukitake,Yama and so on because captains have defeated espadas 1.2.3 ,even though he defeatet Byakuya(who is considered very strong) in a much weaker state than HV2.
    That's a flawed argument. We know that Hollow Ichigo > Ulquiorra. Even if Kyouraku, Ukitaka and Yama are all > Ulquiorra, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're greater than Hollow Ichigo version 2. I've seen this argument put up many times, but it violates simple mathematical logic, I dunno why people keep repeating it.

    Now I will use the logic that "If some character made a statement in manga and is apparently not lying nor character has a tendency to do so infact he never lies and other character didn't desputed his statement then the statement is considered a fact".If I use that logic then Ulq's second statement is true since Aizen didn't said "I knew about Ulqs second stage" so Aizen didn't know about second stage and he did gave him a lower rank then Ulq should have been given.
    Another flawed argument. Let's assume that Ulquiorra did not lie. Aizen may not have known about Segunda Etapa, but Ulquiorra did. Since he said that there are three stronger than he is even though he knows how powerful he is with Segunda Etapa, simple logic will say that, well, the top 3 are stronger than he is, even with Segunda Etapa.

    The only way that Ulquiorra is stronger than the Top 3 Espada is if he lied. And we don't have any reason to believe that he did.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Perverted Pirate's Avatar
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    Based on everything I've seen in the manga thus far, Ulq is the most powerful espada (this is IMHO).
    I think Kyo and Yama could possibly hold their own/win. Can't say for sure as we've not seen very much of them.

    Also: "According to the espada power ranking, I'm the fourth strongest" The way Ulq works trying to make Ichigo loose hope and give in and etc. I truly believe he's lying. Simply trying to fuck with Ichigo's head.

    This is Bleach though so even using correctly applied logic anything could happen.

    Ichigo bankai = Byakuya bankai

    In fact we could all argue all night, using logic that we believe to be correct and still all be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if Tite in a future interview says: "Ulq 2nd release < espada 1/2/3" Then in a future data book says the opposite.
    Far too awesome for your eyes!

  10. #50
    Senior Member mixa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    That's a flawed argument. We know that Hollow Ichigo > Ulquiorra. Even if Kyouraku, Ukitaka and Yama are all > Ulquiorra, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're greater than Hollow Ichigo version 2. I've seen this argument put up many times, but it violates simple mathematical logic, I dunno why people keep repeating it.
    I can never bring myself to use even simple mathematical logic when trying to give ground to a theory in a world of a comic book aimed at kids.I always reduce my way of thinking bellow that otherwise no theory would be possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    Another flawed argument. Let's assume that Ulquiorra did not lie. Aizen may not have known about Segunda Etapa, but Ulquiorra did. Since he said that there are three stronger than he is even though he knows how powerful he is with Segunda Etapa, simple logic will say that, well, the top 3 are stronger than he is, even with Segunda Etapa.

    The only way that Ulquiorra is stronger than the Top 3 Espada is if he lied. And we don't have any reason to believe that he did.
    Well that is not so simple and yes we do.If we assume others have disputed Ulq the statement "There are still 3 others even more powerful than I " is not true.Espadas numbers go from 0 to 9,that is a fact and Ulq knew that and yet he stated that quote.My "If some character made a statement in manga and is apparently not lying nor character has a tendency to do so infact he never lies and other character didn't desputed his statement then the statement is considered a fact" logic says he lied because other statement from Yammy disproves it.if he is 4th and actually in "according to espadas rank I'm the fourth strongest" statement is also a lie.If he didn't lie he would say he is the 5th strongest espada.0,1,2,3,4 if you count 0 as a rank 1 he is 5th.The statements made later by others dispute his own.Ulq is a liar,he is the espada representing vanity acording to Barangar or whatever his name is,that's why he considers himself better from others but as we later find out he is because of his secret that no one disputed.

    Edit:I f****d myself In the last sentence but you know what I meant to say.
    Last edited by mixa; 05-22-2010 at 08:31 PM.
    Spoiler!

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