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  1. #41
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Since Rikudou brought Ninjutsu to the world, then the younger brother wouldn't need a summon, nor would one exist for him, unless the Rikudou also taught animals ninjutsu.

    Then of course, the siblings could have taught the animals, and then made them summons.
    Well, your forgetting one thing Bee, which is very important. Rikudou's Tiryagyoni path, (animal realm) could prolly summon all sorts of animals for whatever purpose needed by him. Much like how Killerbee has made friends with all the animals on that island, Rikudou would've had a far more easier time with them. Rikudou was basically one with nature before it was cool to be one with nature.

    It's possible that Rikudou had already chosen on the younger brother as his heir long before he finally made his decision on his deathbed and was kinda preparing him for it. Rikudou could've summoned toads, communicated with them the way Killerbee does, and taught them what they needed to know and asked them to guide the younger son.

  2. #42
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Okee Dokee

    Kishi never explained talking toads, cats, and dogs. Since not all Naruto dogs can talk for instance, these talking Kung-Fu animals must have had a Rikudou encounter at some time in the distant past. Probably taught them Ninjutsu too.

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  3. #43
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Okee Dokee

    Kishi never explained talking toads, cats, and dogs. Since not all Naruto dogs can talk for instance, these talking Kung-Fu animals must have had a Rikudou encounter at some time in the distant past. Probably taught them Ninjutsu too.
    Well right now we know of talking toads, pretty much all of them talk, slugs, only one which splits into thousands so far, but they all talk, snakes, the big boss manda talked, and only one dog talked so far. I can pretty much explain the toads, maybe even the slug as it is Tsunade's summon, who's a senju. The snake and dog talking are prolly just plot devices. Anyways, who knows what kind of control Rikudou would've had over the animals.

  4. #44
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ·Rokudaime Sennin· ™ View Post
    ok, Psukkar, tell me your thoughts.

    I have kinda changed my mind about Rikudou Sennin being the source of Sage mode and am more leaning towards the younger brother. Kishi loves using parallels and it would make more sense if the younger brother was the originator of Sage mode. Rikudou might've discovered natural chakra however it would've been the younger brother who would've perfected Sage mode.

    Rikudou = Nagato
    Elder = Sasuke
    Younger = Naruto

    So going with that it would be the younger brother who would have used Sage mode. I think the first toad sennin either ogama sennin or another one, was the younger brother's summon. Nagato himself had a chance to learn Sage mode under Jiraiya had he stayed under his tutelage and if he was a part of the village. But it was Naruto who finally learned and perfected it. So it's possible that Rikudou could've discovered natural energy and taught it to his younger son how to harness it, prolly created the oil waterfall at Myoboku, but it was the younger son who would've perfected Sage mode. This would make alot more sense to me as of now.

    Here's an interesting thread if you want.

    Spoiler!
    Yea this to me also makes more sense, this is why I liked your second theory you stated back when posted your theories on sage mode's orgins earlier.

    Also do you think this could have anything to do with this,

    Jiraiya had a very good affinity to the toads as he was able to come into contact with the toads even before signing a blood contact via the summoning technique. This could have something to with the degree of how well you are able to use natural energy. Though you could also argue this was fate as the toad sage predicted this would happen and same goes for Naruto in a way as he too ended up being the destined child which the toad sage predicted also. The toad sage didn't predicted it would be Naruto but he did predict it would be one of Jiraiya's students.
    Last edited by psukkar; 07-11-2010 at 12:48 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumokun View Post
    didnt the 4th hokage use sage mode aswell?
    Well no one has said hes actually used it.

    But I guess this will be finally answered once and for all soon, as the forth hokage is about to take on madara and the fox in the manga.
    Last edited by psukkar; 07-10-2010 at 11:30 AM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    I didn't want to start a new thread or anything because I see the toad sage mode being an important step for Naruto to become a complete sage like Madara(Uchiha+senju) will be with the rinnegan. Also this would be a good way for kishi to explain more about toad sage.

    Madara now has the following that makes him a complete So6P.
    1) So6P's power (Uchiha+senju)

    • A So6P body - Senju clan inherited.

    • Life force energy -Senju clan inherited

    • Spiritual energy - Uchiha clan inherited

    • So6P's chakra - Uchiha clan Inherited


    2)So6P's eyes (Rinnegan), Uchiha Madara has the sharingan so he needs the Rinnegan. The elder son inherited them from his father but the Uchiha clan did not. This the one key difference that keeps true to the fact that the Rinnegan is extremely rare and there aren't any clans filled with Rinnegans like the Uchiha clan with the sharingan.
    (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...2/page012.html)

    So alot are thinking either Sasuke or Naruto could pull a Madara and between them they could get some competition for madara.

    But I have 3 problems with this.
    1) Naruto killing Sasuke for his eyes, simply isn't his style and would make all that painful "your friend" stuff for nothing. Keep in mind he said he won't kill sasuke which at the time was painful to hear but after learning about what madara been up too I'm glad he said that.
    2) Naruto with a bloodline limit a eye techniques would bother the hell out of me.
    3) Don't you guys think it would sweet revenge if Madara got owned by someone without a bloodline limit considering all of that Madara talk of "can't touch me" attitude.

    I think Naruto ALREADY has got all the pieces to the puzzle to make a complete sage SIMILAR to Madara.

    Naruto is a distant blood relative to the senju.
    So this means Naruto has inherited something comparable to the So6P's body and the Uzumaki clan are blessed with a long life expectancy which can be translated into strong life force energy. This was particularly obvious when Naruto used the fox's pure chakra and his chakra now reacted with Yamato's wood jutsu. I'm guessing the extra chakra amplified his chakra's characteristics to be more like the senju clan, they are DISTANT relatives after all.

    He also just got a large amount of the fox's chakra which is the Yang(Spiritual) part, which is also a strong spiritual energy. Also Naruto is a Toad sage so he has sage eyes, obviously not the Rinnegan like the So6P but nevertheless.

    So Naruto has all the comparable components of the So6P's sons shared amongst each other from the So6P.

    1) A comparable So6P body as the Senju clan via his lineage with the Uzimaki clan.
    2) Life force energy also comparable to the one the Senju clan inherited.
    3) Spiritual energy thanks to the yang(spiritual) part of the fox's chakra. Again also could be comparable back to the Juubi and the So6P.
    4) Sage eye's via senjutsu, again not the same as So6P but sage eyes of sorts.
    6) And finally sage chakra also via senjutsu.

    I don't think nor want Naruto to be the next Sage of Six Paths but he certainly can be a Representative.

    Naruto is predicted to cause a great change to the Naruto world like the So6p did, but why does he have to be done old school style(So6P). Naruto is a new type of sage of his own right, in fact that would be great way to end the series whether Naruto lives or dies.
    Last edited by psukkar; 09-16-2010 at 06:10 AM.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Naruto >Yhea

    Well it seems to me like this discussion have changed from being about same mode requirements to a general discussion about sages. But anyways, after reading through all written so far this is my thoughts on everything:

    My theory is that Rikudou chose Ogama to be the keeper of the secret to entering sage mode. This due to the sons getting the different types of hes chakra. Creating some kind of balance. Or maybe Ogama was suppose to teach the sage mode to the younger son, but this did never happen because of the fighting between the younger and the older son.

    So that Ogama knows all about sage mode but choose to rather teach it to Pa and Ma(seeing it was not possible to teach it to any of the brothers). Therefore he is the Great Sage Toad, but still is not a real toad sage himself because he is not a wielder of sage mode.

    When it comes to th requirements I believe that its more to becoming a sage than: Large chakra and guts. Large chakra is required so that you won't get unbalanced so quickly and turn to stone. Guts is required so that you can complete the training on how to balance it. It just doesn't seem logic that there have only been 4 sages so far if that is all that is required. Ofc it takes enormous amounts of skill and concentration too, but Naruto can do it and he has almost no concentration at all, he can't even make a rasengan with one hand due to lack of concentration(of topic I know, but it's annoying). So i support the Natural Energy theory, that you need to a Natural Energy. But on the other hand, the theory about the toads not really wanting to teach away the technique to just anyone seems like a fairly good one too.

    The few numbers can be explained in the same matter as the rinnegan. I don't think Nagato is the reincarnation of Rikuduo, but is given to humanity/the shinobi as a "gift" or a rare power that is seen only in the darkest time, filled with the desperation to change. And this is why its so few that posses these powers. And that the Ogama was chosen to learn the secrets of it and teach it the saviors(or savior(Naruto)).

    When it comes to the toad statues, I don't know what to believe. Tho it's either just like the series put it, thats it people sucking in to much Natural Energy, or its a mix of toads and humans. The last theory would explain the size difference in them. Or that they are all human and the size is just a result of the amount they absorbed. The more they absorbed the bigger they got as statues.

    And just to be clear, this is just my thought's and theory's. I'm not saying this is how it is, but th way I feel is logic and fitting.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    And I will like to add that Madara now have the rinnegan and the sharingan

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