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  1. #11
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Wanna know what I think?

    You don't wanna know what I think, but I's tells ya anyways. I think Sage mode's origins are from Rikudou Sennin. There I saids it.
    Last edited by Rokudaime Sennin ™; 05-19-2010 at 06:26 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ·Rokudaime Sennin· ™ View Post
    Wanna know what I think?

    You don't wanna know what I think, but I's tells ya anyways. I think Sage mode's origins are from Rikudou Sennin. There I saids it.
    Thats not so far fetched , because there haven't been many toads that have become sages, so far all we know of is Ma and Pa frog and this is for the last 800 years.

    It's a shame we don't have a decent idea of how long ago did So6P live from the time in Naruto now.

  3. #13
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Ok, I elaborate. The two master Sages, Lord Fukasaku and his wife are 800 years old and Rikudou Sennin was a myth to even them. For legends to become myths, it takes least a couple generations to pass, that means that Rikudou Sennin existed prolly atleast 1000 years ago or more. The elder toad sage is a thousand years old atleast.

    So here's my wild mini theory. Since senjutsu is an addition to ninjutsu, one would suppose that the toads would've learned ninjutsu first. A thousand years ago, who would've taught the toads ninjutsu? Rikudou Sennin was the first to create ninjutsu. I'm assuming the first elder toad Sage, (I surmise that there were 2, the current one and one before him) knew Rikudou, either he was his summon or ally. Before his death, we know that Rikudou wrote down the jyubi's history on the tablet that was passed onto the elder son and his descendants the uchihas. But I think that Rikudou also gave some information to the first toad sage to pass onto the senjus. See, Rikudou kept most of the info on the tablet secret only to be read by the doujutsu Rinnegan. The tablet is read in succession, the sharingan, Mangekyou, and Rinnegan. So Rikudou could read it all, his elder son could read half of it, then as the lineage continues, they can read even lesser of it.

    So even still, only the ones with the doujutsu power could read any of it, this leaves out the senjus and any1 else with naked eyes who would just see a blank stone tablet. So I think that Rikudou sensed that he would be reborn in the future and he would have to achieve his original goal of bringing peace/destruction to the world, the reason the heavens gave him the power of the rinnegan to begin with. In order to keep the information secret like he did on the tablet, he must've told his trustee toad (1st toad sage) the secrets of his rebirth and the secrets of the Sage chakra and this would in time become the prophecy the toads believed in for so long.

    Let's be honest here, does any1 really think that the toads were trying to teach senjutsu to ninjas who weren't closely related to the senju clan. I think the requirements for Sage mode for humans need to be modified a bit, you need a large pool of chakra and "the will of fire". Both that Jiraiya and Naruto possessed. All this time, the toads were looking for the right person who would fit the prophecy, trying to train them with senjutsu arts and they all kept failing. (Maybe they didn't believe he would have the rinnegan or that info became lost). So this is where Nagato and Naruto come in, Nagato being the Rikudou's reincarnation and Naruto being his descendant. Nagato would've been able to read the tablet fully, and being Jiraiya's first student, Senjutsu arts were meant for him originally, to prepare him for his task of bringing salvation to the world. However circumstances intervened and Nagato became disillusioned about the prospects of peace and sought another way, being manipulated by Madara. Then it was meant for Minato, Jiraiya's second prized pupil, who also made a contract with the toads but died before he could fully learn the secrets of the toads. Then finally Naruto is the one who perfects it, and he's the one who's going to finish what the original Sage, Rikudou Sennin, and his reincarnation Nagato, both failed to achieve, true longlasting peace.

    I can guarantee you, the toads have alot more information to offer to Naruto once he's fully ready about pretty much the whole history. Go ahead, make fun of the theory if ya like. I like the idea, Rikudou Sennin is the cornerstone of this manga, everything started with him, and it'll all end with our village idiot, the Rokudaime Sennin Naruto.

    Second Theory: The first toad sage was the younger brothers summon and Sage mode was also used by the younger brother to keep up with the elder's greater powers.

  4. #14
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ·Rokudaime Sennin· ™ View Post
    Ok, I elaborate. The two master Sages, Lord Fukasaku and his wife are 800 years old and Rikudou Sennin was a myth to even them. For legends to become myths, it takes least a couple generations to pass, that means that Rikudou Sennin existed prolly atleast 1000 years ago or more. The elder toad sage is a thousand years old atleast.

    So here's my wild mini theory. Since senjutsu is an addition to ninjutsu, one would suppose that the toads would've learned ninjutsu first. A thousand years ago, who would've taught the toads ninjutsu? Rikudou Sennin was the first to create ninjutsu. I'm assuming the first elder toad Sage, (I surmise that there were 2, the current one and one before him) knew Rikudou, either he was his summon or ally. Before his death, we know that Rikudou wrote down the jyubi's history on the tablet that was passed onto the elder son and his descendants the uchihas. But I think that Rikudou also gave some information to the first toad sage to pass onto the senjus. See, Rikudou kept most of the info on the tablet secret only to be read by the doujutsu Rinnegan. The tablet is read in succession, the sharingan, Mangekyou, and Rinnegan. So Rikudou could read it all, his elder son could read half of it, then as the lineage continues, they can read even lesser of it.

    So even still, only the ones with the doujutsu power could read any of it, this leaves out the senjus and any1 else with naked eyes who would just see a blank stone tablet. So I think that Rikudou sensed that he would be reborn in the future and he would have to achieve his original goal of bringing peace/destruction to the world, the reason the heavens gave him the power of the rinnegan to begin with. In order to keep the information secret like he did on the tablet, he must've told his trustee toad (1st toad sage) the secrets of his rebirth and the secrets of the Sage chakra and this would in time become the prophecy the toads believed in for so long.

    Let's be honest here, does any1 really think that the toads were trying to teach senjutsu to ninjas who weren't closely related to the senju clan. I think the requirements for Sage mode for humans need to be modified a bit, you need a large pool of chakra and "the will of fire". Both that Jiraiya and Naruto possessed. All this time, the toads were looking for the right person who would fit the prophecy, trying to train them with senjutsu arts and they all kept failing. (Maybe they didn't believe he would have the rinnegan or that info became lost). So this is where Nagato and Naruto come in, Nagato being the Rikudou's reincarnation and Naruto being his descendant. Nagato would've been able to read the tablet fully, and being Jiraiya's first student, Senjutsu arts were meant for him originally, to prepare him for his task of bringing salvation to the world. However circumstances intervened and Nagato became disillusioned about the prospects of peace and sought another way, being manipulated by Madara. Then it was meant for Minato, Jiraiya's second prized pupil, who also made a contract with the toads but died before he could fully learn the secrets of the toads. Then finally Naruto is the one who perfects it, and he's the one who's going to finish what the original Sage, Rikudou Sennin, and his reincarnation Nagato, both failed to achieve, true longlasting peace.

    I can guarantee you, the toads have alot more information to offer to Naruto once he's fully ready about pretty much the whole history. Go ahead, make fun of the theory if ya like. I like the idea, Rikudou Sennin is the cornerstone of this manga, everything started with him, and it'll all end with our village idiot, the Rokudaime Sennin Naruto.

    Second Theory: The first toad sage was the younger brothers summon and Sage mode was also used by the younger brother to keep up with the elder's greater powers.
    I think both your thoeries are plauisble because the toads are oldest characters we know of and if anyone had contact with the So6P in anyway it would have been a toad given how old the toads can live to. Also if the So6p did hand down secects about sage chakra to only his specfic summons it would explain why only a few toads can use sage mode, let alone human shinobi.

    Shame that elder toad sage has memory issues he's 1000+ years old I would love to know what his recollection of the So6P is.

  5. #15
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    @ Rokudaime Sennin
    Spoiler!


    .. case closed. I'm just freakin out, how similiar are thoughts are about Naruto Manga. Your theory is " The Theory ".
    No what if or maybe, because what you just said; is common sense for me. Just saying..

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    I think both your thoeries are plauisble because the toads are oldest characters we know of and if anyone had contact with the So6P in anyway it would have been a toad given how old the toads can live to. Also if the So6p did hand down secects about sage chakra to only his specfic summons it would explain why only a few toads can use sage mode, let alone human shinobi.

    Shame that elder toad sage has memory issues he's 1000+ years old I would love to know what his recollection of the So6P is.
    .. It's not both, Rokudaime's theory is by far, the best explanation you can get about Rikudou and Toads. Some people said to me, that Nagato isn't the re-incarnation of the God: Rikudou Sennin.

    - I'm still confused, how they think that he isn't..? and thats only a little detail of everything else.
    ... You're Dead 2 Me Now ...

  6. #16
    Spoiler!
    AWESOME
    I am an artist, and my medium is death. I'm about to create my masterpiece :s



    Fan of the Rasengan Doujutsu theory, even though it's dead. Although, he does have the special Uzumaki clan blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Because he's the hero the shinobi world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Naruto.

  7. #17
    Initiate terror boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ·Rokudaime Sennin· ™ View Post
    Ok, I elaborate. The two master Sages, Lord Fukasaku and his wife are 800 years old and Rikudou Sennin was a myth to even them. For legends to become myths, it takes least a couple generations to pass, that means that Rikudou Sennin existed prolly atleast 1000 years ago or more. The elder toad sage is a thousand years old atleast.

    So here's my wild mini theory. Since senjutsu is an addition to ninjutsu, one would suppose that the toads would've learned ninjutsu first. A thousand years ago, who would've taught the toads ninjutsu? Rikudou Sennin was the first to create ninjutsu. I'm assuming the first elder toad Sage, (I surmise that there were 2, the current one and one before him) knew Rikudou, either he was his summon or ally. Before his death, we know that Rikudou wrote down the jyubi's history on the tablet that was passed onto the elder son and his descendants the uchihas. But I think that Rikudou also gave some information to the first toad sage to pass onto the senjus. See, Rikudou kept most of the info on the tablet secret only to be read by the doujutsu Rinnegan. The tablet is read in succession, the sharingan, Mangekyou, and Rinnegan. So Rikudou could read it all, his elder son could read half of it, then as the lineage continues, they can read even lesser of it.

    So even still, only the ones with the doujutsu power could read any of it, this leaves out the senjus and any1 else with naked eyes who would just see a blank stone tablet. So I think that Rikudou sensed that he would be reborn in the future and he would have to achieve his original goal of bringing peace/destruction to the world, the reason the heavens gave him the power of the rinnegan to begin with. In order to keep the information secret like he did on the tablet, he must've told his trustee toad (1st toad sage) the secrets of his rebirth and the secrets of the Sage chakra and this would in time become the prophecy the toads believed in for so long.

    Let's be honest here, does any1 really think that the toads were trying to teach senjutsu to ninjas who weren't closely related to the senju clan. I think the requirements for Sage mode for humans need to be modified a bit, you need a large pool of chakra and "the will of fire". Both that Jiraiya and Naruto possessed. All this time, the toads were looking for the right person who would fit the prophecy, trying to train them with senjutsu arts and they all kept failing. (Maybe they didn't believe he would have the rinnegan or that info became lost). So this is where Nagato and Naruto come in, Nagato being the Rikudou's reincarnation and Naruto being his descendant. Nagato would've been able to read the tablet fully, and being Jiraiya's first student, Senjutsu arts were meant for him originally, to prepare him for his task of bringing salvation to the world. However circumstances intervened and Nagato became disillusioned about the prospects of peace and sought another way, being manipulated by Madara. Then it was meant for Minato, Jiraiya's second prized pupil, who also made a contract with the toads but died before he could fully learn the secrets of the toads. Then finally Naruto is the one who perfects it, and he's the one who's going to finish what the original Sage, Rikudou Sennin, and his reincarnation Nagato, both failed to achieve, true longlasting peace.

    I can guarantee you, the toads have alot more information to offer to Naruto once he's fully ready about pretty much the whole history. Go ahead, make fun of the theory if ya like. I like the idea, Rikudou Sennin is the cornerstone of this manga, everything started with him, and it'll all end with our village idiot, the Rokudaime Sennin Naruto.

    Second Theory: The first toad sage was the younger brothers summon and Sage mode was also used by the younger brother to keep up with the elder's greater powers.
    man u rock.. are u kishimoto itself,..he he
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  8. #18
    Cockney Geezer
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    Quote Originally Posted by ·Rokudaime Sennin· ™ View Post
    ...
    I can guarantee you, the toads have alot more information to offer to Naruto once he's fully ready about pretty much the whole history. Go ahead, make fun of the theory if ya like. I like the idea, Rikudou Sennin is the cornerstone of this manga, everything started with him, and it'll all end with our village idiot, the Rokudaime Sennin Naruto.

    Second Theory: The first toad sage was the younger brothers summon and Sage mode was also used by the younger brother to keep up with the elder's greater powers.

    Agreed.

    What if Rikudou Sennin was actually the Grandpa toad himself... that would be very interesting. For Rikudou to be immortal he would turn himself into a toad and create a place like toad village... waiting for a saviour.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ng.jimmy View Post
    Agreed.

    What if Rikudou Sennin was actually the Grandpa toad himself... that would be very interesting. For Rikudou to be immortal he would turn himself into a toad and create a place like toad village... waiting for a saviour.
    But that would mean that he went senile and forgot what he was supposed to be doing...
    I am an artist, and my medium is death. I'm about to create my masterpiece :s



    Fan of the Rasengan Doujutsu theory, even though it's dead. Although, he does have the special Uzumaki clan blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorofasgard13 View Post
    Because he's the hero the shinobi world deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Naruto.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    I think that the statues are not of Ninja who have failed the training, but of toads that drew in too much Natural energy.

    The reason for me thinking this is when the Fat pain turned into a stone frog, he did not grow in size at all. The frog statues are HUGE and the big ones are about the size of Bunta, the others smaller and fitting toads various sizes and ages. Gamakichi was able to sense Fukusaku draw in a huge amount of energy before he lifted one of the statues, so he had IMO some natural energy training. Another thing is that Fukusaku said when Naruto knocked the frog stautues over, "dont disrespect our forefathers" (or something similar).

    So some Ninja's may have had attempted the training and failed, but most of the statues are of Toads or other massive animals, as they are too big to be human.

    I do like the idea about the toads/sage mode being the 'tablet' of the Senju since they cant hide something so only their eyes can see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
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