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  1. #1
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    [Theory] Sage mode requirements

    Lately I have been thinking about sage mode and it's origins and something interesting came to my attention when I did some extra manga reading on sage mode and the toads.

    ONLY 4 shinobi have used toad sage mode that we are aware of, this is quite staggering. Naruto and Jiraiya are the sages of recent times and the previous other two sages are Ma and Pa frog and they are approx 800 YEARS OLD. So at least 800 years has past until the next two sages appeared (Naruto and Jiraiya). As you can see there's a very short list to the toad sage club. There have been a lot of shinobi that have failed in the past, all the frog stone statues at the toad mountain. Compare this to the MS sharingan users and they have had 4(madara,Izuna,Itachi and Sasuke) occurrences of it in the past 90 YEARS, although it wasn't until 90 years ago that Madara and Izuna were the first to activate the MS it never the less has a higher rate of probability of it compared to 2 sages over 800 years between Ma/Pa frog and Jiraiya/Naruto.

    So far all we know about sage mode is you need large amounts of chakra as natural energy easily takes over small chakra reserves users AND guts(the will to never give up, interesting enough that's Naruto and Jiraiya's ideology of how a ninja should live). Surely there must have been shinobi in the past with those attributes and yet so many have failed. Not even many toads can use toad sage mode, only Pa and Ma frog can use it so a toad contract doesn't increase the chances either. There is also the Great Toad Sage (大ガマ仙人, Ōgama Sennin) but more on him latter.

    "Sage" can also refer to an individual renowned for their great power, wisdom, or holy standing. I think the Great Toad Sage is called a sage because hes lived a long time and with age(1000+) comes wisdom, also lets not forget he can see the future in his dreams adding to his all knowing demeanor. Similarly the Sage of Six Paths also could have been called a sage for same reasons. He was the first to understand the mysteries of chakra illustrating his wisdom, which back then would have looked godlike among others. Not to mention he had great power to save the world from the Jubi and got even more power after he became its host. And finally he also was a holy man, he originally was Monk and started to preach a his own religion, Nin-shuu which later became modern ninjutsu but used for power not peace like the So6P intended.
    (Naruto 446 | Read naruto chapter 446 manga online | Manga Share, Naruto 446 | Read naruto chapter 446 manga online | Manga Share)

    So I'm assuming, the Great Toad Sage and the Sage of 6 paths are sages because of their wisdom/power/holiness. Other wise you'd think pa frog would mention the Great Toad Sage as one of Naruto's predecessor of sage mode. But I can be wrong, if either one of them are shown using toad sage mode in the future.

    There must be a unique requirement to use toad sage mode similar to bloodline limits, only time will tell.Some people think that toad sage mode is a bloodline limit but there has been 4 toad sages all of which are NOT GENETICALLY RELATED. So bloodline limit is NOT the ANSWER to describe this rarity in the history of Naruto. Another possible theory, maybe just like how a shinobi has an affinity to a certain nature chakra element like wind, a shinobi may need an affinity to natural energy to use it with his own chakra and therefore enter sage mode. This could explain why only 4 shinobi in the history of Naruto have used toad sage mode. This actually doesn't sound so far fetched as you can have an affinity to a certain animal to use it as a summoning. Jiraiya had a very good affinity to the toads as he was able to come into contact with the toads even before signing a blood contact via the summoning technique. This could have something to with the degree of how well you are able to use natural energy. Though you could also argue this was fate as the toad sage predicted this would happen and same goes for Naruto in a way, as he too ended up being the destined child which the toad sage predicted also. The toad sage didn't predicted it would be Naruto but he did predict it would be one of Jiraiya's students.

    I think this is quite interesting and I'm hoping Kishi elaborates more about Sage Mode's origins.

    Here are some to other ideas Ive had about sage mode you may find interesting.

    SAGE MODE, Naruto's KEY to becoming a COMPLETE SAGE
    Spoiler!


    SAGE MODE + FOX MODE COMBO MODE
    Spoiler!


    SAGE MODE and NATURE TRANSFORMATIONS of chakra
    Spoiler!


    SENSORY NINJA ABILITIES VS SAGE MODE SENSING ABILITIES
    Spoiler!
    Last edited by psukkar; 04-09-2011 at 03:20 AM. Reason: typos
    The Master's Legacy



    If a theory can't explain the mysteries of the past, it has little chance to explain the mysteries of the present and future.

  2. #2
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    didnt the 4th hokage use sage mode aswell?

  3. #3
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    First, we don't know if there were only four shinobi who could use Sage mode.

    Second, there's no such thing as an affinity to Natural energy. If there were, then Naruto wouldn't have had to worry about turning to stone.

    Sage mode's requirements are exactly what was stated to us: Large chakra and guts. Large chakra is required so that you won't get unbalanced so quickly and turn to stone. Guts is required so that you can complete the training on how to balance it. There are also 2 other hidden requirements: That you know the way to Myoubokuzan and that the frogs would be willing to teach you. I don't think there's any reason to believe that there are other requirements aside from meeting those four.

  4. #4
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    First, we don't know if there were only four shinobi who could use Sage mode.

    Second, there's no such thing as an affinity to Natural energy. If there were, then Naruto wouldn't have had to worry about turning to stone.

    Sage mode's requirements are exactly what was stated to us: Large chakra and guts. Large chakra is required so that you won't get unbalanced so quickly and turn to stone. Guts is required so that you can complete the training on how to balance it. There are also 2 other hidden requirements: That you know the way to Myoubokuzan and that the frogs would be willing to teach you. I don't think there's any reason to believe that there are other requirements aside from meeting those four.
    You need a large amount of chakra to draw in large amounts of natural energy. If you don't draw in enough nature energy you won't enter sage mode. The ablity of balancing the two is something differernt altogether which requires skill in chakra control.

    I said theory not fact with regards to nature energy affinity. And just because you have an affinity nature energy deosn't mean you wouldn't have to worry about turning into stone. For example the same way you have to train and master your elemental affinity, having an elemental affinity just makes it easier to do the training.

    I agree with you about being taugh by someone who has worked out how do it increases your chances alot. But you haven't really addressed the rarity of the Toad sages throughout Naruto history. So far we haven't been told there are toad sages before Pa and Ma frog and they are approx 800 years old. Pa frog said the stone statues were the ones who have failed the training before them. And these statues are located at the toad mountain, so simply finding the toad mountain doesn't help. And whos to say you need to be at the toad mountaion to learn sage mode, only the toad oil can be found/used at the mooutain which is only used to speed up the training, it can be done without the oil and therefore outside the toad mountain.
    Last edited by psukkar; 05-18-2010 at 02:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    You need to be at Myoubokuzan to learn sage mode because the toads are there. Unless we see people with sage mode in the future, we're going to have to assume that sage mode only comes from the frogs at Myoubokuzan.

    The rarity means nothing, at least for now. It could just mean that the frogs don't want to teach any random ninja a technique as powerful as sage mode, and of those that they've decided to teach, not everyone passed. Alternatively, they could not have perfected the training until Jiraiya's time there.

  6. #6
    SIMS for short >:] StareIntoMySharingan's Avatar
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    it's origin was buddha, read your manga.
    And witness the sparkle within this world of darkness.
    http://mangashare.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic54294_1.gif


  7. #7
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    You need a large amount of chakra to draw in large amounts of natural energy. If you don't draw in enough nature energy you won't enter sage mode. The ablity of balancing the two is something differernt altogether which requires skill in chakra control.
    Eh, that's a cause and effect fallacy. You're reversing your cause and effect. The effect is drawing in large amounts of natural energy while the cause is you having a large amount of chakra and that you have to balance their amounts. Not the other way around.

    The cause for why you need a large amount of chakra on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. The most logical explanation is that if you only have a little chakra, it's easy to make a mistake and draw in too much, especially with toad oil on.

  8. #8
    ɹǝʎʍɐן Я I Hand Banana's Avatar
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    kuroihikari kills another thread before I could even troll it. Fuck. nice work man. I'm getting too old for this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    kuroihikari kills another thread before I could even troll it. Fuck. nice work man. I'm getting too old for this.
    Hey banana, you again. Lol stoping even looking at forums lol, not willing to say anything with meaning, then don't say anything at all. And how are old are u exactly? And I think you cltr V that post because Ive seen you type in other places aswell. It seems you go around posting that for the yell of it. I gotta admit its a good way to rack up the post count.
    Last edited by psukkar; 05-19-2010 at 05:07 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StareIntoMySharingan View Post
    it's origin was buddha, read your manga.
    I meant orgins as in the Naruto world.

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