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  1. #1
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    How did the 1st Hokage defeat Uchiha Madara?

    There's a lot mystery regarding this fight, so I just thought I'd share my thoughts on this fight.

    A DETAILED flashback is required to know how this fight went down. I think a movie on this these two clans would BE PREFECT.

    There are few things I noticed about this battle and the pages leading up to the page we saw (Madara x Fox) vs Hashirama.

    The thing I wondered about this fight is why did Madara even summon/call the fox to the fight?

    Based from the flashback pages it was made as through Madara and Hashirama were near equals and they have fought many times. So if in fact they were rivals in terms of power that would explain why they survived the many encounters they fought.

    So I reenacted how I think the fight went down.

    Spoiler!


    Buuj theory
    Spoiler!


    New Ideas about the first hokages powers and fight run down
    Spoiler!


    Madara statement regarding his purpose of fighting the first hokage at the valley of the end and its implications.

    Spoiler!


    Here are other scary notions of what Hashirama had to deal with, the Fox had hes FULL powers this was before the Forth sealed half of the Fox's chakra and we all know what 6-8 tails can do from Naruto. Also as stated by Itachi when you gain EMS you get a NEW technique. And based from the sharingan techniques we've seen already it's most likely another bullshit technique. Pretty astounding stuff.

    Again please remember this is just SPECULATION. Thanks to the recent information about the fox I was able to think up of decent reenactment of the fight.

    Amongst all the mystery lying around this fight one thing has been answered about the degree of control the first hokage has over the tailed beasts. The first hokage could not control the fox's mind to order it around like Madara does via the sharingan. He could only suppress it's chakra and therefore he needed it in a person to control it completely to help him and konoha in the future (Like what Naruto does for Konoha now), otherwise why would he need Mito to seal the fox in within herself if he could control the fox like Madara.
    Last edited by psukkar; 07-15-2011 at 04:47 PM. Reason: typos
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  2. #2
    An arc on the uchiha senju feud would blow my mind.

    But I don't think the first had a hard time with the kyuubi. Everyone says the only 2 that could really control them were madara and the 1st. The 1st gave out tailed beasts to other villages. After that fight with madara he put the leash on the kyuubi and walked him home.

  3. #3
    shiro merciless's Avatar
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    Uhm madara gained the EMS long before the village of konoha was formed, so he already fought him/senju bunch of times with EMS

  4. #4
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    It's hard to say for sure based from the info we got in the manga.
    But it could be possible they might have fought some time after madara took he's brother's eyes and before the truce from the senju.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    It's hard to say for sure based from the info we got in the manga.
    But it could be possible they might have fought some time after madara took he's brother's eyes and before the truce from the senju.
    It isn't hard to say based on the info from the manga. Actually, the manga makes it pretty clear that Madara (with his EMS) and the 1st fought many times before their final battle at the VoTE. It's all in chapter 398 and 399. So EMS was no secret to the 1st which could only mean that EMS provided no significant advantage to Madara in that fight. At least not any advantage that the 1st wasn't able to overcome.

    There's no secret or anything as to how the 1st beat Madara. The 1st just brought the beatdown. He had the abilities to deal with the Kyuubi as shown in the full page spread showing a glimpse of the battle. The 1st summoned trees and roots to hold the Kyuubi down. Couple that with his ability to suppress Bijuu, the Kyuubi becomes a non-factor in that fight. Then it's an old fashioned, one on one fight to the death between Madara with his EMS and Fire element (+ whatever else he was capable of), and the 1st with his Wood, Water, and Earth element (+ whatever else he could do). And based on what we know, it seems the 1st was the better fighter that day.

  6. #6
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    Its not that complicated as Afro has stated. It's most likely that Madara lost his composure due to the emotional backlash of having what you considered your family abandon you for your enemy, and he probably lost his momentum in battle after his Kyuubi rampage was foiled. Those 2 factors plus the fact that Hashirama and Madara were evenly matched, could have easily tipped the scale to the First's favor.
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  7. #7
    Half Man Half Amazin' Phixion's Avatar
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    Didn't they mention that the 1st had control over the tailed beasts 1 to 8? And he later distributed those over the multiple countries/villages. Iirc this was the case, so he could easily beat the 9 tails with this.

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  8. #8
    Oh Em Gee! Raymond Agustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
    Didn't they mention that the 1st had control over the tailed beasts 1 to 8? And he later distributed those over the multiple countries/villages. Iirc this was the case, so he could easily beat the 9 tails with this.
    Ah, I read that he kept 2 of the Tail Beast under his disposal to maintain order of the Ninja World and to stop future Wars.

    It's not really clear how he did it though lol.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phixion View Post
    Didn't they mention that the 1st had control over the tailed beasts 1 to 8? And he later distributed those over the multiple countries/villages. Iirc this was the case, so he could easily beat the 9 tails with this.
    It was left ambiguous as to exactly how many Bijuu the 1st had under his control before he distributed them across the Narutoverse. But using simple math, he had at least 5 for sure under his control back then. We just don't know if the 1st distributed them before or after the fight with Madara. I'm gonna assume they were handed out before the fight occurred though. If Madara was smart back then, that would have been the best time to initiate an attack on Konoha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Agustin View Post
    Ah, I read that he kept 2 of the Tail Beast under his disposal to maintain order of the Ninja World and to stop future Wars.

    It's not really clear how he did it though lol.
    I don't think it was stated anywhere in the manga that the 1st kept 2 Bijuu under his control. But I would assume that he would have at least kept the Kyuubi for Konoha (if the Kyuubi was one of the Bijuu he had in his possession).

  10. #10
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    It isn't hard to say based on the info from the manga. Actually, the manga makes it pretty clear that Madara (with his EMS) and the 1st fought many times before their final battle at the VoTE. It's all in chapter 398 and 399. So EMS was no secret to the 1st which could only mean that EMS provided no significant advantage to Madara in that fight. At least not any advantage that the 1st wasn't able to overcome.

    There's no secret or anything as to how the 1st beat Madara. The 1st just brought the beatdown. He had the abilities to deal with the Kyuubi as shown in the full page spread showing a glimpse of the battle. The 1st summoned trees and roots to hold the Kyuubi down. Couple that with his ability to suppress Bijuu, the Kyuubi becomes a non-factor in that fight. Then it's an old fashioned, one on one fight to the death between Madara with his EMS and Fire element (+ whatever else he was capable of), and the 1st with his Wood, Water, and Earth element (+ whatever else he could do). And based on what we know, it seems the 1st was the better fighter that day.
    The manga did show they did fight many times but that was before madara took he's brothers eyes. Then all we saw after that was the truce from the senju.

    I guess it all depends how literally your willing to take the order of events shown in the Manga. Only reason I took them quite literally is because we don't have any other info apart from when he was talking to Sasuke about his past.

    Mangekyo Sharingan techniques aren't are simple matter to counter, we've seen Tyksomi and very few people broke out of it. The black flames are an absolute joke, itachi used them to beat a fire technique. Using fire to beat fire is ridiculous so those black flames are clearly not normal so I doubt the first's water moves would do anything. Sussano is one of those absolute defense/attack but I think the first could have dealt with this. Also as stated by Itachi when u gain ems you get a NEW technique. And based from the techniques we've seen already it's most likely another voodoo technique.

    This thread isn't trying to doubt the first winning, he won and I'm happy about it goes to show the sharingan can be beat. What mystifies me is what kind of powers did the first have, he must have been real BOSS, this thread is just trying to put the fight into a realistic perspective.
    Last edited by psukkar; 04-11-2010 at 02:19 PM.

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