How did the 1st Hokage defeat Uchiha Madara?

[psukkar]

I wouldn't say that, obviously he was strong but I think the reason he defeated Madara has more to do with him having the right skill set than him being the strongest in general. His skills seem to have been well suited towards fighting Madara. Hashirama’s bloodline along with his elements, his ability to control bijuu, and the fact that his wife was able to seal the Kyuubi gave him and edge. Hashirama also had the benefit of knowing Madara well through repeated combat. That doesn't necessarily mean that he was stronger than all the other Hokages though it just means they have a different set of skills. Hashirama was better equiped to stop the Kyuubi than Sarutobi or Minato, under the circumstance, but that doesn’t mean he would beat them if they were to fight because his skills might not be able to counter theirs as effectively.

Whats Mito got to do with fighting Madara? They sealed the kyubi in Mito after he took control of the Kyubi during the fight. Look at this, some guys are getting confused because managstream's translation made it a bit difficult to tell the difference, but if you look at the translation from onemanga its clearer why as to why they resorted to sealing the kyubi in Mito.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/500/05/

The first hokage could not control the fox's mind to order it around like Madara does via the sharingan. He could only suppress it's chakra and therefore he needed it in a person to control it completely to help him and konoha in the future (Like what Naruto does for Konoha now). That reminds me I should put that in the original thread this new info about the first's abilities.

[Stev3child]

in the fight NOT during the FIGHT.

In the fight=during the fight.

[psukkar]

In the fight=during the fight.

woops typos lol

I should change that

[Stev3child]

Do you mean after the fight?

[artifice]

Whats Mito got to do with fighting Madara? They sealed the kyubi in Mito after he took control of the Kyubi during the fight. They didn't sealed the fox after the fight. Look at this, some guys are getting confused because managstream made it a bit difficult to tell the difference, but if you look that the translation at onemanga its clear why Mito agreed to seal the fox in her.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/500/05/

The first hokage could not control the fox's mind to order it around like Madara does via the sharingan. He could only suppress it's chakra and therefore he needed it in a person to control it completely( Like Naruto does for Konoha now). That reminds I should put that in the original thread this new info about the first's abilities.

I don't understand what you are trying to say, it says that Mito sealed it in herself to harness its power, I don't see anything that says she sealed it after the fight.

[psukkar]

I don't understand what you are trying to say, it says that Mito sealed it in herself to harness its power, I don't see anything that says she sealed it after the fight.

When it says "harness the power", it means to use it in a practical manner, to use it's chakra for the future battles.

For Konoha's sake not for his at the time of the fight.
I'm fairly certain that's what kushina is trying to say, shes trying to explain how konoha got the fox to begin with as a matter of fact, not the circumstances of how it happened.

Look how long it took Naruto to control the fox, to think Mito would have been able to do it then and there then start fighting seems way to far fetched. Also its just doesn't seem like a good move to get Mito in between Madara, the fox and first and try to seal it during a fight of this level. I guess a flashback like the one we are getting for forth hokage would tell us for sure. Which by the way I think will come because it would add to the story as we would find out how Madara survived, if tobi really ends up being Madara that is.

[artifice]

When it says "harness the power", it means to use it in a practical manner, to use it's chakra for the future battles.

For Konoha's sake not for his at the time of the fight.
I'm fairly certain that's what kushina is trying to say, shes trying to explain how konoha got the fox to begin with as a matter of fact, not the circumstances of how it happened.

Look how long it took Naruto to control the fox, to think Mito would have been able to do it then and there then start fighting seems way to far fetched.

Yes, but I didn't suggest that she gained control of it during that battle, only that she sealed it, removing it as an obstacle to Hashirama. We have seen that the tailed beasts are sometimes sealed in the heat of battle so I don't see why that wouldn't have been a possibility. I agree that she didn't likely turn the fox on Madara then and there but I don't see why she wouldn't have been able to get it out of the equation by sealing it.

Also its just doesn't seem like a good move to get Mito in between Madara, the fox and first and try to seal it during a fight of this level. I guess a flashback like the one we are getting for forth hokage would tell us for sure. Which by the way I think will come because it would add to the story as we would find out how Madara survived, if tobi really ends up being Madara that is.

That depends on a lot of different factors. I agree it was doubtlessly a dangerous situation but all the more reason to make a bold move. Mito wasn't likely a helpless spectator, her assisting her husband in battle by taking the Kyuubi out of the picture makes sense to me. If Hashirama was struggling to control the Kyuubi he likely wouldn't be able to face Madara at top form. The very concept of Hashirama doing all the work while the whole village is under attack makes less sense than the ulterative of others assisting in some form. As we are seeing now in the current chapters with Minato facing Madara he is leaving the 3rd to handle the Kyuubi for now while he deals with Madara. So even though the one remembered most distinctly for stoping the Kyuubi is Minato it doesn't mean that others did not assist. I think it is quite likely that a similar situation happened when Madara fought with Hashirama.

[psukkar]

Yes, but I didn't suggest that she gained control of it during that battle, only that she sealed it, removing it as an obstacle to Hashirama. We have seen that the tailed beasts are sometimes sealed in the heat of battle so I don't see why that wouldn't have been a possibility. I agree that she didn't likely turn the fox on Madara then and there but I don't see why she wouldn't have been able to get it out of the equation by sealing it.



That depends on a lot of different factors. I agree it was doubtlessly a dangerous situation but all the more reason to make a bold move. Mito wasn't likely a helpless spectator, her assisting her husband in battle by taking the Kyuubi out of the picture makes sense to me. If Hashirama was struggling to control the Kyuubi he likely wouldn't be able to face Madara at top form. The very concept of Hashirama doing all the work while the whole village is under attack makes less sense than the ulterative of others assisting in some form. As we are seeing now in the current chapters with Minato facing Madara he is leaving the 3rd to handle the Kyuubi for now while he deals with Madara. So even though the one remembered most distinctly for stoping the Kyuubi is Minato it doesn't mean that others did not assist. I think it is quite likely that a similar situation happened when Madara fought with Hashirama.

I agree with you here, I didn't realize what u meant by how Mito helped the first hokage during the fight. What you said is quite plausible, in fact this would explain a lot as what happened to the fox after the first suppressed it. Also another possibility is the first hokage completely halted/paralyzed the fox similar to that seal Yamato placed on Naruto as he entered 6-tail form but obviously a lot more powerful.

I also just wanted to tell you, I think you simply just forgot, this fight happened at the Valley of the End. Which I think is somewhere near the borders of the land of fire. This changes the dynamics a bit compared to the situation with the forth and the third. In this situation the first hokage is free to unload so to speak without worrying about the village. I'm thinking for Mito to get involved she would have been a great shinobi if you was to get in between these guys at there best.

[artifice]

I also just wanted to tell you, I think you simply just forgot, this fight happened at the Valley of the End. Which I think is somewhere near the borders of the land of fire. This changes the dynamics a bit compared to the situation with the forth and the third. In this situation the first hokage is free to unload so to speak without worrying about the village. I'm thinking for Mito to get involved she would have been a great shinobi if you was to get in between these guys at there best.

Yes, that's true, the proximity issue would definitely make it a different situation but what I am saying is that other ninja still could have played a role. Other ninja being aware of such a large scale battle would make sense. I assume Mito was a great ninja considering she was the the Kyuubi's host and Hashirama's wife but from what I gathered from what was briefly mentioned of her involvement it doesn't sound like she fought directly. Hopefully we will eventually get the full story on what exactly went down during that enounter, similar to what we are seeing now with Minato's battle.

[paulbee]

If Madara brought the Kyuubi to the Final battle at VOTE, then it would seem unlikely that Mito would have had the time to seal the Fox in herself, and then used it in a fight. Furthermore, if she did that, it would have no longer been a One on One fight.

I had always pictured the VOTE fight as a Duel, winner takes all.


What Intrigues me is , How did Hashirama overcome Madara's "Can't touch this defense", and how did he avoid being sucked into another dimension. Obviously you can do it if you're very fast like the Fourth, or have some sort of ready to go technique like Danzo's Root Guy.

Somehow I don't see Hashirama as having Yondaime's level of speed. I'm guessing he had some ready to go mokuton ability. Madara's ability is easier to ccounter when he has to attack .