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  1. #91
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I can't remember which chapter but Tobi was either telling Konan, Sasuke, or Naruto, Kakashi, and Yamato (kage summit) that Hashirama did indeed KILL Madara. There could very well be reasons for Tobi to be lying about this but I am inclined to believe it. I am also in agreement with Rlinfamous about the sheer overwhelming power of the mokuton and the way it can "tug of war" bijuu chakra with the sharingan. I also suspect Hashirama had access to the bijuu bomb in some way along side some yet to be revealed inherited weapons from so6p family lineage. There is so much inherited by the Uchiha in regards to their side of the bloodline so it stands to reason the Senju have their own inheritance of legacy and techniques. I wonder how the necklace reacted to Hashirama while it was in his possession.
    Tobi didn't tell Sasuke or Konan that he had died but rather everyone believed him to be dead.
    Spoiler!

  2. #92
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    Tobi didn't tell Sasuke or Konan that he had died but rather everyone believed him to be dead.
    Spoiler!
    Great find!

  3. #93
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Back to what Kisame said .. he had to have a good reason to call Tobi Madara .. he was also one of the few who had seen his face and he still could recognize him as Madara. There could only be one person who would get mistaken as Madara and thats his brother Izuna. Or it is in fact Madara, except not the real one but a clone. Maybe Tobi is simply the result of experimentation with combining uchiha and senju DNA ..

    Anyways, I was allways wondering how was Madara even capable of such vast scientific knowledge worthy even for Orochimaru .. to create Zetsu, Hashirama clone and possibly even Tobi from a single DNA .. that seems like a lot to handle for a mere shinobi, even if an elite one like Madara.

    What could have even sprought the whole plot to take over the world ? Is Tobis plan what Madara wanted or is Tobi acting on his own ? Lots of interesting stuff going on and I think its not entirely all black and white with Tobi/Madara.
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  4. #94
    Senior Member Gaara Kazekage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    Back to what Kisame said .. he had to have a good reason to call Tobi Madara .. he was also one of the few who had seen his face and he still could recognize him as Madara. There could only be one person who would get mistaken as Madara and thats his brother Izuna. Or it is in fact Madara, except not the real one but a clone. Maybe Tobi is simply the result of experimentation with combining uchiha and senju DNA ..
    I don't really see why Kisame recognizing Tobi as Madara having any relevance. Tobi most likely did to Kisame what he always have done to everyone else, he claimed himself to be Madara and so Kisame thought that he was Madara.


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  5. #95
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaara Kazekage View Post
    I don't really see why Kisame recognizing Tobi as Madara having any relevance. Tobi most likely did to Kisame what he always have done to everyone else, he claimed himself to be Madara and so Kisame thought that he was Madara.
    which would mean tobi at this point was in action and not madara but the thing is nagato isnt that old. Trying to figure out nagato's approx age.

  6. #96
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Tsunade was the granddaughter of Hashirama. She is roughly 50 years old (also called "old bag" and the like) when she was asked to become the 5th Hokage. The legendary sannin appear to be in their late teens or early 20's during their time fighting Hanzo of the Salamander. It was around this time, the great (second?) ninja war that Jiraiya discovered the orphaned children of which Nagato was member. Each sannin being old enough to be the parent of Nagato puts him at great grandchild age of Hashirama or Madara. Given these clues I would put Nagato at age 36-42 upon the time of his death.

    This was independent figuring as I do not look at data sites dedicated to Naruto. Hope my conclusion is sound enough.

  7. #97
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Tsunade was the granddaughter of Hashirama. She is roughly 50 years old (also called "old bag" and the like) when she was asked to become the 5th Hokage. The legendary sannin appear to be in their late teens or early 20's during their time fighting Hanzo of the Salamander. It was around this time, the great (second?) ninja war that Jiraiya discovered the orphaned children of which Nagato was member. Each sannin being old enough to be the parent of Nagato puts him at great grandchild age of Hashirama or Madara. Given these clues I would put Nagato at age 36-42 upon the time of his death.

    This was independent figuring as I do not look at data sites dedicated to Naruto. Hope my conclusion is sound enough.
    Yea I also figured a simular age based from Minato's time being hokage. I put minato 4-6 years younger than nagato. Just trying to figure the era madara died considering he knows about Nagato.

    Madara calling nagato a brat Im willing to say he knew nagato when he was naruto's age now around 16 years old where jiraiay meet him clearly at genin age level.

    So madara died based from our guesses 20 - 26 years ago, putting his era of death 4 to 10 years before the fox attack by tobi on konoha. Wow that 4 years matches up with my inaital calc. This does seem the right amount of time for tobi to get yaiko and nagato to start absuki. Not to mention manipulate the 4th muzikage but Im still trying to figure who actually did it tobi or madara it could have been either one of them based from the approz time of death.

    Also as we know the 3rd stone kage has used Absuki alot but he apparatly fought madara before which also means the thrid hokage was alive also when Madara was alive. Stone kage was actually shocked to hear tobi saying he was madara. their battle must have been pretty serious.

    But I have big problems is how does Madara know nagato without Nagato himself not mentioning anything about the fact he knows madara in the series before he died by naruto from when he was young. Im guessing he didnt know madara died and just though he was tobi.
    Last edited by psukkar; 10-26-2011 at 06:43 AM.

  8. #98
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Perhaps Madara did die at the hands of Hashirama after all. Could it be he was merely summoned multiple times? Could then his appearances after death have been tied to the moon or its cycle in some way? Or maybe the rinnegan, activated before or during the fight with Hashirama, gave him visions of the future. I like either of these more than if he just simply lived long enough to see Nagato. I mean, we already have prophecy in the narutoverse. It isn't too far fetched that a shinobi of Madara's circumstance and calibur could have forward vision in the vein of prophecy. Nagato was even considered a child of prophecy for some time!

  9. #99
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Perhaps Madara did die at the hands of Hashirama after all. Could it be he was merely summoned multiple times? Could then his appearances after death have been tied to the moon or its cycle in some way? Or maybe the rinnegan, activated before or during the fight with Hashirama, gave him visions of the future. I like either of these more than if he just simply lived long enough to see Nagato. I mean, we already have prophecy in the narutoverse. It isn't too far fetched that a shinobi of Madara's circumstance and calibur could have forward vision in the vein of prophecy. Nagato was even considered a child of prophecy for some time!
    That actually doesnt that bad one would think there would need to something to balance out the great toad sage's visions of the future. He probally knew he was gonna lose regardless so did everything try and get hasihrama dna instead.

  10. #100
    2nd Commander of WB crew DragonSlayer's Avatar
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    Madara did die, but it was a planned death. He wanted to get on hold of Hashirama's powers, activating the Rinnegan, die and then get revived by Nagato.

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