View Poll Results: Naruto Chapter Rating Scale

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  • It's story time!! Of the OMG-OMG-OMG variety!!

    7 50.00%
  • Positively Remarkable!!

    3 21.43%
  • A Fair balance

    3 21.43%
  • Well...I don't quite know about this...

    0 0%
  • So this is the beginning...yea........... -_-

    1 7.14%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member zeroLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inderos View Post
    I'm kind of disappointed Kishimoto went the whole reincarnation route. Wasn't being a descendant enough? Now we are left to wonder how Madara and Sasuke can possess the same soul in two different bodies, at the same time....
    Well madara did die and what he has there isnt exactly his original body

    EPIC!!!

  2. #32
    Senior Member zeroLT's Avatar
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    It makes sense in a way. Naruto have to have various teachers and extensive training to achieve the level he has reached (Killer Bee, Kakashi, Jiraya, The Dude with the sunglasses, and countless fights where he pushed himself to his limits) And Sasuke, everything came naturally to him, he didnt have very many teachers and what teachers he did have he surpassed them quickly.

    So Naruto and Sasuke being reincarnations of the sons of the sages is an interesting plot point. We knew that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the sons. Hashirama and his clans of various other ninja groups formed together and the Uchiha who only relied on themselves and not other groups.

    Looking back, it pretty much covers exactly how each character arrived at that point. More or less. Very interesting stuff, can't wait until next week to read more.

    EPIC!!!

  3. #33
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeroLT View Post
    It makes sense in a way. Naruto have to have various teachers and extensive training to achieve the level he has reached (Killer Bee, Kakashi, Jiraya, The Dude with the sunglasses, and countless fights where he pushed himself to his limits) And Sasuke, everything came naturally to him, he didnt have very many teachers and what teachers he did have he surpassed them quickly.

    So Naruto and Sasuke being reincarnations of the sons of the sages is an interesting plot point. We knew that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the sons. Hashirama and his clans of various other ninja groups formed together and the Uchiha who only relied on themselves and not other groups.

    Looking back, it pretty much covers exactly how each character arrived at that point. More or less. Very interesting stuff, can't wait until next week to read more.
    I agree that this chapter coalesces very much the plot regarding Naruto and Sasuke, however it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. What about Hashirama for instance, did he gain Mokuton through hard Work and the help of others? If so does that gain then become activated in his cells so that Danzo, Orochimaru, and Yamato and others can now use the power of his Mokuton?

    We (i) had surmised before that Hashirama may be the closest Senju to the Younbger Son, and now we learn that the Younger son was a Flunky drop out?

    This revelation also damages the Uchiha too. Their Sharingans develop through intense emotion, not just through their superior chakra alone.

    I am Yet to get a grip on the Transmigration of Chakra thing. Did Ashura's Chakra first transmigrate to Hashirama, and with his passing, it has fallen to Naruto? if so, why does Naruto have less Senju/Uzumaki attributes. Or perhaps Hashirama too had a near death experience before his Mokuton activated, and that experience is the Key to assumption of Ashura's chakra.

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I am Yet to get a grip on the Transmigration of Chakra thing. Did Ashura's Chakra first transmigrate to Hashirama, and with his passing, it has fallen to Naruto? if so, why does Naruto have less Senju/Uzumaki attributes. Or perhaps Hashirama too had a near death experience before his Mokuton activated, and that experience is the Key to assumption of Ashura's chakra.
    The plot twist might be that this current battle is not the battle between the two brothers reincarnations, but between Ashura's reincarnations. If you think about it, Sasuke felled short compared to Itachi, so was Madara compared to Hashirama and Obito compared to Kakashi (Sasuke, Obito and Madara had to sacrifice many things, their minds, hearts, bodies and alike to gain power, indifference to Hashirama and Itachi that seemingly reached those levels of powers more easily, if not naturally).

    The reason why Kakashi can use the MS even though he is not an Uchiha, again might be because he has a portion of Indra's Soul (the reincarnation doesn't necessary limit to one person, since the soul and chakra can be easily split apart). Yeah, like this we could probably explain lots, lots of things in the series... unless of course Kishi states that there might be only one reincarnation-incarnation of each brother, each given era.

    There were many reincarnations, the amounts of the temple gates on the last page show how those went (so at least 16 reincarnations were so far, if not more). Seemingly it suggests one each generation was max, since none of them are standing beside each other, only after or before. What's more, the fact that it doesn't go in a straight line, again suggests that it was not limited to one bloodline (an Uchiha born with Ashura's Soul could be possible). Of course the temple gates are only the visual metaphor of it, so we can only guess what the author exactly had in mind when showing this to us.

    Interesting enough, the reason why humanity was never able to learn, might be because the souls of Indra and Ashura might have really been like a curse, forcing the host to continue the cycle of battle and hate. Seeing as their reincarnations are strongly tied to their chakra, it's possible that what Madara tried to stop by collecting all the chakra, might actually be their reincarnations. Then there is the Death God, whose true purpose might in fact be to definitely cut off the Souls of Indra and Ashura from the cycle of life, death and rebirth, thus to put an end to their endless battle.

    Also, seeing as So6p's Soul and Chakra freely travels through space, time and dimensional layers, would mean that not even once was he reincarnated (unless we count before it happening).



  5. #35
    The French Tickler pratesh's Avatar
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    So Old Sage's Bro = Madara
    Young son = Naruto
    Old Son = Sasuke

    Hmm. I guess even though we've been given info on the bros finally, it gets side-shadowed by the Sage's bro and his eerie resemblance to sage Madara.

    If the SO6P bro is Hyuga then I'm gonna be pissed that they killed the best Hyuga before he showed anything of a Sage caliber.

    I think the Sage spoke of lineage not being a factor in determining a persons skill to avoid the comparison of Naruto to Goku(Both being from exceptionally strong races which helped largely to "power them up").

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    The plot twist might be that this current battle is not the battle between the two brothers reincarnations, but between Ashura's reincarnations. If you think about it, Sasuke felled short compared to Itachi, so was Madara compared to Hashirama and Obito compared to Kakashi (Sasuke, Obito and Madara had to sacrifice many things, their minds, hearts, bodies and alike to gain power, indifference to Hashirama and Itachi that seemingly reached those levels of powers more easily, if not naturally).
    I agree, it is very interesting that Hashirama seems far more like a natural genius than Madara does. Even when they were kids Madara seemed to work very hard while Hashirama seemed very easy going. Both trained I am sure but Madara always seemed to push himself to new limits and gave up everything for power. Hashirama himself was far more of a natural genius, he seemed to always be one step ahead without having to make the same sacrifices. In the end Madara only managed to surpass Hashirama by stealing power from him. Even with the Eternal Mangekyou and all of his hard work, he still needed to use the Kyuubi to fight Hashirama equally and even with that he still lost.

    Sasuke and Madara weren't born perfect they had to train extremely hard, fight many near death battles and ultimately take power from other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeroLT View Post
    It makes sense in a way. Naruto have to have various teachers and extensive training to achieve the level he has reached (Killer Bee, Kakashi, Jiraya, The Dude with the sunglasses, and countless fights where he pushed himself to his limits) And Sasuke, everything came naturally to him, he didnt have very many teachers and what teachers he did have he surpassed them quickly.

    So Naruto and Sasuke being reincarnations of the sons of the sages is an interesting plot point. We knew that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the sons. Hashirama and his clans of various other ninja groups formed together and the Uchiha who only relied on themselves and not other groups.

    Looking back, it pretty much covers exactly how each character arrived at that point. More or less. Very interesting stuff, can't wait until next week to read more.
    Well Sasuke also had to train a lot and had the competition of many hard battles and the help of many important people that made him strong. Actually, I would even go as far as to say it was almost just as hard for Sasuke to become strong as it was for Naruto. Remember when Sasuke was a child he became strong largely because he was desperate to keep up with Itachi, he trained every day until late after everyone else had left the academy, that is why he came home at night after the massacre. Then the massacre itself pushed Sasuke to new limits causing his sharingan to activate for the first time.

    Later during the Haku and Zabuza arc, Sasuke had to put his life on the line just like Naruto did to awaken his 2 tomoe sharingan. During the Chuunin exam, Sasuke had several life threatening fights that forced him to improve. His battle against Lee helped him to learn advanced Taijutsu but even after that he needed to train hard with Kakashi for months to master those skills. Then even after all that training Sasuke lost to Gaara and needed to be saved by Naruto, who was able to win because of the 9-tails chakra.

    Sasuke continued to train hard after that seeing Naruto's power and fearing that he had fallen behind. Then he fought against Itachi and got his ass kicked and realized that even after all that he had been through he was still no closer to being able to beat him. To test himself, he challenged Naruto to a fight but that ended with him feeling even more threatened after seeing the destructive power of Naruto's Rasengan. After again getting his ass kicked by Orochimaru's sound nin, Sasuke realized that he couldn't win. He knew that he needed the help of a powerful teacher like Orochimaru. When he and Naruto fought again, Sasuke was only able to win with the help of Orochimaru's cursed seal and had to put his life on the line to win.

    During the time skip, I would debate that Sasuke worked harder than Naruto did. As we saw in the few parts that were shown with him Naruto put him up against crowds of ninja to force him to become strong and possible even used drugs to enhance his abilities and give him immunity to poisons. Sasuke accepted a lot of help to become strong and even absorbed part of Orochimaru to become stronger. After that he gathered a team of skilled ninja to form his team Hawk.

    After that Sasuke fought against more powerful opponents than ever before. He went one on one against Deidara and had to use almost every trick he had to win. Then he had to fight Itachi, who was basically using the battle as a way of teaching Sasuke and pushing him to his absolute limits. Then Sasuke met Obito who messed him up even further. Then he had to fight Killer bee, who almost killed him, the Kages, who almost killed him, and Danzou, who almost killed him. So he definitely hasn't had it easy.

    Sasuke has definitely not just developed his powers naturally, so in that way I really don't see how he is like the Elder Son at all. Sasuke has had to struggle every step of the way, he has almost died at least half a dozen times. Sasuke also didn't get his powers alone, not by a long shot. Without Itachi, Kakashi, Orochimaru and Obito, Sasuke would be nowhere near as powerful as he is now.

    In terms of natural talent, I would say that Itachi is far closer to the Indra than Sasuke is. Itachi graduated the Academy top of his class at age 7 (4 years earlier than Sasuke and his teachers said he needed little instruction), Hiruzen also said that at the age of 7 his reasoning was like a Hokage, He mastered the Sharigan at age 8, he was made an Anbu captain at 13, and he killed the entire clan at the age of 13. Itachi hasn't had any notable instructors (surpassed his father at a very early age) and so far he has never been shown to lose a fight. He has won almost every fight he has been in with apparent ease. I think that sounds far more like Indra. Itachi also said that at an early age he believed in doing everything alone, he didn't put his faith in others and he even said that was one of his biggest failures. I think the hard experiences of his life made Itachi learn the value of cooperating with his others. That was a lesson that Indra never learned. Indra put all his faith in himself and his own abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I agree that this chapter coalesces very much the plot regarding Naruto and Sasuke, however it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. What about Hashirama for instance, did he gain Mokuton through hard Work and the help of others? If so does that gain then become activated in his cells so that Danzo, Orochimaru, and Yamato and others can now use the power of his Mokuton?

    We (i) had surmised before that Hashirama may be the closest Senju to the Younbger Son, and now we learn that the Younger son was a Flunky drop out?

    This revelation also damages the Uchiha too. Their Sharingans develop through intense emotion, not just through their superior chakra alone.

    I am Yet to get a grip on the Transmigration of Chakra thing. Did Ashura's Chakra first transmigrate to Hashirama, and with his passing, it has fallen to Naruto? if so, why does Naruto have less Senju/Uzumaki attributes. Or perhaps Hashirama too had a near death experience before his Mokuton activated, and that experience is the Key to assumption of Ashura's chakra.
    I am very curious about Hashirama's power, the Mokuton is one of the most mysterious powers in the story. The sharingan has been explained in great depth but the Mokuton which is perhaps even more powerful and just as significant to the plot really hasn't been explained much at all. We have never seen any of the other Senju use it and now even the Younger Son doesn't seem to have it. It is a power that obviously seems to be connected to the God Tree but other than that it is a total mystery as to how Hashirama got it. All the other characters who use the Mokuton got it either directly or indirectly from Hashirama.

  7. #37
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I also wonder if a version of the SO6P is now appearing top Sasuke also. It is true that He favoured Ashura with good reason, however, Sasuke represents an opportunity for the Sage to ideologically unite his bloodlines, moreover, Sasuke is being fed with Hashirama's cells from Kabuto, and with Hashirama's chakra.

    If the sage could add his voice, Sasuke might remember him later on when he and Naruto duke it out.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    It seems that Ashura was born with the potential to achieve the enormous physical energy we attribute to him, but it had to "bloom" over time through hard work and bonds. For now, I'm going to believe that the Bijuu Mode-esque cloak Ashura uses on the last page is actually all his own, and Naruto has inherited part of that power through Ashura's Reincarnation. He probably unlocked it at the same time he first tamed Kurama.
    I considered this as well that maybe he had special power unique only to himself like Hashirama.

    However one could assume that in pursuit to counter his brothers power he became a Jinchuuriki. This also fits in with his theme of having to rely on cooperation and the ability to make friends like Naruto.


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  9. #39
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    It seems that Ashura was born with the potential to achieve the enormous physical energy we attribute to him, but it had to "bloom" over time through hard work and bonds. For now, I'm going to believe that the Bijuu Mode-esque cloak Ashura uses on the last page is actually all his own, and Naruto has inherited part of that power through Ashura's Reincarnation. He probably unlocked it at the same time he first tamed Kurama.
    If you think about it, there is no reason for the Bijuu, even Kurama, to manifest the concentric spirals and the Tomoes on the SO6P and on Naruto/Ashura in Bijuu Mode.

    The Tomoes and the Rinnegan are identifying artifacts of the sage, not the Bijuus. I don't recall any bijuu with them. Now this would have gone better had Hashirama also had tomoes.

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  10. #40
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    What if Ashura's beast mode is from the 9 tails his uncle made?

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