View Poll Results: Naruto Chapter Rating Scale

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  • Let Us Feel Our Youth!

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  • An admirable chapter

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  1. #21
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I'll really be watching to see how Kishi spins this fight. Madara has so many options, including Susanoo. The only true danger to Madara is plot-no-jutsu

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  2. #22
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Well what gets me is that Madara knows about it.... maybe Madara invented it or its one of the hokages move?

  3. #23
    The Wise One shadowfox87's Avatar
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    I think it will turn out similar to Gogeta vs Li Shenron. Gai will beat the crap out of Madara, but he will run out of time and then die. I think, however, this will be the coolest fucking fight in all of Naruto. I still keep the episode of Lee vs Gaara on my computer. I would like to see Lee get drunk and then open 7 gates. I don't really care how the story ends at this point, whether it's hacked 10-tails Naruto or hacked Sasuke with gaybeam that repels Madara (or could attract who knows?). But I am looking forward to Gai going all out and see some real fighting.
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  4. #24
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    Yet another flashback chapter. I have to agree with whoever said, I don't see how the Manga is supposed to end this year at this pace. It has taken three chapters just to set this minor fight up.

    It was somewhat interesting to see that Gai's father fought all the 7-swordsman with his 8-Gates but it would have been more interesting if he actually killed them all with it, as it stands we never really got a good idea of how much of a boost he got because we never got to see him use it. I guess the fact that an otherwise genin level ninja was able to take on 7 elite ninja does say something though. The rest of the flashback seemed like a bit of a waste since it is basically a repeat of every single one of Lee's flashbacks. If Gai had mentioned that he learned the technique from his father, who was just a genin, we could have basically assumed the rest. It felt like the flashback really just stalled the action, as have many of the flashbacks of late.

    I really hope the 8-gates has some interesting effects but I really don't see how it will be able to hurt Madara (at least not seriously). Even before getting the Juubi's power Madara was already nearly invulnerable to physical attacks. Now that he has the Juubi his physical power should be almost unlimited. The most I can possible see Gai being able to accomplish is amuse Madara for a couple of minutes before he decides to get serious. Gai needed to use 7-gates just to beat Kisame, compared to Madara, Kisame is nothing. Even if the 8-gates makes Gai 1000 times stronger and faster I still don't think it would be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    There are two Large differences, or maybe 3 differences between Sasuke and Madara.

    1) Sasuke has Hashirama's Chakra, freely given, (to jump start his cells), Madara didn't.

    2) Tobirama is Guiding Kabuto's intervention.

    3) Kabuto Ha more expertise about Hashirama's cells than Madara who simply inoculated himself.
    Agreed, on top of that Kabuto and Orochimaru have both devoted their lives to combining bloodlines and enhancing them. They have a lifetime of experience and practice that Madara didn't have. When Madara gave himself Hashirama's cells, it was the first time he had ever used them. It was Orochimaru who gave Yamato Hashirama's cells and helped Danzou create his Uchiha/Senju arm. Kabuto and Orochimaru know more about combining bloodlines than anyone else, they have likely figured out techniques that Madara wasn't aware of. They also both have Senju cells in their body and Kabuto has both Senju cells and Uzumaki cells. As far as I can recall Madara didn't have Uzumaki cells at all. I have suspect for a long time that Madara's bloodline is incomplete. I think on some level Orochimaru suspected that all along and that is why he believed so strongly that Sasuke could one day surpass Madara.

    Another interesting thing to note is that Madara was near death when he awakened his Rinnegan. Maybe being near death is an important part of awakening it. As we know, each Sharingan upgrade requires a sort of sacrifice to push it to the next level. The extreme danger was what caused Sasuke to awaken his eyes to begin with, then the death of someone important to them, the loss of a sibling (or at least their eyes), possibly being faced with death is a part of the sharingan's evolution. After transplanting Hashirama's cells, Madara probably wasn't faced with death until he was very old.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    You couldadd that Kabuto's Umbilical Snake might be doing more to Sasuke than just injecting him, it could also be restructuring him on the inside.
    Definitely, I think it could also be giving him the cells from his bloodlines. Kabuto is probably giving Sasuke cells that will allow his body to regenerate on his own which I suspect will be a part of his next upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It's noteworthy that Both Naruto and Sasuke are recieving some very high level intervention to power their upgrades. This certainly not an Acheivement by hard work situation.
    I think the hard work was the battles that they have fought during the war. It's true that both have gotten some very major power hand outs but its also true that both have fought very hard during the war and against the Juubi and Obito. Both have had to push their powers and skills to new limits and both have had to learn life lessons as well. They also both fought along ninja who are superior to them in skill and intelligence and that likely taught them valuable lessons.

    I actually really commend Kishimoto for making their development gradual and making them both go through many experiences that have shaped them. Also, I like that they didn't get all of their powers alone, it is more believeable that their developments are partly the work of many other great people. Naruto and Sasuke have had to go through a lot to get to where they are but they would be relatively average if they hadn't been given a lot from other very great ninja.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The way it's shaping up is that Sasuke provides the Eyes of the Sage, and Naruto provides the body of the sage plus the Minijubi. I'd like to see some Uzumaki traits played up by Naruto too.
    I think its even more than that though. At the moment both could potentially complete the Sage's bloodline. If Naruto receives Hashirama's Senju cells and Obito's own Uchiha cells, he will have Uzumaki, Uchiha and Senju blood. If Sasuke is given Uzumaki and Senju cells from Kabuto he will also have all three bloodlines within him. That will give both Naruto and Sasuke the full bloodline of the Sage which is something that the Son's of the the Sage didn't have. If they continue down this path their is a possibility that both Naruto and Sasuke could complete the Sage's bloodline.

    Here is my prediction for how it will go down:

    I think that after they recover both Naruto and Sasuke will be a lot stronger but they still won't have awakened the true powers of the Sage. They will unite to fight Madara but at first they will still be way outclassed since Madara himself has most of the same abilities they have plus far more power and experience. As the battle escalates though, their powers will continue to evolve (just as we saw during the fight with Obito). Madara will start to see that Naruto and Sasuke are both evolving the Sage's bloodline in a way that he hasn't. Remember, Madara asked after he absorbed the Juubi, "Is this the true power of the Sage?" I think Madara still has his suspicions that something is missing, I think that right now he thinks it because he is missing half of the Kyuubi and his other Rinnegan but I think that as the battle progresses he will see that there is more to it than that.

    I think Sasuke will eventually awaken the true Rinnegan, after Naruto gets seriously injured (a bit like how he awakened the Sharigan when Naruto was seriously injured against Haku). He will attack Madara with some new power it grants him. After seeing that Sasuke's eyes have surpassed his own Madara will be motivated to go all out against Sasuke in an attempt to take his eyes from him. He will manage to take Sasuke down but just as he is about to take Sasuke's eyes Naruto will awaken the full powers of the Sage's body and counter attack Madara. He will fight with Madara for a bit but Madara's Juubi power will still be too much for him and Madara will pin him down and attempt to take the other half of the Kyuubi from him but he will be saved (probably by some of the other characters such as the Kages, Killerbee who will have been kept alive by Samahada, and Yamato who will have somehow regained control of his powers.) They will distract Madara long enough for Naruto and Sasuke to recover and they will decide to fuse their powers together again.

    This time Naruto's Kyuubi will be greatly enhanced by power from Ichibi and Hachibi (that Obito took from Madara) and it will be powered by the full body of the Sage. With that power, Naruto's Kyuubi will be more like a partial Juubi. Sasuke's Susanoo will have achieved a perfect form beyond any we have seen. Their new fused form will be a flying armored beast. To counter them, Madara will use a Susanoo armored Juubi. I suspect that Madara's beast will be much larger and more powerful but Naruto and Sasuke's will be faster and more maneuverable. The fight will be close but Sasuke and Naruto will eventually create a super attack that will break the Juubi apart. At which point Naruto will manage to reclaim the other half of the Kyuubi but Madara will still manage to survive and recover (perhaps by using some of his unseen Mangekyou powers). They will finish the battle in human form and there will be a long philosophical debate as they fight. During the battle it will become clear that Madara is growing weaker as the Bijuu reject him while Naruto and Sasuke will continue to learn to use their new powers better. They will eventually separate the Bijuu from Madara causing him to have a massive decrease in power. Naruto will continue to try to get Madara to change his ways but Madara will refuse. Sasuke will be angered by Madara and will kill him.

    With Madara dead Naruto and Sasuke will be left to debate the fate of the Juubi. Naruto will tell Sasuke that he wants to restore the God Tree by giving the Bijuu back. Sasuke will still want to become the supreme Kage and create his version of an ideal world. This will lead to Naruto and Sasuke fighting. Naruto will have the full power of the Kyuubi and a very powerful body but Sasuke will have the perfect Rinnegan.
    Last edited by artifice; 03-14-2014 at 01:30 AM.

  5. #25
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    Artifice, that would be a stellar ending to Naruto. I hope Kishi is reading that post.

  6. #26
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I am afraid that Giving the Bijuu Back, Is NOT an Option. The Bijuu are Living Creatures, and they should determine their own fates. Besides, the idea contradicts the SO6P's prophesy or last Words to the Bijuu. Naruto will lead them to a more perfect state of being, with perhaps new identities, but still individuals, not into the oblivion of oneness with a tree.

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  7. #27
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    Another interesting thing to note is that Madara was near death when he awakened his Rinnegan. Maybe being near death is an important part of awakening it. As we know, each Sharingan upgrade requires a sort of sacrifice to push it to the next level. The extreme danger was what caused Sasuke to awaken his eyes to begin with, then the death of someone important to them, the loss of a sibling (or at least their eyes), possibly being faced with death is a part of the sharingan's evolution. After transplanting Hashirama's cells, Madara probably wasn't faced with death until he was very old.
    I would rather use the world "conditions" instead of "sacrifice".

    From the looks of it, an Uchiha awakens his first one-comma Sharingan in an outburst of a child rage, somewhere before reaching 8 years old. Being too young to understand and control it, they often forget about the event or are not even aware of it (it's similar to how Goten achieved SSJ).

    The two-comma Sharingan is awakened when a need for power arises, usually the need to protect invokes the need for power. At this point the eyes becomes freely usable to the user, but not all of it's abilities are yet awakened.

    The three-comma Sharingan awakens when... hard to say ;p. It is also the state of maturity, when the user gains access to all of it's abilities (like the use of Genjutsu from the Sharingan), so perhaps it becomes usable with time and practice. It's possible though, that it also requires some sort of impulse.

    The MS awakens when a really strong impulse of despair hits an Uchiha, forcing the eye to over-evolve. From that point, the eye is under constant degradation, even if not used. It gives the user additional jutsu.

    The EMS comes from transplantation of another MS from a closely related person, of course after awakening own MS. So far, it wasn't explained why the degradation doesn't occur in a new pair, only that it doesn't. It also boosts the eyes powers that the user had before.

    Rinnegan, since it posses power over the circle of life among many others, it wouldn't be a surprise if the user has to experience death in order to awaken it. It also requires the power of the Younger Son and the EMS.

    1-comma Sharingan (it should be noted that this state isn't recognized as true awakening, since the user usually doesn't have control over it, thus it's not battle-ready):
    - Madara - aware of it, mentions it as the reason why his eyesight is better than Hashirama's,
    - Itachi - most likely also aware, probably after witnessing the results of war when he was 4,
    - Sasuke - unaware, pushed the memory away, as a result of contradicting trauma (he was 7),
    - Obito - unaware;
    2-comma Sharingan (recognized as true awakening):
    - Madara - when he finally resolved himself to protect his clan and family in battle (Madara's and Hashirama's last meeting as childhood friends),
    - Itachi - most likely when he resolved himself to protect Sasuke at the time of Kyubi Attack (he was around 5-6 years old then),
    - Sasuke - when he resolved himself to protect Naruto (when fighting Haku at the Naruto Bridge),
    - Obito - when he resolved himself to protect Kakashi (in Kakeshi Gaiden);
    3-comma Sharingan (recognized as the state of mastery):
    - Madara - at some point in one of his battles against Hashirama,
    - Itachi - at the age of 8 (within his first year of being a genin),
    - Sasuke - in his battle against Naruto at Vote,
    - Obito - after witnessing Kakashi killing Rin;
    MS Sharingan:
    - Madara - at some point after encountering despair (perhaps the death of his own father ? Since Izuna also awakened it at the same time IIRC),
    - Itachi - most likely after witnessing Shisui's suicide,
    - Sasuke - after realizing his love for the brother he killed/died in their battle,
    - Obito - after witnessing Kakashi killing Rin.


    BTW, here is where Tobi speaks of Itachi killing his girlfriend in the Uchiha Massacre:
    Spoiler!

    the mystery that will never be resolved, probably .



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I am afraid that Giving the Bijuu Back, Is NOT an Option. The Bijuu are Living Creatures, and they should determine their own fates. Besides, the idea contradicts the SO6P's prophesy or last Words to the Bijuu. Naruto will lead them to a more perfect state of being, with perhaps new identities, but still individuals, not into the oblivion of oneness with a tree.
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/572/10

    The Sage indicated that someday the Bijuu will be one Will again. I don't see why it wouldn't be an option for them to return to the God Tree since that is in fact their original form. I find it interesting that a lot of analogies in Naruto are connected to a tree the Leaf Village and the ninja of Konoha are sometimes compared to leaves. The purpose of leaves is to gather energy and nutrients for a tree. It would makes sense, I think, if the ninja of the leaf eventually helped to reform the God Tree and took on the duty of protecting and nourishing it.

    The big problems in the Naruto world seemed to be rooted to the God Tree having its fruit stolen. I think that the God Tree is somehow essential to the world and it is meant to exist and perform its task without interference (otherwise why did it become a Giants monster of mass destruction when its fruit was taken). The purpose of fruit in Naruto is to protect and spread seeds that will become a new tree. With the God Tree I think the same is likely true, the Fruit was likely going to eventually provide the seed for a new God Tree, or perhaps new life of a different sort (since the Juubi has been called the Progenitor of life). I believe it serves a purpose that has yet to be explained and I think the series will end either with a new tree being planted or the Bijuu turning back into the God Tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I would rather use the world "conditions" instead of "sacrifice".
    Yes, that's probably a more appropriate term. I was thinking sacrifice because each condition seems to be related to some form of loss or feeling of loss. The point is, each stage of the sharingan seems to require more than just genetics, each seems to require some sort of emotional or psychological condition to push the host to the next level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post

    Rinnegan, since it posses power over the circle of life among many others, it wouldn't be a surprise if the user has to experience death in order to awaken it. It also requires the power of the Younger Son and the EMS.
    That is my guess as well. Facing ones own death seems like the next logical condition. As you have explained the conditions seem to escalate. Each form of the sharingan seems to grant the user something that they need to face a challenge. In the case of Madara, the Rinnegan gave him an ability that allowed him to overcome death.

    I think it is also interesting to note that every Mangekyou we have seen is different and Hashirama's cells clearly have an effect on the sharingan which leads me to believe that genetics and experience are also an issue. Itachi and Sasuke both suffered from eyesight loss and suffered physically when they used the Mangekyou too much. In the case of Obito though, he showed no signs of eyesight loss and he didn't seem to suffer from any physical drawbacks when using it. Another interesting case of bloodlines having a role, is Nagato. Nagato seemed to be able to use the Rinnegan quite well but he didn't get any of the Mangekyou powers. Even though the Rinnegan is essentially a highly advanced Sharingan Nagato didn't have any of the Mangekyou or Sharingan powers. So while he was very compatible in one sense, he clearly lacked something that was necessary to use the full power of the Rinnegan. I believe the same might be true for Madara but in a different way. Madara is able clearly able to use the Rinnegan in ways that Nagato could not, but he also hasn't shown many of the Rinnegan's abilities, maybe he can use them but either way I think it is clear that Bloodlines are significant. Just like how Obito had the right biology to complete the Rinnegan (and that biology certainly enhanced his eyes) but he couldn't awaken the Rinnegan because he had missed out on a piece of the puzzle. I think that Madara has also missed out on a piece of the puzzle. He just has one more piece than anyone else sofar. Only someone with all the pieces and who completes all the conditions can awaken the Rinnegan's true power. If that isn't the case then why were Orochimaru and Kabuto so eager to get Sasuke? They have studied all the bloodlines, they know that something is missing.

    Both biology and life experience are an important part of gaining the full power of the Rinnegan. We have now seen many characters with various parts of each and all of them seem to have certain weaknesses because their is something that they lack. I found it interesting that Kabuto referred to himself as the one who was closest to the Sage even though he didn't have the sharingan or the Rinnegan. I think he considered himself the closest because he had the most bloodlines and he was also a Sage. He was only really missing the Sage's eyes and he thought that he could get those by capturing Sasuke. Although I think he was overlooking the importance of the conditions that a person must go through to obtain that power. Kabuto had all the physical parts but he was lacking the proper experience to use that physical power wisely, and that's largely why he lost to Itachi.

    I would be really interested to see how Hashirama got his power. I find it odd that we have seen a very complex process for how the Uchiha powers evolve but we really haven't seen any details about the Senju bloodline or why Hashirama is the only one who seems to have the Mokuton and clearly has the most overpowered natural ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonZypher View Post
    Artifice, that would be a stellar ending to Naruto. I hope Kishi is reading that post.
    Thanks. I admit, of course, that there are holes in my predictions but I always find it interesting to see how close my guesses are. Sometimes I have been totally wrong and other times I have been very close. I find there is a certain level of creativity even in predicting what will happen. I often think about what I would like to see happen in the future and also consider what the writer's style is. I think after long enough you start to get an idea of how writers thinks by trying to predict them. I don't think Kishimoto needs to read predictions, I think that by reading his work a lot of predictions start to line up with what he already has planned. Of course a big part of the fun is that Kishimoto has a lot of information that the viewers don't. We can only draw conclusions from the available information, so naturally its very difficult to be dead on.
    Last edited by artifice; 03-15-2014 at 12:44 AM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @artifice.

    Lets look at the Mangastream version :
    Spoiler!



    PLEASE LOOK AT THE TWO PAGES ABOVE

    Transcribing, it says:

    (1) You will always be together even if you are separated, (2) and one day you will all become one, with different names---in different forms than you exist now, (3) And unlike when you were within me you will be led down the right path, (4) When the time comes for you to know what true power is.

    Analysis:

    1) You will always be together even if you are separated... probably Reference to Bijuu telepathy

    2) And one day you will all become one, with different names---in different forms than you exist now... probably More United, but individuals, having been given different names and different forms (plural)
    3) And unlike when you were within me you will be led down the right path...probably to be led by Naruto

    4) When the time comes for you to know what true power is... probably Naruto will elucidate true power (probably something like firiendship, and unity) to the beasts.

    Conclusion:

    SO6P wasn't predicting the annihilation of their personalities. He was saying They will change, They will have new names, and they will be led by someone new, who will show them the meaning of true power.


    ALSO:

    The current problems in The Naruto Universe predate the existence of Chakra. This is precisely Madara's point.

    Madara is saying that Mankind's receiving chakra did not change anything or stop wars. Mankind simply corrupted the purpose of chakra and used it to further pursue their warlike ways.

    War and problems had always existed even before the tree's fruit was stolen or its chakra distributed.
    Last edited by paulbee; 03-16-2014 at 05:24 PM.

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  10. #30
    The French Tickler pratesh's Avatar
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    Kinda expected the 8th gate would have a dragon named move. Pity. Lets see if its got more to offer.

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