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  1. #1
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Bleach El theophory - the names and their meaning

    It was awhile since there was any other thread created in this section beside pertaining to a new chapter, so here it is .

    Now, what's it about ? First of here is little wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophory_in_the_Bible on which there is a list of the El-themed names and their meaning. Yep, those are likely the inspiration for the names of the Quincy's Complete Holy Form (CHF) and/or their powers. Here is a list in a spoiler (it might be incomplete and some translations might be off from the looks of it ):
    Spoiler!


    From the known Complete Holy Forms we have:
    - As Nodt - Tartar Foras - Fear of God - though he could simply use Iruel which is (supposedly) the same but shorter ,
    - Opie - Biskiel - Justice of God - there are those that pertain to the punishment (Daniel) for example or to righteousness (Zadkiel),
    - Gun-Quincy - Grimaniel - Walk of God.

    Now up to guessing/predicting:
    - Bazz-B - Uriel - Fire of God - pretty easy to guess ;p,
    - NaNaNa -Arael - Vision of God, or Adiel Witness of God - his equipment as well as what he was saying about observing,
    - Shaz - Cassiel Speed of God,
    - Berenice - Salatheel I have asked God, or Eliana My God Answers - she was asking questions as part of her power,
    - Candice - Barakiel Lightning of God, or Ramiel Thunder of God - because of her seemingly lightning/thunder motive,
    - Bambietta - Ananiel Rain of God - well she was raining bombs ,
    - Jerome - Gaghiel Roaring Beast of God - he was turning into a beast and roaring,
    - Cang Du - Castiel Shield of God - he supposedly had supreme defense ,
    - Mask - Azael Whom God Strengthens, or Ezekiel God will Strengthen - well he was power upping half of the time ,
    - Royd and Loyd - Mishael Who is what God is? (a question) - their power revolved around impersonating others,
    - Eye Quincy - Tzaphkiel Beholder of God - they called him Bach's eye or something,
    - Haschwalth (this one is hard) - Peniel Face of God - something about him donning the mask of ruler when Bach sleeps,
    - Uryu (this one as well) - Yisrael - Struggles with God or Prince of God - because of the prince of light motive as well as Uryu's struggle against Bach,
    - Askin - Bethel House of God - because of his "territory" and door/dimension power.

    As one can notice, many of the Quincy's power can be clearly described by those names, like the Roaring Beast, or the Question and probably more (like Thunder and Heat, Iron etc.), though their Holy Forms might have different names ;p.

    Also there is also the, Suriel Moon of God, perhaps reserved for Ichigo .

    Of course, everyone is free to discuss or post their own ideas/predictions regarding the names of their forms or what names are associated with their powers and comments , or not . Well it seemed interesting enough anyway so I posted it.



  2. #2
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Interesting, and a good catch. I'm wondering if the events in the bible in Bleach were inspired by the Quinces themselves?

  3. #3
    The Heropon! Sirxxx's Avatar
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    And considering a few chapters back how Ywach was explained to have taken his name from people referring to him as God, I'd say it isn't too far-fetched to say that Kubo is drawing some inspirations from this. Interesting post; probably needs a more active/interested forum to get good discussion though :-/

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    Nice one.

    I'd say that Haschwalt rather would be Sealthiel (Intercessor) or Zadkiel (Righteousness) since he seems to be about balancing of powers, or possible Zeruel since he's BB's right hand man.
    Loyd and Royd could also be both Michael and Mishael.
    Maybe one could also interpret BB as Samiel (Blind God).

    But Zero, why do you think that the the Gun Quincy should be Grimaniel? I don't get the parellell.

    And here's one for you all: Ichigo = Suriel
    Oh, and Ryuuken is Bardiel.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anticrobotic View Post
    Nice one.

    I'd say that Haschwalt rather would be Sealthiel (Intercessor) or Zadkiel (Righteousness) since he seems to be about balancing of powers, or possible Zeruel since he's BB's right hand man.
    Loyd and Royd could also be both Michael and Mishael.
    Maybe one could also interpret BB as Samiel (Blind God).

    But Zero, why do you think that the the Gun Quincy should be Grimaniel? I don't get the parellell.

    And here's one for you all: Ichigo = Suriel
    Oh, and Ryuuken is Bardiel.
    I did not say that I think that it is Grimaniel (strangely enough usually the Gun-wielding one is called Raphael for some reason ), I said that he is, because that's what he called it himself :p (it is among the 3 whose names we know):
    Spoiler!

    Right here he activated it for a split-second and side/god-stepped Kyouraku, which allowed him to take his eye. The fact that his Holy Form was shown, named before Kubo revealed the Quincy's name, as well as not showing his opinion about the next emperor (he seemed even more shocked than the rest), him using long-range weaponry and missing from this battle might point to his surname being... Ishida... well at least he is connected to them or knows about them, just like all the older SR knew (Opie knew, Hashwalth knew, the Eye Quincy too, so he probably knows too).

    One of the Quincy called Haschwalth a poison in the back of the new emperor, so I guess that Sammael also might fit. Of course we can also go with what each angel does instead of simply what their names mean, like Michael being God's Right Hand and alike. In that case I'm keeping Gabriel for the one that fights against/defeats Mayuri's Aberration, as he is also known as Aberration Slayer among many nicknames.



  6. #6
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I did not say that I think that it is Grimaniel (strangely enough usually the Gun-wielding one is called Raphael for some reason ), I said that he is, because that's what he called it himself :p (it is among the 3 whose names we know)

    [---]

    One of the Quincy called Haschwalth a poison in the back of the new emperor, so I guess that Sammael also might fit. Of course we can also go with what each angel does instead of simply what their names mean, like Michael being God's Right Hand and alike. In that case I'm keeping Gabriel for the one that fights against/defeats Mayuri's Aberration, as he is also known as Aberration Slayer among many nicknames.
    Right. Had forgotten about that.

    Another way to interpret is what the angels "are". E. g. Gabriel is made of fire, which would make Bazz-B Gabriel. Then, if we postulate that Haschwaldt is Michael (which sound more reasonable the more I think about it, he's BB's right hand man, the prime of the Quincies and on the night he takes on the mask of the Emperor, being "God like") then maybe his power is snow/ice?

    Or perhaps we're just overanalysing things...but that's part of the fun, right? ^^

  7. #7
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anticrobotic View Post
    Right. Had forgotten about that.

    Another way to interpret is what the angels "are". E. g. Gabriel is made of fire, which would make Bazz-B Gabriel. Then, if we postulate that Haschwaldt is Michael (which sound more reasonable the more I think about it, he's BB's right hand man, the prime of the Quincies and on the night he takes on the mask of the Emperor, being "God like") then maybe his power is snow/ice?

    Or perhaps we're just overanalysing things...but that's part of the fun, right? ^^
    I'm not sure what do you mean by "are", but if you are referring what they represent after being influenced by other religions and believes (thus straying from their initial image), then IIRC it goes like this:
    (- Name - Affinity - Position - Title associated with their Duty)
    - Michael - Light - God's (2nd) Right Hand - God Cleanser
    - Uriel - Fire - God's Front - Sin Cleanser,
    - Gabriel - Water - God's Left Hand - Earth Cleanser,
    - Raphael - Earth - God's Back - Soul Healer.
    There are even some chapels representing that. They also came to represent the cardinal points and seasons and colors (they were seriously strongly influenced by culture and believes ). They are also said to be the 4 most important Angels (or 4 of the 7 most important ones ). While the other 3 of the 7 vary, those 4 are usually named among them. The 7 then also represents each day of a week and planets (for example Kubo might use it to make each of the 7 most important Quincy die each day, in the last 7 days - currently we are at the 8th day IIRC).

    The most popular one is seemingly Gabriel (then Michael, Raphael, Uriel) and of course that one was influenced the most, seriously, to the point that it's a bit, you know, disturbing, especially when seemingly the "Aberration Slayer" appears before a pregnant women... which would suggest that he/she/it came to annihilate something that shouldn't exist in that women's womb... yeah, well that's how it is I guess :p (not to mention that it's always vague to who what did anyway ). Initially they didn't have any specific elements or anything beside their position and duty (then again even the duty is vague since only Michael's is strictly stated, which is again another way to describe he/she/it IIRC ).

    It's also probably worth mentioning that according to some people, the "Prince of Light" is a tittle that belongs only to Uriel, even though there many angels that would fit that title (like Michael or lucifer and others).



  8. #8
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    (- Name - Affinity - Position - Title associated with their Duty)
    - Michael - Light - God's (2nd) Right Hand - God Cleanser
    - Uriel - Fire - God's Front - Sin Cleanser,
    - Gabriel - Water - God's Left Hand - Earth Cleanser,
    - Raphael - Earth - God's Back - Soul Healer.
    Just to clarify: Looking at the Jewish tradition Michael is (as in, is made of) snow and Gabriel is fire. Michael is represented by silver and Gabriel by gold. I don't know if it's different in Christian litterature.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anticrobotic View Post
    Just to clarify: Looking at the Jewish tradition Michael is (as in, is made of) snow and Gabriel is fire. Michael is represented by silver and Gabriel by gold. I don't know if it's different in Christian litterature.
    Well, I have seen Michael being pictured with a water element, but that was in accordance with his cleansing powers, I think ;p ? Still, made of snow... that's a bit strange :p, I mean doesn't this make him into a Snowman, a Wendigo, a Jack Frost ;P (so Michael being like God, does this mean that God is also from snow ? lol, maybe it's Hel then ;D) ? Not to mention that he is usually shown having blond-golden hair... not to mention him being known as protector, being made of snow doesn't really allow that much :p, if it was ice maybe, but snow... strange ;P. I guess that only shows how various cultures influence such things . I can see were they got Gabriel made of fire, since he supposedly does a lot of burning the trash so to speak, lots' of killing and annihilating...

    Metatron is also often shown as being the most important Angel, since he is the "Voice of God".



  10. #10
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Well, I have seen Michael being pictured with a water element, but that was in accordance with his cleansing powers, I think ;p ? Still, made of snow... that's a bit strange :p, I mean doesn't this make him into a Snowman, a Wendigo, a Jack Frost ;P (so Michael being like God, does this mean that God is also from snow ? lol, maybe it's Hel then ;D) ? Not to mention that he is usually shown having blond-golden hair... not to mention him being known as protector, being made of snow doesn't really allow that much :p, if it was ice maybe, but snow... strange ;P. I guess that only shows how various cultures influence such things .
    Well, that's how the Jewish tradition describes them, and they kind of make a point that 'though they stand near one another they do not injure one another, thus indicating the power of God to "make peace in His high places"'. Of course.

    I also read somewhere that it was turned the other way around in the Christian faith so generally Gabriel is the ice angel and Michael the fire angel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I can see were they got Gabriel made of fire, since he supposedly does a lot of burning the trash so to speak, lots' of killing and annihilating...
    Uhuh, yup. Offed Egyptian firstborns, Sodom and Gomorra, and God knows (no pun intended) what else. I got kind of fascinated by how he was depicted in the movie The Prophecy btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Metatron is also often shown as being the most important Angel, since he is the "Voice of God".
    I had to google Metatron. Angel of life, scribe of heaven, huh? Strange that I had never heard of him; after watching The Prophecy I did some research on angels and Zoroastrianism but I don't think I ever stumbled upon that name. Seems he was only present in the Rabbinic text of Judaism.

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