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  1. #121
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    In reading Naruto I never got much of a sense for the Senju being special in terms of physical traits, save for a few of them like Hashirama. They were skilled warriors, but in the era before the village, the Senju did not dominate and suppress other clans in spite of constant warring. To me the Uchiha and Uzumaki were the only direct descendants of the sage who kept bloodline limits.

    I think the reason for the above is that the Senju probably freely intermarried, and only rarely did a power like Hashirama show up. Strangely enough you'd have thought that Hashirama marrying a fullblood Uzumaki would produce offspring who were pure Beasts, but it didn't completely work like that.

    It is possible that Kishimoto never thought this through from the begining, but he was making it up as he went. It is doubtless the case that this Manga is modeled after feudal Japan, and clans were not neccessarily blood related for the most part, although in Naruto some clans were obviously blood related, like The Uchiha, The Uzumaki, The Akimichi clans.

    I think the dissappearance of the Senju Clan is simply a result of disbandment. They were never strongly blood related to start with, and in disbanding they married other clans, and became absorbed into those other clans.

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  2. #122
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    We also have to take in consideration that both clan were mercenaries, When Hashirama took control, we don't know the amount of people left from all the fighting, and the Senju were most likely less prideful when it goes about breeding with other clans and there numbers were impacted. The Uzumkai clan... I'm starting to wonder if they are the true direct descendant of the sage, from the younger son. If that's the case Naruto would be only half that. I also wonder once we get the new chapter if by using Sage Mode Naruto can fill Kurama's Missing Power Gap, and keep on fighting for now.

  3. #123
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    my theory about what became of the senjuu is some intermarried while most others were killed in war. Wars that Madara probably had a hand in, using shape shifted zetsu's infiltrating various shinobi villages.

    those fake chapters were amusing and for the next two weeks they'll have to do. They are entertaining in their own way but they only end up making me want the real thing that much more.

  4. #124
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    Namikaze will have an impact to all of this. I think.


    Just throwing it out there 'coz of the coolness of the 4th Hokage. lol

  5. #125
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Take the Uzumakis for example. Before his mother revealed their history, we could make no accurate assumptions. Before Kushina told of the Uzumaki and The Village Hidden in The Whirlpools and their signature red hair, life force, and sealing techniques, all the things that are said about the Senju, could easily apply here. The only difference is what's established in their history books. You can't be the top ninja in history, and not be special in some sense with all the powerful ninja that existed in that time period.

    From what we know, the manga has praised the Uchiha since part one. Therefore, we can infer that if a group of ninja are actually stronger than them, they can't be mere fodder ninja in the nonexistent background. Hashirama is a special breed of ninja. I don't use him as the basis for my explanation. It is the reason Kishimito gave them that namesake, that I have a little ammunition. While other clans focused on one style and technique, the Senju were diverse in all fields, according to their nickname which later became their surname, Senju. How could they not be if they were superior to another clan who was revered for being well versed in all forms of combat.


    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/625/7 In this picture, there are an equal amount of Senju in comparison to Uchiha after the war between them ceased. I hear you guys when you say they probably disbanded in honor of the village, I do, but other than their disappearing act, what moment made you think that this one and only clan in known history decided to abandon the name? I mean they were so powerful, their only rivals began to abandon their clan and join theirs. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/624/14


    So we know they didn't all join the Uchiha when the village was formed, given theirs not a trace of that line in the Uchiha in any era, so we must look at the moment talk around the country circulated. So I started from the first time this was mentioned onward. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/625/10 I could find nothing that would suggest that they disbanded as a token to becoming one people. Especially because you know every other clan form the hidden leaf, other than the Senju, Uchiha, and maybe Shimura are still around today in some form.

    Clans in Naruto don't quite operate the same way they do in reality. All clans were formed under the basis of a style or series of techniques, exclusive to those people. They didn't allow outsiders to join for fear of a perversion of their style or technique, and the possibility that it could be used against them. We could argue that other clans are no more because they mixed in with other clans, and also argue that clans like that we know little about like the Hagoromo clan, in fact had no special techniques, and it was just a surname: but only on the basis that we don't know what happened to this clan. I do believe people married outside the clan from time to time of course, but instead of fusing, they became close allies, like the Yamanaka, Nara, and Akimichi clans. They were and are very close, but still individually separate, and specialize in different aspects and ninjutsu.


    I could accept all of your theories if it wasn't for their dominance. If you put all of these individuals in other clans, they should still stand out as oddballs due to power differences. Instead, after Obito initiated the attack on the leaf, The Uchiha ninja were the strongest without question. So even if they mingled, where are all of these powerful ninja today? Every uchiha who is an established character is leaps and bounds ahead of most ninja in the entire story. Why is this the case, if the superior Senju are integrated into other clans of the leaf? I feel that even if there was no indefinite defining characteristic, they were the strongest in history for a reason.

    I heard someone say that it was it was probably the Uzumaki who were the direct descendants of the sage, due to their raw life force. The only reason I say different is because it was said that the Uchiha and Senju were the direct descendents of the two brothers. Though in part, it is correct to some degree because of the Uzumaki's distant relation to the Senju.

    The problem with them not being "special" like some of you theorize, is because the Uchiha clan is special, for the exact same reason that the Senju is. The reason both of them have an actual boodline is because they are direct descendants of the two brothers. That is why, the Senju clan is not just a collection of random powerful ninja. They are an actual bloodline, just like the Uchiha, are an actual bloodline. So as a powerful bloodline, clan mingling or not, they can't just disappear and not be recognized. That's why I don't think either of the clans exist anymore in any way or form in the modern leaf village. We also know how every major character brought back by edo tensei perished, excluding the long time clan leader, Hashirama.

    I really believe we are missing a vital piece, and while I'm sure Kishimoto thought nothing of this in the early days of Naruto, I don't think he has forgotten the Senju, or of giving Hashirama a death.





    On another subject concerning Kishimoto not thinking of this early in...Did you guys here his recent comments at Naruto Jump Fiesta 2014? "Kishimoto-sensei addressed curiosity on whether Madara can be defeated. He responded that while he did make him really strong, Madara has to be defeated somehow otherwise the story won’t be able to progress. He continued by saying that he has to figure out how to defeat Madara and that he’ll have to think it over with his editor."

    There have been comments that say that there is a chance of their being a little mistranslation, but all the same...I have trouble believing it to a degree, even though multiple sites who participated in the event back the story. I do kind've feel he may be playing some of this by ear, and in response to fan outcry, but that's a pretty major part of the story. You don't write someone like Madara back into the script without a believable and satisfying way for him to go down. I had always heard that since part 1, the ending of the story has been etched in stone, and that it is not changing. But I am just a liiiiiittle concerned about some of his actions lately. I really believe that Sasuke declaring he'd become hokage was planned from the start (especially since he said hed explain further at the recent event as well) but to entertain the idea that he really had no way of defeating the all powerful Madara? Seven or so months ago I would have perished the thought, but now...I feel there is a 20% chance there is some truth to this, and that is in part, a reason for this break.

  6. #126
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    If you think about it... what if Hashirama is actually Half Uzumaki?

  7. #127
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Jamfae.

    Agree with just about everything you said, but i still think the Senju Disbanded, and diluted themselves through intermarriage. Else:

    1) Where are they Now? Nowhere to be found.
    2) Using Naruto as example, he is blond, not red haired, he has no special abilities except for unusually strong Chakra, However Sasuke who is Uchiha has almost as much chakra as Naruto (established in early chapters) , even though Naruto is half Uzumaki and partially probably Senju too.

    I think Both Uchiha and Senju can be watered down over time.

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  8. #128
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    If that's the case then Madara is a watered down version of the sage. I still have a feeling Hashirama is part Uzumaki.

  9. #129
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Logic View Post
    If that's the case then Madara is a watered down version of the sage. I still have a feeling Hashirama is part Uzumaki.
    Good Point. That would make sense given my own arguments, especially if Naruto and Sasuke can surpass both Hashirama and Madara. However, as the Juubi's jinchuuriki, it might not matter much in terms of power, since the Sage's power came from the Juubi originally.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #130
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    True, he might of incorporated cells/chakra from the Juubi also. Also Madara awaken the Rinnegan... I wonder if by killing his best friend "Hashirama" or Assassinating him some how awaken the Rinnegan, or maybe Madara true drive is also a women? Maybe Madara was actually in love with Mito.... Wouldn't that be freaky.

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